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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
02-02-2013, 04:30 PM
  #301
Skead
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Or we could trade Luongo for picks/prospects to replenish for the future.
At what return? It seems that people are "skeptical" of his contract and performance under pressure. I just see a new Luongo that isn't affected by the mental stuff any more, and feel comfortable with him taking us into playoffs.

If Schneider could land us a package especially from a team projected to land a top pick (maybe CBJ, etc) and a couple blue chippers, that secures us long term.

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02-02-2013, 04:32 PM
  #302
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Showing your true colors, Bleach. You don't think Luongo will be dealt, you WANT him to be dealt.

Ass hurt over the way you believe he's let your beloved Canucks down in the playoffs?

I sure bet you cheer Roberto on.

Lame ****, homeboy.
Schneider's going to get back in soon... Luongo's the one being dealt... As good as Luongo is (and really, I know how good Luongo is... Luongo's one of the best in the league) - my opinion is that Schneider is at least just as good, if not better... You don't trade Cory Schneider... You don't trade Roberto Luongo either... But what can you do, when you can't keep both indefinitely - as both are fully capable and ready to be a #1 goalie on one of the best teams in the league (who also spend to the cap limit each year)?

I know some don't believe (or not enough evidence) that Schneider is fully capable and ready to be a #1... That's fine... That chapter is coming up, and some haven't read the book yet... The next part of the story is that while Luongo is playing like Luongo, Schneider starts and it's his turn to shine for a few games in a row... Sometimes, to show you're serious, you need to smash a sledgehammer into someone's skull... The sledgehammer here is, watch them play... See how they react to the situation... Hit the readers and observers with reality... which is sobering... and eye-opening... See, the Canucks have two #1 goalies, and they are professionals, so we can keep it longer term if need be... Seriously, the Canucks have two excellent #1 goaltenders... and they are professionals and want to challenge for a cup, on a team full of friends... No fine print...

If a team wants excellent #1 goaltending, they are going to have to pay for it... Their leverage of "can't keep both" for this season is imaginary... With how good Luongo and Schneider both are, I also can't believe that a GM around the league won't find it valuable for their team...

Yes, I realize that Schneider hasn't yet run with the ball... That's the next part of the story... Sorry for spoiling that part... I won't spoil the ending (I don't want to be an *******), but I'll just give a hint - and they all live happily ever after...

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02-02-2013, 04:39 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
I'm not a bandwagoner and you can look up my post history if you want but I think trading Schneider must become an option;

Age:
Booth 28
Burrows 31
Higgins 29
H. Sedin 32.0000002
D. Sedin 32.0000001
Bieksa 31
Hamhuis 30
Garrison 28
Luongo 33

they're all similarly aged and I'm thinking long term here, maybe it's best to trade Schneider for some solid picks/prospects to replenish the pool a bit for the future.
You can include Schneider in that age range, he's a month away from turning 27. Part of Gillis' mantra since he took the GM spot was trying to emulate the Red Wings when it came to sustainability so to trade a Goalie that is six years younger and at the same level as the other goalie on the team doesn't make sense if you're trying to have sustained success, although I do understand where you are coming from you want the Canucks to gamble entirely on one season, but how often does that ever work out?

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02-02-2013, 06:10 PM
  #304
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Luongo is playing amazing. But it doesn't change anything. Not sure what anyone expected he is a star goalie of course he is going to preform, It shouldn't come as a surprise that he is playing this well and it also shouldn't change anything for us, Cory is still our guy moving forward.

We should however hold onto Luongo till the offseason unless:

1. We get something in return that will help us contend for a cup more than Roberto does (aswell as atleast 1 future asset, preferably)

2. We get a package of futures that we know won't be available in the offseason.

Goal is the Stanley cup this season, we aren't trading Luongo away for just anything, if the deal doesn't help us now or significantly in the future I say we wait and use this luxury as long as we can.

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02-02-2013, 06:24 PM
  #305
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Many posters including Canuck fans, but especially Leaf fans don't realize why this situation arose.
When Lou signed the contract, he was the Canuck star, the twins were very good, but not elite, Naslund was in decline. So Roberto was the face of the franchise.
Now the Canucks have Cory on the cusp of stardom, and Lack in the pipeline. Despite his great regular season play from December on, Luongo has shown a maddening inconsistency in the playoffs. Brilliant in one game(game 5 SCF) and brutal the next. I think management has come to the conclusion of many fans, that he lacks the mental attitude to go all the way and they now have a different option availible.
Richard Brodeur and Kirk McLean the other two Canuck goaltenders who went to the SCF with the team were more consistent and very cool customers. Luongo is more like Hanlon, fiery and passionate and prone to letting things get under his skin. Roberto is a great goaltender, but maybe not the one to lead the Canucks to the promised land.
As for his new found maturity and relaxed attitude? Well maybe, but more than likely he is just loose because he has nothing to lose. He knows that he has nothing to lose, because he knows he is on the way out,he knows that he will eventually be traded and that the better he plays, the more likely a team will offer something more to Gillis' liking for him.

