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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #126
Sideline
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this is what I'm wondering too. Like I said above, he's the roster D I'd most like to move to bring in a forward. But I have no idea what kind of player he can bring back. He's certainly no Whitney or Goose. To get the type of forward we need, it's going to need to be Niskanen +
Niskanen + Kennedy + 1st = Oduya + Bergfors + 1st.

Dare we dream of Perry?

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #127
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I can see that. The question is: What's his value? What type of deal?

EDIT: Here's what Boychuk does. He let's you ask 'Value of Kennedy + Niskanen' in the trade forum.
It's hard to say. I would of never guessed GoGo would land Neal.

Hopefully Shero packages up some nice assets with him, if he decides Nisky is the odd man out.

Despres could go back to bonehead Bob and this convo is moot.

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
this is what I'm wondering too. Like I said above, he's the roster D I'd most like to move to bring in a forward. But I have no idea what kind of player he can bring back. He's certainly no Whitney or Goose. To get the type of forward we need, it's going to need to be Niskanen +
I don't know what can be pulled off, but I don't want nisky traded for a hope player. It better be for an established guy. Nisky is a guy you keep around.

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #129
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But, but, but, we won today, and Sid going god mode (like Geno before at times or Flower standing on his head to steal one at times) really should do nothing to make you wonder if we're talking about a real or false sense of security here.

As I said, I told RRP before the NYI game let's see at the 15 game mark. I even voted it after. 7 games to go. We'll see if it's a roller coaster or a series of improvements . . . personally, I'm voting that certain players will go god mode enough to create the usual false sense of security for the playoffs. Eh, we'll see. I feel better about where the Pens are, but not good.
The God mode does bail us out quite a bit at times and I think maybe in the coaches' minds... if we play our system and Sid or Geno or Neal has a ridiculous goal to put us over the top, the "system worked". I mean... all hockey systems have some randomness to them because of the nature of the puck and ice and the rest, but what I hate most about our system is how easily we give up puck control in the offensive zone the last year or two. It ****ing drives me nuts.

We should be able to be a good puck possession team without solely relying on get-it-deep-and-cycle type game. That should be part of it, but currently it's all of it. I just think we have enough skill even without making a trade, that we should be better at controlling the puck / moving the puck in places other than 10 feet from the net.

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02-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
It's hard to say. I would of never guessed GoGo would land Neal.

Hopefully Shero packages up some nice assets with him, if he decides Nisky is the odd man out.

Despres could go back to bonehead Bob and this convo is moot.
Let me say this: IF Shero parlays Nisky (with TK will be fine) into another guy who actually could play in the top six, then that's some return for Gologski.

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02-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #131
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I relate Niskanen to the days of the Scud missle Scuderi, he's not going to do any thing flashy, but he's solid defensively and would be missed if moved.
we aren't going to get the kind of winger we want without trading away a player that will be missed. That said, I think Niskanen will be on our 3rd pairing again by the time the playoffs roll around if Despres keeps improving. And I really liked the size we had on that third pairing today if Bortuzzo can keep playing well.

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02-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #132
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The God mode does bail us out quite a bit at times and I think maybe in the coaches' minds... if we play our system and Sid or Geno or Neal has a ridiculous goal to put us over the top, the "system worked". I mean... all hockey systems have some randomness to them because of the nature of the puck and ice and the rest, but what I hate most about our system is how easily we give up puck control in the offensive zone the last year or two. It ****ing drives me nuts.

We should be able to be a good puck possession team without solely relying on get-it-deep-and-cycle type game. That should be part of it, but currently it's all of it. I just think we have enough skill even without making a trade, that we should be better at controlling the puck / moving the puck in places other than 10 feet from the net.
I'm happy with the defense, but Crosby masked the problems upfront today. It's worrisome because he and Malkin may fool Shero into thinking the top six is just dandy.

The PP... Is Jesus still playing?

TK + 1st for Jesus?

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02-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #133
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I don't know what can be pulled off, but I don't want nisky traded for a hope player. It better be for an established guy. Nisky is a guy you keep around.
agreed. I really hope we aren't targeting reclamation type guys in general.

