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Old
07-02-2006, 11:44 AM
  #26
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why isn't lars jonsson on nhl.com?
cause he never played in the NHL

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07-02-2006, 03:10 PM
  #27
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Did anyone see how the Devils played when Elias was in the lineup as opposed to when he wasn't? I didn't say sign Elias, but needless to say, just look at the facts. They ran us up and down the ice. There was no answer for them. They can be in salary cap hell all they want, they're going to have their key players back in the fold.

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07-02-2006, 03:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Did anyone see how the Devils played when Elias was in the lineup as opposed to when he wasn't? I didn't say sign Elias, but needless to say, just look at the facts. They ran us up and down the ice. There was no answer for them. They can be in salary cap hell all they want, they're going to have their key players back in the fold.
Enter Keith Primeau.

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07-02-2006, 03:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Did anyone see how the Devils played when Elias was in the lineup as opposed to when he wasn't? I didn't say sign Elias, but needless to say, just look at the facts. They ran us up and down the ice. There was no answer for them. They can be in salary cap hell all they want, they're going to have their key players back in the fold.
I got slammed for saying that was a goofy team up there... they beat the Rangers in the playoffs... who we would have beaten, and then they lost to Carolina... who we would have lost to.

They have Elias, go them... they're not that special. I'd rather avoid dishing out 5 Million on a dman that isn't worth that cash and have the space in the next few years to lock down, Pitkanen, Carter, and Richards... while also worrying about locking up Gagne this year.

Oh, yes, I think we all have the intention of offering Forsberg an extention.

Those are OUR key players. by signing any of the UFAs that we were supposedly targeting to the deals they got, we would have risked our ability to re-sign OUR key players.

Devils also have the looming contract situations of Gomez and Gionta to worry about I believe. I'm happy that Elias showed some loyalty, which we see too little of in professional sports these days... but this remains not something you can be critical of the Flyers over.

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07-02-2006, 03:19 PM
  #30
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Enter Keith Primeau.
hopefully... i still think we'd be much better off if he'd retire... major liability with his head.

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07-02-2006, 04:03 PM
  #31
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wow...

welcome to the salary cap... this team will make the playoffs.

relax.
That's far from a given at this point.

The Flyers finished 5th last season. Ottawa, Carolina, NJ and Buffalo all look to be strong again heading in to next season. Then there is Toronto, who has already made some solid additions and could certainly challenge for a top-8 spot. The Bruins added one of the best defenseman in the NHL, an excellent forward up front, and will have an older and more matured Toivonen in net. The Penguins will have Malkin and other young players inserted in their lineup, plus a more matured Crosby. Same thing with Caps and Ovechkin. As of right now, I think it would be fair to say the Flyers' playoff chances are up in the air.

The Flyers were wasted by the Sabres in the first round. It was blindingly apparent that what the Sabres were doing was far superior to what the Flyers were trying to do. If that series wasn't a crystal clear indication that the this team was not ready for the way teams are playing in the "new" NHL, I don't know what is. They were unprepared for that style of play. So what do they do? Nothing. Not only that, but they lose one of their few defenseman who can actually handle the speedier game. And yet people are saying to "relax?" Why? The fans have been "relaxed" since 1975. The Flyers are in a bad situation, and it would take a rather homeristic outlook to suggest otherwise.

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07-02-2006, 04:09 PM
  #32
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so i guess we are banking on the Flyers getting racked with serious injuries and struggling to make the playoffs. sounds logical to me.

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07-02-2006, 05:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom View Post
so i guess we are banking on the Flyers getting racked with serious injuries and struggling to make the playoffs. sounds logical to me.
?

No, we're banking on this team not being good. They have terrible depth up front and a defense that just lost arguably it's best player. Pitkanen and Johnson were really the only two capable of handling the speedier teams, and now Johnsson is gone. On paper, this team does not look good at all.

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07-02-2006, 05:35 PM
  #34
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As a Sens fan, this reminds me of Sami Salo. Great D-Man, underpaid for his contributions, injured.

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07-02-2006, 05:37 PM
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johnson flat out sucked last season before he got injured, and i don't care what anyone here tells me about it. i wouldn't have given him 5 million even if he never got injured.


good pass by clarke

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07-02-2006, 05:37 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Brad View Post
That's far from a given at this point.

The Flyers finished 5th last season. Ottawa, Carolina, NJ and Buffalo all look to be strong again heading in to next season. Then there is Toronto, who has already made some solid additions and could certainly challenge for a top-8 spot. The Bruins added one of the best defenseman in the NHL, an excellent forward up front, and will have an older and more matured Toivonen in net. The Penguins will have Malkin and other young players inserted in their lineup, plus a more matured Crosby. Same thing with Caps and Ovechkin. As of right now, I think it would be fair to say the Flyers' playoff chances are up in the air.

