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Old
02-02-2013, 10:46 PM
  #351
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Something tells me the Pens are really waiting on Bennett this year. I think that when he's healthy and 100% he'll get a call up.

Just another name to throw in the mix is Tanguay.

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Old
02-02-2013, 10:52 PM
  #352
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I missed this game, was out, but despite not getting on the scoresheet Despres looked mighty effective out there.

+3, 1 SOG, 3 hits, 2 blocked shots, and 1 takeaway. All and all, a good game for him reading it on text. But I rather hear how he looked...

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02-02-2013, 10:54 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
No, because he's another headcase that could go south at the drop of a hat.

Besides, I don't think St.Louis has any right to ask for anything more than a draft choice for him at this point in time. If he continues to score and goes back on a 1 goal every 2 games or so pace, I guess you revisit it. But right now, it wouldn't be worth it.

People have scoffed at the idea because they think the Jets wouldn't get rid of him, but Wheeler is the PERFECT option. Jets badly need defense and they're not exactly stocked on the farm.
he's not worth trading for unless he's scoring at a 40 goal in a full season pace? That's a bit ridiculous.

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02-02-2013, 10:54 PM
  #354
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I really, really, REALLY like Nisky. It's going to upset me if he wears another uniform, just like it's still pissing me off that Srait is with the Isles.

Unless Shero gets floored by an offer, you hold on. Nisky's one of those guys who can be a clear #4, while underwhelming enough that I don't see any scenario where his salary ever goes past 3m or 3.25m. These are the guys you hold on to.

I'm honestly conflicted here. I'd be willing to tread water this year and not give up anything (unless it's Martin, who's been great) and go for a winger in FA while making due with what we have.

Was anyone watching the Carolina game? 'Canes were trailing and had the extra man on, and J. Staal wasn't on the ice. Yikes...
This is crazy, we finally found good young, solid top 4 defensman and people want to trade him. he is only a few years older than unproven prospects...

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02-02-2013, 10:56 PM
  #355
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This is crazy, we finally found good young, solid top 4 defensman and people want to trade him. he is only a few years older than unproven prospects...
we need another forward more than we need a number 4 d-man. Its nothing against Nisky.

And its not that we want to trade him. We just know we probably aren't getting the kind of forward help we need without trading away something we don't want to trade.

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02-02-2013, 11:01 PM
  #356
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Bennett will play in the fourth line under Bylsma's system. It takes awhile to learn to stand at the blue line and tip in pucks.

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02-02-2013, 11:09 PM
  #357
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he's not worth trading for unless he's scoring at a 40 goal in a full season pace? That's a bit ridiculous.
You're taking what I said a little too far.

As of right now? No way I'd give St. Louis a #4 D AND a prospect for Stewart. He has a history of being a headcase and the last thing I want is to lose two valuable defensive assets for him.

As the season goes on and he continues to look like he's turned the page, then yes, you consider it.

Nisky and a prospect for Chris Stewart would be a fleece job right now.

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02-02-2013, 11:10 PM
  #358
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I'm diggin' Bort so far and Boychuk seems to be better on Geno's wing than Kennedy at least.

random weird thought: i thought that #41 for Bortuzzo was weird, decided to google him and see what number(s) he's worn at different levels, apparently he's worn 21 in Kitchner and 15 in WBS. guess he just likes to wear goofy numbers for stay at home defensemen.

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02-02-2013, 11:23 PM
  #359
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Great game by everyone. But I'm still not impressed by Bortuzzo. He seems like a spaz who's kinda clueless out there - like a giant Ian Moran. Yes, we're all excited because he scored and we won, but he's not very good IMHO.

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02-02-2013, 11:28 PM
  #360
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Great game by everyone. But I'm still not impressed by Bortuzzo. He seems like a spaz who's kinda clueless out there - like a giant Ian Moran. Yes, we're all excited because he scored and we won, but he's not very good IMHO.
The kid has played 8 NHL games. Give it some time.

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02-02-2013, 11:33 PM
  #361
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The kid has played 8 NHL games. Give it some time.
True. Just curious why everyone is so impressed, I really haven't seen anything impressive. I definitely hope he ends up being a stud though.

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02-02-2013, 11:51 PM
  #362
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True. Just curious why everyone is so impressed, I really haven't seen anything impressive. I definitely hope he ends up being a stud though.
watch how few opposing forwards are in the crease while he's on the ice.

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02-03-2013, 12:13 AM
  #363
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True. Just curious why everyone is so impressed, I really haven't seen anything impressive. I definitely hope he ends up being a stud though.
A stud in what sense?