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02-02-2013, 06:35 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
At what return? It seems that people are "skeptical" of his contract and performance under pressure. I just see a new Luongo that isn't affected by the mental stuff any more, and feel comfortable with him taking us into playoffs.

If Schneider could land us a package especially from a team projected to land a top pick (maybe CBJ, etc) and a couple blue chippers, that secures us long term.
I 100% agree

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02-02-2013, 06:47 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Many posters including Canuck fans, but especially Leaf fans don't realize why this situation arose.
When Lou signed the contract, he was the Canuck star, the twins were very good, but not elite, Naslund was in decline. So Roberto was the face of the franchise.
Now the Canucks have Cory on the cusp of stardom, and Lack in the pipeline. Despite his great regular season play from December on, Luongo has shown a maddening inconsistency in the playoffs. Brilliant in one game(game 5 SCF) and brutal the next. I think management has come to the conclusion of many fans, that he lacks the mental attitude to go all the way and they now have a different option availible.
Richard Brodeur and Kirk McLean the other two Canuck goaltenders who went to the SCF with the team were more consistent and very cool customers. Luongo is more like Hanlon, fiery and passionate and prone to letting things get under his skin. Roberto is a great goaltender, but maybe not the one to lead the Canucks to the promised land.
As for his new found maturity and relaxed attitude? Well maybe, but more than likely he is just loose because he has nothing to lose. He knows that he has nothing to lose, because he knows he is on the way out,he knows that he will eventually be traded and that the better he plays, the more likely a team will offer something more to Gillis' liking for him.
Good post.

For me it has become a problem of Luongo's contract that has diminished his return. When we couple that with the Sedins window that they can be effective, we might want to reverse course .

Hang onto Luongo , who should be Solid for the next 2 years after this one , and trade Schneider for a much bigger return. Eddie Lack was doing well until his injury and from what I have seen he probably makes a good pro.


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02-02-2013, 07:47 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Good post.

For me it has become a problem of Luongo's contract that has diminished his return. When we couple that with the Sedins window that they can be effective, we might want to reverse course .

Hang onto Luongo , who should be Solid for the next 2 years after this one , and trade Schneider for a much bigger return. Eddie Lack was doing well until his injury and from what I have seen he probably makes a good pro.

Could be, but I still have reservations about Lou being able to win that 4th game and the cup. But then maybe he can. I agree that Schneider will fetch a better return, but whether that's the right course is debatable. If you could get a blue chip game breaker for him, then by all means. However, I not sure any goalie in the league will get you that kind of return. For the moment I think MG is doing the right thing, while Lou's value goes down in the offseason it may go up closer to the deadline. I agree with you that some solid prospects in return is probably the best course of action. Given the teams D and the look of Kasssian and maybe Jensen, going for a large tough centre who can score seems prudent. Someone who could slot in the top two lines in 2 to 3 years.

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02-02-2013, 09:09 PM
  #309
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IMO trading Schneider NEEDS to be a possibility, hear me out.

Looking at our lineup, our core (Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Booth) is in their prime RIGHT NOW, and will be for the next 2-3 years. That's our window to win regardless of who's in net, 2-3 years.

I'm fully confident both goalies are able to provide great goaltending for our window of 2-3 years, so the decision needs to be based on return. If the return is close, you obviously keep Schneider as he's younger and therefore more valuable. But if the return for Schneider is a player that gives you a much better chance of winning the cup in our window of 2-3 years compared to the return for Luongo - for god sakes Gillis, pull the trigger and win us a ****ing cup.

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02-02-2013, 09:22 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
IMO trading Schneider NEEDS to be a possibility, hear me out.

Looking at our lineup, our core (Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Booth) is in their prime RIGHT NOW, and will be for the next 2-3 years. That's our window to win regardless of who's in net, 2-3 years.