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02-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #134
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Malkin and Neal have tunnel vision locating each other?
They can find each other just fine, but they only look for each other at times. Hence, they have a little tunnel vision.

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02-02-2013, 03:44 PM
  #135
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Let me say this: IF Shero parlays Nisky (with TK will be fine) into another guy who actually could play in the top six, then that's some return for Gologski.
I've been watching Seto lately...

Don't like what I see. Hopefully Shero has his eyes on someone else.

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02-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #136
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I still have no clue what that gets you. Do people want TK?
I would say Yes. Depends on the team but he'd be perfect for a team looking for a 3rd liner who can chip in offensively by creating his own offense with his speed, hustle and forechecking ability. If a good team is playing flat, he cna help them out in terms of providing energy and spark.

On our 3rd line, he's useful. On the top 6, he's a black-hole. Its no secret.

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02-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #137
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The God mode does bail us out quite a bit at times and I think maybe in the coaches' minds... if we play our system and Sid or Geno or Neal has a ridiculous goal to put us over the top, the "system worked". I mean... all hockey systems have some randomness to them because of the nature of the puck and ice and the rest, but what I hate most about our system is how easily we give up puck control in the offensive zone the last year or two. It ****ing drives me nuts.

We should be able to be a good puck possession team without solely relying on get-it-deep-and-cycle type game. That should be part of it, but currently it's all of it. I just think we have enough skill even without making a trade, that we should be better at controlling the puck / moving the puck in places other than 10 feet from the net.
This is the part that really makes me wonder. Remember last season. Sid goes out again. The team is on a five or six game losing streak going to FLA. Captain article where the team rallies, nice win at FLA, go into TB and take a sweet, deserved 3-0 lead into the 3rd. You see all the nice, positive steps. Then, bang, in five minutes, it's gone. 3-3. And, Geno starts a three month god mode run that disguises a lot. Then Sid comes back. It's even crazier for 2-3 games. Then, the wheels pretty much come off.

Season starts. Two really nice wins. Then, it's a 5 game train wreck. A meh win against NYR. A nice win against NJ (driven by team emotion and Sid going god).

I just don't see the reason to be secure. IF I saw something new (and intelligent) in the PP and/or IF I saw varied breakouts designed to create options and provide puck support, THEN I actually might feel reason to be encouraged.

This team has too much top end talent not to make the playoffs. I'm still waiting for a sign that it has the coaching to go far from there.

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02-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Niskanen + Kennedy + 1st = Oduya + Bergfors + 1st.

Dare we dream of Perry?
throw in a d prospect if that's a possible trade. no hesitation.

now we need the ducks to stop winning so many games.

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02-02-2013, 03:47 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I'm happy with the defense, but Crosby masked the problems upfront today. It's worrisome because he and Malkin may fool Shero into thinking the top six is just dandy.

The PP... Is Jesus still playing?

TK + 1st for Jesus?
You really think Jesus wouldn't play below himself on a Bylsma coached PP?

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02-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #140
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They can find each other just fine, but they only look for each other at times. Hence, they have a little tunnel vision.
Yeah, I've been thinking that to myself watching Geno pulling up and hitting trailing defensemen all season instead of driving the net/shooting.

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02-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #141
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I've been watching Seto lately...

Don't like what I see. Hopefully Shero has his eyes on someone else.
Putting Seto with Sid and Boychuk could be a nice treat to watch. Seto on the left side as a trigger man would open up our PP.

We can them move Dupuis to play with Sutter and Cooke. Another Win-Win.

TK would have to be moved for Seto in order to make it beneficial for us. Minny would save $$$ in the process too but I think they want to free up a spot for Zucker or Coyle on the 2nd line if they would have to ship out Seto. Tehy also have a logjam on D so one of our D for Seto is not possible unless he's waiver exempt this year and can be sent down to Houston with being prone to waivers.

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02-02-2013, 03:50 PM
  #142
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we aren't going to get the kind of winger we want without trading away a player that will be missed. That said, I think Niskanen will be on our 3rd pairing again by the time the playoffs roll around if Despres keeps improving. And I really liked the size we had on that third pairing today if Bortuzzo can keep playing well.
Sure, but as much as people individually critisized Gill and Scud, together they were our shutdown pair, I can see Niskanen filling that type of roll on a shutdown pair.