He was out there playing his role well, angling fwds to the wall, kept his stick extended and held the blueline (forcing several offsides with his reach), held his gaps, kept his crease clear and boxed out well, made nice outlets and only had two bad reads all game.

Not sure what else you want from a guy who hasn't even played ten games in the league and projects to be a shutdown blueliner.

If you expect him to look like Letang and do a Crazy Ivan at mid ice, you will continue to be disappointed.

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02-03-2013, 12:17 AM
  #364
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If anything I could see Borts making Niskanen into trade bait. A team like EDM might pay a pretty nice price for Nisky + Prospect / pick.
The thing about Niksy is that trading him now could be a bit of a case of "selling low". Yes, he has raised his stock since we got him, but he has the potential to raise it significantly more by the time the summer rolls around or sometime next season if he continues his upward climb.

More importantly, we can't afford to trade Nisky right now. I love Despres size and some of his offensive creativity, but with all the +++'s he's been getting around here, people are still missing the fact that he makes a lot of turnovers defensively. It may not be a huge deal now, but I don't see Simon as a guy who is going to have an extremely quick learning curve (i.e. being able to become mistake-free within his first season) and could get really eaten alive come playoff time.

I'm sorry, but I just do not feel comfortable with Despres being a major fixture of our top-6, and certainly not as a top-pairing Dman with Letang, for a Stanly Cup run for THIS season. (And this is especially the case with everyone else in our top 6, including Nisky, Engo & Bort playing so well).


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- the Devils forecheck was a very good test for the young blueliners and the kids held their own.

- I think people got a glimpse of why I love Bort. He was using his size and reach well today, and you saw the offensive aspect he can bring, with the pass up to Kunitz and the goal.

He got caught rubbing out the wrong guy which lead to a 2-1, but that was his only big mistake.

- Despres looked solid again. Despres is playing mean and I love it. Bort and Despres using their big bodies is such a beautiful thing to see. Both are making fwds pay for being around the net.

Watching Despres playing with Gubranson in more of a shutdown role and playing on the left side (as opposed to playing the right side and more offensive role like he did in Saint John), I always envisioned him as better on that side, and that was the first time he played more of a defense-first and physical role. Since then, I started to see him in that light (if he remains with the Pens) and as an eventual replacement for Orpik in that regard in the top-6. I remember getting reamed when I first said a year or two ago, but Bylsma is seeing this too and clearly looks like this will be his bread & butter, with some nice puck movement and a bit of offense sprinkled in.

But if he's going to really stick in the top-4 long term, he's going to have to make less mistakes. And while I am very excited about his long-term potential if he can do this, I just really think that unless he can signficantly elevate his game over the next month that Nisky is out, he may be destined back for WBS.

Bortuzzo, on the other hand, will ascend very quickly and whatever little mistakes he's making now will vanish for the most part if he stays in the line-up, and simply gets used to playing and shakes the rust of not playing out of his system. This guy is fully ready and will be more consistent. So I wouldn't get too woried about things like you saw today just yet. He looked a whole lot better today than he did against NYR, and that was just after one game.


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Jiggy, just like Despres, playing Bort now is the type of decision that is about April. Speaking of Despres, if this mean streak is a sign of what's to come as he gets even more confident out there, then he's going to be special (that always was the knock on him, no?). I'm not sure Bort gets the chance when Nisky returns, because he only gets it over Engo.

No, the big knock on Despres is how he will look great on some shifts -- or even within part of a shift -- and then make brutal giveaways that, thankfully this far, have not cost us. When I look at Despres, I see a guy who may need a fair bit more time (like most of the rest of this season in WBS and a really strong training camp where he will need to outplay guys like Dumoulin & Harrington) before he is ready to be put out as a legit top-4 or top-2 guy with Letang -- especially for the playoffs. I'm still worried his turnovers could cost us big come playoff time.

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02-03-2013, 12:30 AM
  #365
Mr Jiggyfly
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The thing about Niksy is that trading him now could be a bit of a case of "selling low". Yes, he has raised his stock since we got him, but he has the potential to raise it significantly more by the time the summer rolls around or sometime next season if he continues his upward climb.

More importantly, we can't afford to trade Nisky right now. I love Despres size and some of his offensive creativity, but with all the +++'s he's been getting around here, people are still missing the fact that he makes a lot of turnovers defensively. It may not be a huge deal now, but I don't see Simon as a guy who is going to have an extremely quick learning curve (i.e. being able to become mistake-free within his first season) and could get really eaten alive come playoff time.

I'm sorry, but I just do not feel comfortable with Despres being a major fixture of our top-6, and certainly not as a top-pairing Dman with Letang, for a Stanly Cup run for THIS season. (And this is especially the case with everyone else in our top 6, including Nisky, Engo & Bort playing so well).
DB essentially said he is done with the A. So I highly doubt he goes back.

