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Old
02-02-2013, 09:39 PM
  #201
Freudian
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I don't think the captaincy is a factor here. The negotiations between Avs and O'Reilly had been going badly for well over a month when Hejduk stepped down.

It's most likely about money, term and role. The exact details we'll probably never find out.

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02-02-2013, 09:52 PM
  #202
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They were talking about ROR on Hotstove (should be on CBC.ca) and it was interesting until Weeks and Stock got into another mini fight. Stock was talking about stats and talked about Duchenes hometown contract while Weeks thought that they (Avs) were gambling on this situation. Healy was complaining about how Avs always did this from Drury to Ozolinsh. I don't remember those situations, but maybe he has a point and LaCroix is still conducting mob family business.

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02-02-2013, 09:56 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I don't think the captaincy is a factor here. The negotiations between Avs and O'Reilly had been going badly for well over a month when Hejduk stepped down.

It's most likely about money, term and role. The exact details we'll probably never find out.
I think the Avs said something degrading about ROR in negotiations. So ROR and his agent dug in at an over payment amount. The Avs have dug in at their price. Neither one wants to give.

ROR is a character guy and a proud guy. My guess is the Avs said something to offend him. And that is on the agent. That stuff isn't supposed to get to the player.

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02-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
I think the Avs said something degrading about ROR in negotiations. So ROR and his agent dug in at an over payment amount. The Avs have dug in at their price. Neither one wants to give.

ROR is a character guy and a proud guy. My guess is the Avs said something to offend him. And that is on the agent. That stuff isn't supposed to get to the player.
TPS backs up your hypothesis.

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02-02-2013, 10:12 PM
  #205
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I get it, and I appreciate the response. It just seems like there is more to this story than we fully understand.
Yeah, I agree it's weird. As others have said, i could buy this having something to do with role. However, i still file that under being something of a *****. You think Duchene got guarantees of ice time or situations with his contract? Did Duchene throw a fit over being played on the wing and with **** line mates?

You get what you earn in the NHL. O'Reilly already should know this team will give him first class minutes if he earns it - they already did. What else could he seriously be asking for?

I remain firmly in the camp of he's trying to force a trade. He doesn't think he'll ever get what he "deserves" in terms of role here (no matter what the Avs say or do). He sees the lockout, his agent convinces several other players to hold out/sign overseas, figures it's a good time to go for it.

Only he gets cut by his Russian team, the other players blink, and the Avs play hardball after some fair offers. He already convinced himself he'd end up with either more money or in a better situation, and like most professional athletes, he hates losing. So he doubles down on a long shot of the Avs getting desperate.

That's my best guess. And i think this ends with him signing and getting traded next offseason. Best guess is Winnipeg for Little and a good defenseman for O'Reilly plus one of our young defensemen.

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02-02-2013, 10:21 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
I think the Avs said something degrading about ROR in negotiations. So ROR and his agent dug in at an over payment amount. The Avs have dug in at their price. Neither one wants to give.

ROR is a character guy and a proud guy. My guess is the Avs said something to offend him. And that is on the agent. That stuff isn't supposed to get to the player.
And even if it did, grow the **** up. You have a higher opinion of yourself than your employer? WELCOME TO REALITY. Use that. Go prove it to them. And when you actually have leverage, if there's a discrepancy still, calmly use it. Don't get all butthurt and try some ill considered mutually assured destruction idiocy.

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02-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #207
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And even if it did, grow the **** up. You have a higher opinion of yourself than your employer? WELCOME TO REALITY. Use that. Go prove it to them. And when you actually have leverage, if there's a discrepancy still, calmly use it. Don't get all butthurt and try some ill considered mutually assured destruction idiocy.
Love it.

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02-02-2013, 10:34 PM
  #208
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Highly doubt it's a role issue. The guy had the most ice time among forwards last year and probably would be near the top this year had he been playing. Who knows what happened. At the end of the day, he's asking for an amount that the market says is huge overpayment and the Avs aren't willing to give in.

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02-02-2013, 10:37 PM
  #209
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Completely random but since I have no idea how to read the cyrillic characters, I realized I was reading this thread title in my head as "penne o'penne". Poor O'reilly, downgraded from NHL to KHL to HF pasta icon.

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02-02-2013, 11:14 PM
  #210
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Anyways, chances of ROR playing hockey this season. 50/50. Are you over or under?

I'm under- I'm calling it a year long lockout and this will spill into summer.

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02-02-2013, 11:19 PM
  #211
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Anyways, chances of ROR playing hockey this season. 50/50. Are you over or under?

I'm under- I'm calling it a year long lockout and this will spill into summer.
I'm calling over. I really hope both player/agent and organization are not that ridiculously stupid, but sillier things have happened.

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02-02-2013, 11:30 PM
  #212
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Anyways, chances of ROR playing hockey this season. 50/50. Are you over or under?

I'm under- I'm calling it a year long lockout and this will spill into summer.
Under, I don't believe he will play for us this year.

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02-02-2013, 11:40 PM
  #213
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How large is the difference in $ if he's willing to sit out the rest of the season and miss all of this season's salary?