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02-02-2013, 03:52 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Niskanen + Kennedy + 1st = Oduya + Bergfors + 1st.

Dare we dream of Perry?
Honestly I think that people think a little too much of Kennedy. Third line grinder who can seem to find the net does not have alot of trade value.

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02-02-2013, 03:53 PM
  #144
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I still say Niskanen is a definite upgrade for the Blues. Especially with how he's proven to play well with #1 D-men. And can man a PP unit. He fits the description of what they're looking for. Add in TK to help replace their depth. And a prospect like Harrington who bolsters their D pipeline.

Snag a winger from them for that. Ideally Stewart.

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02-02-2013, 03:54 PM
  #145
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Sure, but as much as people individually critisized Gill and Scud, together they were our shutdown pair, I can see Niskanen filling that type of roll on a shutdown pair.
I think Bort-Engo has a lot more similarity to Gil Scuds than Niskanen ever will.

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02-02-2013, 03:55 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
The God mode does bail us out quite a bit at times and I think maybe in the coaches' minds... if we play our system and Sid or Geno or Neal has a ridiculous goal to put us over the top, the "system worked". I mean... all hockey systems have some randomness to them because of the nature of the puck and ice and the rest, but what I hate most about our system is how easily we give up puck control in the offensive zone the last year or two. It ****ing drives me nuts.

We should be able to be a good puck possession team without solely relying on get-it-deep-and-cycle type game. That should be part of it, but currently it's all of it. I just think we have enough skill even without making a trade, that we should be better at controlling the puck / moving the puck in places other than 10 feet from the net.
If you actually think we have enough skill without a trade, then I don't even know why I bother coming around here anymore.

Do you not notice Dupuis and Kunitz butcher every pass that comes there way? Do you not see instances where Kunitz has Sid for a clear break and decides to put his head down and fire? Do you not see where Sid is again wide open as Exile points out earlier, and it takes Dupuis forever to even realize he's there?

Straight line players can only play one way. "Controlling the puck and moving the puck" involves actual skill and vision. There's no scheme where Pascal Dupuis is able to fend off a defender, or look one off and make a 5 foot pass. And there certainly isn't one where Dupuis is the recipient of a pass like that and will be able to take anyone on 1 on 1. If you truly believe there's another way for these guys to play hockey, then I'm sorry but you don't understand what you're watching.

And yes, your best players playing like your best players, especially when they take up about 1/4 of your cap space which eliminates vital depth, will win you games. It's not a novel concept.

Tampa will not win if St.Louis and Stamkos aren't playing up to their capabilities.
Chicago will not win without Kane and Toews doing the same
Vancouver with the twins
Philly without Giroux and Briere

..................................................

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02-02-2013, 03:55 PM
  #147
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I still say Niskanen is a definite upgrade for the Blues. Especially with how he's proven to play well with #1 D-men. And can man a PP unit. He fits the description of what they're looking for. Add in TK to help replace their depth. And a prospect like Harrington who bolsters their D pipeline.

Snag a winger from them for that. Ideally Stewart.
I was thinking the same. Niskanen seems to be at his best when he's supporting a great d-man as his partner.

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02-02-2013, 03:58 PM
  #148
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I was thinking the same. Niskanen seems to be at his best when he's supporting a great d-man as his partner.
I like everything but including Harrington. We all love what he brings and he'd be ideal for this team. If I had to choose, I'd rather give Maatta than Harrington.

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02-02-2013, 04:01 PM
  #149
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Mirasty gave him a beat down though.

He will stick up for his team and doesn't hesitate to throw down, but I don't think he will intimidate people like Engo.

Bort is just an all around asset.
He actually got a narrow win/draw if anything. Engelland is a far better fighter than Bortuzzo.

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02-02-2013, 04:02 PM
  #150
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I like everything but including Harrington. We all love what he brings and he'd be ideal for this team. If I had to choose, I'd rather give Maatta than Harrington.
I was mostly talking about Niskanen being a good fit with the Blues. I am terrible at analyzing trade value and I have never watched any of our prospects play if it wasn't with the Penguins. So I really can't comment on all that extra stuff other than Niskanen himself probably being a good player for the Blues.

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