Sending Despres back would stagnate his growth. Letang still makes bonehead plays and probably always will.

Despres is using the boards and outleting the puck faster than I ever saw him in the A or Jrs. He is learning you can't always skate the puck out of danger, a lesson he didn't seem to learn in the A.

Playing agt. inferior talent makes him think he can do things he shouldn't be doing. Now he is learning how fast NHL players close and how quickly he needs to move the puck.

Today his big mistakes came when he got caught pinching. Each game he is learning, but he is being as physical as I have ever seen him and making quick decisions.

He is going to have bad games, people just need to deal with it.

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02-03-2013, 12:31 AM
  #366
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Lol it looks like disco dan just posted above. I will never understand how you can assess that because a young player looks great on one shift then makes a turnover that you should reduce his ice time or send him to WBS. The kids need the icetime in the NHL to make mistakes and learn from them. A lot of the turnovers come from the fact that young guys could make some of the passes at other levels that are turnovers now. This is why they need time in the NHL to figure out what they can and cannot do against this level of competition. Despres is a young guy that is ready for the NHL and needs to be given room to make some mistakes and learn.

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02-03-2013, 12:33 AM
  #367
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Credit where it is due time.

We played a team that went to the finals last year and had yet to lose in regulation this season. A team that under DeBoer has gotten one of the leagues most efficient forecheks going.... and defensively we played just about the best game we've had for years. They had NOTHING 5 on 5.

Hard to say that Fleury was tested, but when he was, most the time he looked real good and that final save on Clarkson was a show of the swagger he has when he feels good about himself. The Devils for some reason were really dropping bombs on the dump ins, and that contributed to Fleury rarely getting a handle on them.... which is good. Anyway, a nice game from Flower.

Also - after the first period where we had too many of those sainted strechpasses picked off on the wall, we saw our D-men mix it up more. Particularly our young guys (many quality outlets by Despres through the middle as well as short chips for Sid or Geno when they come down low to support, and who can forget Bort skating to the right with all of the Devils moving over in anticipation of a pass up the wall only for Bort put it on the tape of a wide open Kunitz on the left wing in the second). Brooks, Martin and Engelland are more religious about it (still very good games from the former two), but the Orpik and Martin pairing this time also had more patience playing it back and forth between themselves to avoid pressure.
Mixing it up meant (IMO) greatly contributed to much better breakouts in the second and third periods, and helped us keep NJD guessing and establish ourselves in their zone. Without a good breakout, you don't create offense 5 on 5 in any other way than exploiting turnovers.

As far as our offense, this was also a game of before and after the Sid takeover. In the second period he started looking like our Captain again.... and it obviously matters. I want to see us build on what we showed with our breakouts in the last two periods before I really credit Bylsma for this (I REALLY hope he has a share in that), because obviously the Devils also had to open up after the fortuitous second goal we got, and more so after we restored the 2 goal lead early in the third. In the end 5-1 gives a good indication of how much better we were than the Devils overall in this game, but it shouldn't give us the idea that we were particularly refined on offense.

Must say: the 4th line had a tremendous game.

Only negatives for me were the obvious permanent downer and momentum killer that is our PP. There are quite a few things wrong with it but Letang is the main issue (as good as he looked 5 on 5). Also, with Geno on the point Letang cannot roam. He has to be the guy who is there to cover for our forwards, or we are going to lead the league in shorties against again.
1 minute for the first unit is one thing. 1.15 is kinda OK also for Sid and Malkin.... but 1.45/2 minutes is just too much. They are not effective at the end of it, it is a major SH risk and it screws with our shift rotation.

Player minus: Kennedy gets a downer in this one for his first period alone. Pathetic. Kunitz deserves one for the same period, but it is hard to give it to him when he follows up with the production he did, and in the third period he was legit playing well. Lets hope he turned a corner, ey?

Boychuk.... hmmm.... lots of life. More physically engaged than what I'd expected from commentary on him here. I need to see more before I have an opinion, but it was a rather encouraging first impression.

Most significant takeaway: We have played with this group of D-men for two games and it has been some of the very best defensive performances we've had for years. And that's without the youngsters having even gotten dry behind the ears.
We have a starting goalie, if he stays the starter, who needs to be insulated in front of goal and have his rebounds cleared. You are not getting these things if you don't have genuine size and physicality back there. We have that now more so than at any other time this century.
Don't mess with it. Just like the PP, a defense is more about complementarity than it is individual ability. Finally we've added some pieces many of us have been screaming for as a way to address our biggest weaknesses defensively.