At least re-sign for this year and then do the rest in the summer.

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02-03-2013, 12:20 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by avs1dacup View Post
Highly doubt it's a role issue. The guy had the most ice time among forwards last year and probably would be near the top this year had he been playing. Who knows what happened. At the end of the day, he's asking for an amount that the market says is huge overpayment and the Avs aren't willing to give in.
How important a coach perceives a player to be, versus what the organization's management perceives that player's worth to be, is often quite different.

Since we're all experts on the market... what is the going rate for players who had the most ice time amongst forwards on their team, just like you said?

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02-03-2013, 12:22 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
How important a coach perceives a player to be, versus what the organization's management perceives that player's worth to be, is often quite different.

Since we're all experts on the market... what is the going rate for players who had the most ice time amongst forwards on their team, just like you said?
The going rate is $3.5M/year.

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02-03-2013, 12:24 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
The going rate is $3.5M/year.
Thanks for posting a team's statistics without Ryan O'Reilly in them. That is extremely relevant to my reply, as clearly Ryan O'Reilly is sitting on our bench right now and averaging 0:00 TOI each night.

Edit: *Cough, cough*

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02-03-2013, 12:29 AM
  #217
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He played the most minutes on an avg team with the best player in a slump/injured throughout the year. Big deal, like I said....sign for the rest of the year at least.

If he's truly injured though then maybe Avs mgmt is just being cheap and not bothering to negotiate until they think he's healthy-ish.

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02-03-2013, 12:30 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Thanks for posting a team's statistics without Ryan O'Reilly in them. That is extremely relevant to my reply, as clearly Ryan O'Reilly is sitting on our bench right now and averaging 0:00 TOI each night.
I'm just saying getting the same offer as Duchene got isn't an insult, especially in light of the Subban/del Zotto/Kulikov signings. If anything, it's a pretty generous offer.

The market has spoken on what two year bridge deals for RFAs coming off their ELCs should be and Avs are offering some of the most lucrative ones out there.

If O'Reilly wants a long term contract, I think he is worth about $4M/year. That's right in the middle between the five year contracts given to Bergeron and Hanzal. That's exactly where O'Reilly is in ability/record. Add $250k for each extra year, so an 8 year $4.75M/year deal would be fine with me.


Last edited by Freudian: 02-03-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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02-03-2013, 12:38 AM
  #219
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I swear to God if Colorado pays this guy close to five million bucks a year I'm all but done with this franchise.

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02-03-2013, 12:44 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I'm just saying getting the same offer as Duchene got isn't an insult, especially in light of the Subban/del Zotto/Kulikov signings. If anything, it's a pretty generous offer.

The market has spoken on what two year bridge deals for RFAs coming off their ELCs should be and Avs are offering some of the most lucrative ones out there.

If O'Reilly wants a long term contract, I think he is worth about $4M/year. That's right in the middle between the five year contracts given to Bergeron and Hanzal. That's exactly where O'Reilly is in ability/record. Add $250k for each extra year, so an 8 year $4.75M/year deal would be fine with me.
The Avalanche don't.

Goodnight.

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02-03-2013, 12:48 AM
  #221
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The Avalanche don't.

Goodnight.
I don't think they like long contracts at all.

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02-03-2013, 01:10 AM
  #222
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I wish they would just trade him and be done with it already.

To Phx for Yandle or OEL.. obviously need a + to ROR.. think we can part with a goalie prospect

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02-03-2013, 01:11 AM
  #223
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I don't think it is that the Avs don't see him ever being a $4m player. They just don't feel that he has proven it yet. Last year could very well be a fluke, but he was a 4-4.5m player. The prior two years he was a 1.5m player. With only 1 good year there is a significant risk of paying him long term a 4+ salary. It is a good thing the Avs didn't lock up Svatos to one of those deals. So it is easy to understand their reluctance to a long term deal with a player that hasn't shown he can put up 50+ points consistently. If ROR wants to play here he is going to have to take a bridge deal. It is as simple as that. If he won't take that, then he has proven that the money is more important. Which is his right, but the backlash is something he will have to deal with.

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02-03-2013, 01:12 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
How important a coach perceives a player to be, versus what the organization's management perceives that player's worth to be, is often quite different.

Since we're all experts on the market... what is the going rate for players who had the most ice time amongst forwards on their team, just like you said?
Misleading question, just like the leading the team in points thing. O'reilly had a great season last year but leading the Avs in ice time and points with 55 points is absolutely needs to be taken in context - 55 points is 55 points and the Avs were an average team with one of the other main options at center slumping badly/injured. It's still one season and he should still be asked to prove that it's sustainable.

I think he's absolutely worth 4x4, and consecutively more over 5 or 6 years respectively. If the Avs are not willing to commit that at this point I don't really agree with their valuation but what can you do.

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02-03-2013, 02:34 AM
  #225
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Mark Guy, O'Reilly's agent, sent a text Saturday night saying, "We have not had any contact with the Avs in over a week."
http://m.denverpost.com/denverpost/d...l=true#display

I doubt anything will change but it's nice to hear Freidman, Healy, Maclean, and to a lesser extent LeBrun call out the Avs.

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