I'm fully confident both goalies are able to provide great goaltending for our window of 2-3 years, so the decision needs to be based on return. If the return is close, you obviously keep Schneider as he's younger and therefore more valuable. But if the return for Schneider is a player that gives you a much better chance of winning the cup in our window of 2-3 years compared to the return for Luongo - for god sakes Gillis, pull the trigger and win us a ****ing cup.
You are preaching to the choir in my opinion. The only caveat I would have is we could get a package of prospects and picks because by time Luongo and the Sedins are can no longer hack it, Kesler will only be 30 or 31 and we will have Eddie Lack. Alex Edler will just be hitting 30 , Raymond will be 28or 29 and our younger players can form the new core .

Hamhuis and Bieksa will be aged a bit should still be able to handle top 4 duty. Tanev and Connaution /Sauve will be coming along by then.

So , we can have TWO windows if we get the right package for Schneider and Eddie Lack pans out.

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02-03-2013, 03:06 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
IMO trading Schneider NEEDS to be a possibility, hear me out.

Looking at our lineup, our core (Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Booth) is in their prime RIGHT NOW, and will be for the next 2-3 years. That's our window to win regardless of who's in net, 2-3 years.

I'm fully confident both goalies are able to provide great goaltending for our window of 2-3 years, so the decision needs to be based on return. If the return is close, you obviously keep Schneider as he's younger and therefore more valuable. But if the return for Schneider is a player that gives you a much better chance of winning the cup in our window of 2-3 years compared to the return for Luongo - for god sakes Gillis, pull the trigger and win us a ****ing cup.
A large part of keeping Cory over Lui is extending that window like Detroit. We will see more of it soon as we inject the Jansens and kassians, schreoders, we have onto this team. Most don't replace the stars, but at some point they will have to.

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02-03-2013, 03:18 AM
  #312
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Here's the thing, the "goaltending controversey" was based on one goalie starting three games because he gave the team a better chance to win (at that moment). So, Luongo started the last three games, according to Vignault, because he gave the team a better chance to win. So.....?

The trade depends on the Sedins. If then Sedins find their game and signal they will continue to play, Gillis can deal off a goalie for immediate help. If the Sedins stay behind the pace, Gillis might as well begin the rebuild.

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02-03-2013, 03:21 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Many posters including Canuck fans, but especially Leaf fans don't realize why this situation arose.
When Lou signed the contract, he was the Canuck star, the twins were very good, but not elite, Naslund was in decline. So Roberto was the face of the franchise.
Now the Canucks have Cory on the cusp of stardom, and Lack in the pipeline. Despite his great regular season play from December on, Luongo has shown a maddening inconsistency in the playoffs. Brilliant in one game(game 5 SCF) and brutal the next. I think management has come to the conclusion of many fans, that he lacks the mental attitude to go all the way and they now have a different option availible.
Richard Brodeur and Kirk McLean the other two Canuck goaltenders who went to the SCF with the team were more consistent and very cool customers. Luongo is more like Hanlon, fiery and passionate and prone to letting things get under his skin. Roberto is a great goaltender, but maybe not the one to lead the Canucks to the promised land.
As for his new found maturity and relaxed attitude? Well maybe, but more than likely he is just loose because he has nothing to lose. He knows that he has nothing to lose, because he knows he is on the way out,he knows that he will eventually be traded and that the better he plays, the more likely a team will offer something more to Gillis' liking for him.
MacLean was anything but consistent. He nearly lost his job to Troy Gamble.

Luongo I think had much more of an issue with putting too much pressure on himself and I think the 2011 run helped him get over that. Hes much more relaxed about things starting last season.

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02-03-2013, 04:08 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
A large part of keeping Cory over Lui is extending that window like Detroit. We will see more of it soon as we inject the Jansens and kassians, schreoders, we have onto this team. Most don't replace the stars, but at some point they will have to.
Detroit had a long window because they kept making smart development decisions, not because they shipped out key pieces. They kept their old guys to be mentors to the rest of the team. I think our window is the same with either guy.

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02-03-2013, 04:57 AM
  #315
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Detroit had a long window because they kept making smart development decisions, not because they shipped out key pieces. They kept their old guys to be mentors to the rest of the team. I think our window is the same with either guy.
Let's be realistic here. Detroit was insanely lucky and no team can ever truly mimic what they accomplished short of equally improbable luck. They drafted three phenomenal players and that more or less cemented their success for the next two decades. They have some good prospects but had all the time in the world to wait around. No team can emulating that. In fact, the Wings can't.