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02-03-2013, 12:37 AM
  #368
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Great game by everyone. But I'm still not impressed by Bortuzzo. He seems like a spaz who's kinda clueless out there - like a giant Ian Moran. Yes, we're all excited because he scored and we won, but he's not very good IMHO.
I'll give you the point that he looks ungainly but, to be honest, I couldn't care what he looks like so long as he performs. I was pretty happy with what I saw from him today.

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02-03-2013, 12:40 AM
  #369
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DB essentially said he is done with the A. So I highly doubt he goes back.

Sending Despres back would stagnate his growth. Letang still makes bonehead plays and probably always will.

Despres is using the boards and outleting the puck faster than I ever saw him in the A or Jrs. He is learning you can't always skate the puck out of danger, a lesson he didn't seem to learn in the A.

Playing agt. inferior talent makes him think he can do things he shouldn't be doing. Now he is learning how fast NHL players close and how quickly he needs to move the puck.

Today his big mistakes came when he got caught pinching. Each game he is learning, but he is being as physical as I have ever seen him and making quick decisions.

He is going to have bad games, people just need to deal with it.
We all know it'll be a numbers game, and the fact is he's the only one who's able to be sent down without having to go through waivers. This isn't an if, it's a when. I'm still seeing them making a move soon in these coming weeks.

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02-03-2013, 12:45 AM
  #370
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We all know it'll be a numbers game, and the fact is he's the only one who's able to be sent down without having to go through waivers. This isn't an if, it's a when. I'm still seeing them making a move soon in these coming weeks.
I think it's absolutely insane if Despres gets sent down just so Lovejoy can keep his spot on the roster. With Niskanen out, Despres and Bortuzzo should be in every single night. Even when Niskanen returns, Bortuzzo, Despres, and Engelland should rotate as the 5/6/7 defensemen. Lovejoy should not even be an option at this point.

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02-03-2013, 12:47 AM
  #371
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We all know it'll be a numbers game, and the fact is he's the only one who's able to be sent down without having to go through waivers. This isn't an if, it's a when. I'm still seeing them making a move soon in these coming weeks.
If you want to retard the growth of your fine young blueliner, sure, you send him back to the A.

If not, you put Lovejoy on waivers.

It really isn't a tough call, but nothing would shock me since they exposed Strait to waivers over Lovejoy.

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02-03-2013, 01:29 AM
  #372
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We all know it'll be a numbers game, and the fact is he's the only one who's able to be sent down without having to go through waivers. This isn't an if, it's a when. I'm still seeing them making a move soon in these coming weeks.
I could be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that even players on ELC's become waiver eligible if they spend a certain amount of time on the big club? Not sure, I may have just gotten that from Eastside Hockey Manager...

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02-03-2013, 02:41 AM
  #373
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I don't see Despres going back down. They wouldn't have sacrificed Strait if they thought Despres was only going to be up here temporarily. Lovejoy was just kept as an extra body over Strait imo because he had a 1-way deal vs. Strait's 2-way deal and neither was in the plans beyond this season.

The thing I like about Bortuzzo is how well he moves for a guy his size. He looks massive out there.

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02-03-2013, 02:50 AM
  #374
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I could be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that even players on ELC's become waiver eligible if they spend a certain amount of time on the big club? Not sure, I may have just gotten that from Eastside Hockey Manager...
They do...but Despres won't eclipse that number until November or December at the earliest. Despres will be 21 at the start of next season, meaning he'd have to have 3 finished seasons on his contract (he'd have 2) and 80 NHL games played (the most he can have is 63).



I don't see Despres being sent down. With the way Shero values his defenders I fully expect it'll be a forward going when Niskanen comes back. The hope has to be that Lovejoy is set to that 8 role and not the 7 role.

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02-03-2013, 02:59 AM
  #375
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I'm going to throw myself out in the middle of the street and let you guys run over me if you wish, but I have something to say about Despres:

Despres is going to be GOOOOOD.

I don't have the fancy hockey words to tell you how or why but I know the difference between a guy who's making mental errors and a guy who doesn't have talent. You can also look at the way he's been handled and you can parse statements made by people within or around the organization. They say and do things with better prospects that they wouldn't do with others. They gave up Strait for Despres. That should tell you a lot about how the organization views Despres.


For whatever it's worth my gut is telling me that Despres is going to go to another level of performance some time in the next season or two. My gut sometimes knows what it's talking about. It was madder than hell when we traded Naslund, it recognized Scuderi as a guy who would become a quality defenseman the first time it saw him play and it likes Despres a lot. Gut says keep Despres. Keep him and play him.

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