The Flyers were wasted by the Sabres in the first round. It was blindingly apparent that what the Sabres were doing was far superior to what the Flyers were trying to do. If that series wasn't a crystal clear indication that the this team was not ready for the way teams are playing in the "new" NHL, I don't know what is. They were unprepared for that style of play. So what do they do? Nothing. Not only that, but they lose one of their few defenseman who can actually handle the speedier game. And yet people are saying to "relax?" Why? The fans have been "relaxed" since 1975. The Flyers are in a bad situation, and it would take a rather homeristic outlook to suggest otherwise.




Ottawa is not better than they were with Corvo and without Chara, but just about any team that was a threat to do something to move up has done so and the Flyers have essentially done nothing. Clarke is going to bank on the team staying healthy and when that happens you usually get burned.

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07-02-2006, 05:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post


Ottawa is not better than they were with Corvo and without Chara, but just about any team that was a threat to do something to move up has done so and the Flyers have essentially done nothing. Clarke is going to bank on the team staying healthy and when that happens you usually get burned.
i agree we won't be amazing next year but i question what you really expected us to do. we flat out didn't have the money to waste (yes, waste) on guys like kubina and johnson. no one else really signed for our price range (< 3 million) who is any good. It's only 2 days into free agency and you can be sure some more things will happen (ie possibly moving hatcher), i just can't understand some of you that are totally over reacting

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07-02-2006, 06:04 PM
  #38
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Unfreakin believable, you know that? Every signle player that signed yesterday was extremely overpaid and it seems like everyone is completely obvlious to it. Each team has their **** they need to deal with....

Boston
Zhamnov is still on their books and contemplating retirement. They still have Murray on the books for five and Bergeron/Boyes/Sturm was their best scoring line last year... god forbid they have an injury.

Toronto
The McCabe, Kubina and Gill signings now give the Leafs the most overpaid defensive pairings in the league. Let's not forget that their no.1 goalie is now Andrew Raycroft-the twenty four year old Calder trophy winner.

Minnesota
Picked up Demitra and one hell of a question mark in Johnsson. That definately puts them over the top.

Jersey
Has everyone completely forgotten about the ****ing mess with Malakhov and Almo? Seriously. With Brodeur, Elias, Malakhov and Mogilny on the books, Jersey's roster is going to look comparable to ours. The only real difference being that their top four includes White, Martin, Rafalski and Matvichuk.... Oooooooohhhh.

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07-02-2006, 06:27 PM
  #39
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Yet, the teams you listed managed to fill holes in their roster and in many cases improve. The Flyers have done nothing but get worse, and what they had before was nowhere near good enough.

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07-02-2006, 06:36 PM
  #40
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I notice a trend here.."every defenseman is overpaid" Maybe the market value went up? Did it occur to anyone that if you want to have good defensemen you have to spend money. Hell, we spent a lot of money on a dog like Hatcher, no wonder everyone else is getting more.

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07-02-2006, 06:57 PM
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i agree we won't be amazing next year but i question what you really expected us to do. we flat out didn't have the money to waste (yes, waste) on guys like kubina and johnson. no one else really signed for our price range (< 3 million) who is any good. It's only 2 days into free agency and you can be sure some more things will happen (ie possibly moving hatcher), i just can't understand some of you that are totally over reacting
here's the problem with moving Hatcher, I will be really suprised if we get anything good. Maybe another Nolan Baumgartner type, but we're not going to move him in time in order to sign any defensemen. Is there even any left worth getting? Maybe we can do a 3-way trade where we can get someone like Aaron Miller who isn't great but isn't cruddy either. Teppo Numminen is still out there if we do this quick, I'd be suprised if he doesn't sign tomorrow. I don't know how much I think Aaron Ward will get. Even Daniel Tjarnqvist has a spot while inexpensive and still not good enough. At least we'll have some options if any of this happens.

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07-02-2006, 08:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Brad View Post
?

No, we're banking on this team not being good. They have terrible depth up front and a defense that just lost arguably it's best player. Pitkanen and Johnson were really the only two capable of handling the speedier teams, and now Johnsson is gone. On paper, this team does not look good at all.
my comment was directed at all the gloom and doom comments. Its July 2nd, and everyone is allready writing off the coming season. You think I am happy about losing Johnsson? NO I am not, but the reality is we were not going to resign him at the money he was asking for. Minnesota overpayed for him. That being said I believe there is no way we are done. I have allot of faith that Clarke will get this team more help either via signing someone or a trade.
On paper last years team was a Cup contender. We all know how that turned out. Some people really need to relax.