I appreciate the mentality of a perennial contender but I also want to challenge for the cup. Unless Jensen and Kassian emerge as superstars, our best opportunity is now. If that means moving Schneider, then do so and either see how Lack pans out, draft a new goaltender or acquire one through trade. Luongo is liable to give us upwards of seven years of good goaltending. We have plenty of time. The same cannot be said of the Sedin era.

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02-03-2013, 07:43 AM
  #316
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The recent realism from some Nuck fans is much appreciated, which focuses on the team's short window and how best to achieve a cup.

In light of the window, it makes no sense to keep 2 goalies at a price of $9.3 million with a $64.3 million cap because the money is needed elsewhere to fill out the roster. The problem is who to keep and who to trade.

Because of his back-diving contract, Lou is difficult to trade for major value as recent history demonstrates. GM's tend to go with conventional wisdom so the post-lockout value of players with back-diving contracts has diminished. Schneider is by-far the more valuable asset of the 2 in the current market IMO.

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02-03-2013, 08:01 AM
  #317
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Funny, I never realized Schneider is almost 27. For some reason I thought of him as 23-24y old.

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02-03-2013, 08:49 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Many posters including Canuck fans, but especially Leaf fans don't realize why this situation arose.
When Lou signed the contract, he was the Canuck star, the twins were very good, but not elite, Naslund was in decline. So Roberto was the face of the franchise.
Now the Canucks have Cory on the cusp of stardom, and Lack in the pipeline. Despite his great regular season play from December on, Luongo has shown a maddening inconsistency in the playoffs. Brilliant in one game(game 5 SCF) and brutal the next. I think management has come to the conclusion of many fans, that he lacks the mental attitude to go all the way and they now have a different option availible.
Richard Brodeur and Kirk McLean the other two Canuck goaltenders who went to the SCF with the team were more consistent and very cool customers. Luongo is more like Hanlon, fiery and passionate and prone to letting things get under his skin. Roberto is a great goaltender, but maybe not the one to lead the Canucks to the promised land.
As for his new found maturity and relaxed attitude? Well maybe, but more than likely he is just loose because he has nothing to lose. He knows that he has nothing to lose, because he knows he is on the way out,he knows that he will eventually be traded and that the better he plays, the more likely a team will offer something more to Gillis' liking for him.
Luongo led them to a game from the cup and the team scored 0 goals in that game.
Yes he was bad in game 6, but McLean was bad in games 3&4. And how many cup winning goalies go thru and eintire playoff w/o some bad games?
That this brief stretch of Luongo playing well has changed this debate so much is laughable to me. He is and always has been elite. Gillis is lucky to have 2 excellent goalies. Im sure whichever will bring the best return will be moved.

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02-03-2013, 09:50 AM
  #319
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The recent realism from some Nuck fans is much appreciated, which focuses on the team's short window and how best to achieve a cup.

In light of the window, it makes no sense to keep 2 goalies at a price of $9.3 million with a $64.3 million cap because the money is needed elsewhere to fill out the roster. The problem is who to keep and who to trade.

Because of his back-diving contract, Lou is difficult to trade for major value as recent history demonstrates. GM's tend to go with conventional wisdom so the post-lockout value of players with back-diving contracts has diminished. Schneider is by-far the more valuable asset of the 2 in the current market IMO.
Realistically, their respective values probably aren't all that different. It would probably have more to do with the different teams that would trade for Luongo vs. Schneider.

Both goalies have put up incredible numbers, and both have questionmarks. With Luongo, it's how long he can keep up his play, what the implications of his contract will be long term, and what seems to be some doubt within the Canuck organization as to whether or not he can be the goalie to win a cup for them. With Schneider, it's the much bigger, but single question, of whether or not his numbers posted as a backup can translate to being an effective #1 in this league, or if he's just the highest paid and best backup in the league.

At this point, they're not going to trade either. It's obvious that the Canucks intention was to go with Schneider last offseason, but with Luongo back in favour, they can no longer trade him. They're most likely not going to make the decision to move Schneider this season passes and they see where they stand.

If Luongo finishes the season as the #1, they'll have to trade Schneider, and as a guy who hasn't won the #1 job, he'll probably get a similar package to the likes of Halak, Bobrovsky, Toskala, Lindback, etc.

If Schneider finishes the season as the #1, it'll bring up all of those same questions on Luongo as last offseason, and the offers will probably be similar or worse to what they were last year. They'll be less teams involved than for Schneider, but Luongo's a bigger impact player.

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02-03-2013, 09:51 AM
  #320
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Reimer now has a .922 save%. The Leafs are out of any Luongo "Sweepstakes".

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02-03-2013, 10:07 AM
  #321
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Luongo is playing amazing. But it doesn't change anything. Not sure what anyone expected he is a star goalie of course he is going to preform, It shouldn't come as a surprise that he is playing this well and it also shouldn't change anything for us, Cory is still our guy moving forward.

We should however hold onto Luongo till the offseason unless:

1. We get something in return that will help us contend for a cup more than Roberto does (aswell as atleast 1 future asset, preferably)

2. We get a package of futures that we know won't be available in the offseason.

Goal is the Stanley cup this season, we aren't trading Luongo away for just anything, if the deal doesn't help us now or significantly in the future I say we wait and use this luxury as long as we can.
The longer you wait the older Luongo gets. 35 years old, 36 years old -- it takes away his prime years, leaves the team with declining years and a lengthy contract. You can't drive a car for 200,000 miles and expect someone else to make 80% of the payments.

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02-03-2013, 10:12 AM
  #322
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Reimer now has a .922 save%. The Leafs are out of any Luongo "Sweepstakes".
Hard to really say given that he has what, 4-5 games under his belt this season?
What do I believe is that the Leafs (or any team) don't suddenly get management pressure because of a few good or bad games.

If it becomes a trend where leafs are leading their division of course they won't pursue, but if it is like years past where they've gotten streaky goaltending, why wouldn't they upgrade it at the right price.


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The longer you wait the older Luongo gets. 35 years old, 36 years old -- it takes away his prime years, leaves the team with declining years and a lengthy contract. You can't drive a car for 200,000 miles and expect someone else to make 80% of the payments.
Ok let's get a few facts straight; Luongo is 33 right now TURNING 34 at the end of this year, there's no way we're keeping him for an additional 2-3 years. The OP was just saying until the offseason. Next up goaltenders are able to play at a higher level, for longer, yeah he may have "200k miles" but if they car is able to go 500k miles then the value is still there.


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02-03-2013, 10:18 AM
  #323
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Hard to really say given that he has what, 4-5 games under his belt this season?
What do I believe is that the Leafs (or any team) don't suddenly get management pressure because of a few good or bad games.

If it becomes a trend where leafs are leading their division of course they won't pursue, but if it is like years past where they've gotten streaky goaltending, why wouldn't they upgrade it at the right price.
It's possible the Leafs have already moved on from Luongo. Not because of recent play but because of a realization that they aren't in a win now mode. That will take 3-4 years and longer if they give up significant assets for Lou. So how sensible is it for the Leafs to create multiple holes by acquiring Luongo and have a 38 year old Luongo when they are ready? It's not very sensible for a rebuilding team to acquire Luo unless he's cheap.

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02-03-2013, 10:25 AM
  #324
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It's possible the Leafs have already moved on from Luongo. Not because of recent play but because of a realization that they aren't in a win now mode. That will take 3-4 years and longer if they give up significant assets for Lou. So how sensible is it for the Leafs to create multiple holes by acquiring Luongo and have a 38 year old Luongo when they are ready? It's not very sensible for a rebuilding team to acquire Luo unless he's cheap.
I don't think the Leafs thought they were exactly in win mode just this last off season... Not much has changed, in fact it likely looks more positive for this season to make the playoffs and do some damage, given the short season and the success of the rookies.

I just have a feeling that Bell/Rogers under MSLE are putting some pressure on Nonis to make the playoffs "however possible". If he can do it without Luongo, great that's awesome, or maybe he acquires it through J. Bernier, they just want playoff tv views. The deeper the run, the more money they'll make.

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02-03-2013, 10:25 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Hard to really say given that he has what, 4-5 games under his belt this season?
What do I believe is that the Leafs (or any team) don't suddenly get management pressure because of a few good or bad games.

If it becomes a trend where leafs are leading their division of course they won't pursue, but if it is like years past where they've gotten streaky goaltending, why wouldn't they upgrade it at the right price.




Ok let's get a few facts straight; Luongo is 33 right now TURNING 34 at the end of this year, there's no way we're keeping him for an additional 2-3 years. The OP was just saying until the offseason. Next up goaltenders are able to play at a higher level, for longer, yeah he may have "200k miles" but if they car is able to go 500k miles then the value is still there.
Aside from after the Gionta hit, he's played very well. He posted a .921 save% in his rookie year.

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