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I notice a trend here.."every defenseman is overpaid" Maybe the market value went up? Did it occur to anyone that if you want to have good defensemen you have to spend money. Hell, we spent a lot of money on a dog like Hatcher, no wonder everyone else is getting more.
yeah its all our fault for the crazyness with the defenseman in this offseason. ok then.


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07-02-2006, 08:37 PM
  #43
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yeah its all our fault for the crazyness with the defenseman in this offseason. ok then.


For some of these guys it is. You don't think at least a few of these guys looked at what guys like Hatcher or someone else makes, regardless of the fact of whether or not they deserve it, automatically ask for a certain dollar figure? That's how some of these agent roll.

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07-02-2006, 08:57 PM
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Lets put in a bottom line to all this offseason talk:


IFthe Flyers stay healthy including going into the playoffs they will have as good a shot as nearly anyone in the east. Yes questions surround the goaltending, slower D, and secondary scoring, but questions surround most teams.

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07-02-2006, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
here's the problem with moving Hatcher, I will be really suprised if we get anything good. Maybe another Nolan Baumgartner type, but we're not going to move him in time in order to sign any defensemen. Is there even any left worth getting? Maybe we can do a 3-way trade where we can get someone like Aaron Miller who isn't great but isn't cruddy either. Teppo Numminen is still out there if we do this quick, I'd be suprised if he doesn't sign tomorrow. I don't know how much I think Aaron Ward will get. Even Daniel Tjarnqvist has a spot while inexpensive and still not good enough. At least we'll have some options if any of this happens.
who cares if we get anything good for moving hatcher, we're clearing cap space (THAT is the trade value) not trying to acquire an asset.

this team will make the playoffs if it isn't shredded by injuries again. i base that opinion on the belief that our forward corp will be better with the continuing developmnet of Carter, Richards, and Umberger... we were a better team than where we finished last year... and if you don't believe that, then you aren't really worth talking to because you're not living in the real world. injuries are part of the sport, but when they happen and you can no longer fill the gaps... you lose. that's life... it's true in EVERY sport where you are restricted in the moves you can make. we simply got bit last year.

we will be fine... may not be a cup contender, but you know what? Carolina wasn't a cup contender when they dropped the puck in october. everyone needs to calm down... Clarke is being smart.

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07-02-2006, 09:27 PM
  #46
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Lets put in a bottom line to all this offseason talk:


IFthe Flyers stay healthy including going into the playoffs they will have as good a shot as nearly anyone in the east. Yes questions surround the goaltending, slower D, and secondary scoring, but questions surround most teams.
and that's what is great about the salary cap... the world is flattening... we won't be able to be cash-better than everyone every year now. frankly, it's more interesting and fun this way. it's good to worry... makes success more fun.

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07-02-2006, 10:53 PM
  #47
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who cares if we get anything good for moving hatcher, we're clearing cap space (THAT is the trade value) not trying to acquire an asset.

this team will make the playoffs if it isn't shredded by injuries again. i base that opinion on the belief that our forward corp will be better with the continuing developmnet of Carter, Richards, and Umberger... we were a better team than where we finished last year... and if you don't believe that, then you aren't really worth talking to because you're not living in the real world. injuries are part of the sport, but when they happen and you can no longer fill the gaps... you lose. that's life... it's true in EVERY sport where you are restricted in the moves you can make. we simply got bit last year.

we will be fine... may not be a cup contender, but you know what? Carolina wasn't a cup contender when they dropped the puck in october. everyone needs to calm down... Clarke is being smart.
jesus, finally a voice of reason.

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07-03-2006, 07:29 PM
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If we dont get another defenseman than Chris Therien is gonna have to be the 6th defender. Oh HOORAY

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07-03-2006, 07:33 PM
  #49
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If we dont get another defenseman than Chris Therien is gonna have to be the 6th defender. Oh HOORAY
?
we have 7 guys under contract that are better than therien

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07-03-2006, 09:49 PM
  #50
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we will be fine... may not be a cup contender, but you know what? Carolina wasn't a cup contender when they dropped the puck in october. everyone needs to calm down... Clarke is being smart.

You see therein lies the problem. With the management of the team slowly changing, I sense this might be 'one more chance' for Clarke and 1 screwup and he's gone. He's been the GM of this team going into his 12th season since returning to the team. That is more than enough time to accomplish the ultimate goal this team has set every year. We can go through most teams in sports every season - it doesn't take 12 years to do the job for most of these GMs. This team has the resources to be a contender every season. Just because Clarke effed up last season with Hatcher and Rathje doesn't absolve him from the fact. His mistakes cannot be held unaccountable forever. At some point enough will be enough.

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