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Trades within own division - How often?

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Old
02-02-2013, 09:48 PM
  #1
topshelfie
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Trades within own division - How often?

How often do trades happen within their own division? I know the answer is an obvious "not often' but is there a website that has this broken down by a percentage/ratio?Does it depend on the division?

I see many rumors or proposals on forums that I don't see as realistic for this reason but people keep mentioning them. Maybe if they realized , let's say, %10 of trades are within own divisions these types rumours wouldn't come up so often.

I enjoy rumors and proposals but only realistic ones.

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02-02-2013, 09:49 PM
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palindrom
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Everything else Equal, only 4 trades out of 29 (13.8%) should be in the division by random chance alone.

What i mean is, even if all teams were always willing to trade with division rival, divisional trade would be rare just because there are less teams inside a division than outside it, so less opportunity to make a trade.

I think in the past few years Toronto did trade a lot inside the division: Rask, Kaberle, Kessel, Grabovski. i dont have the stats, but its probable they did more significant trade inside their division than any other division.


Last edited by palindrom: 02-02-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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02-02-2013, 09:59 PM
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Kris Chreider
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Northeast Division teams trade with each other quite a bit, except for the Canadian teams with each other.

Free agents in the Central Division like to sign in the division, ex: Hossa.

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02-02-2013, 11:41 PM
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CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
How often do trades happen within their own division? I know the answer is an obvious "not often' but is there a website that has this broken down by a percentage/ratio?Does it depend on the division?

I see many rumors or proposals on forums that I don't see as realistic for this reason but people keep mentioning them. Maybe if they realized , let's say, %10 of trades are within own divisions these types rumours wouldn't come up so often.

I enjoy rumors and proposals but only realistic ones.
I can't recall the last trade in the Atlantic division, where teams exchanged anything significant.

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02-03-2013, 12:01 AM
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domaug*
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last trade i can recall within the division (Atlantic) was actually very recent:

TO PIT:
Chad Kolarik

TO NYR:
Benn Ferriero

it was just a minor-league trade for the Pens, but the Rangers are currently using Ferriero as checking line depth (he was in the lineup against the Pens though)

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02-03-2013, 12:03 AM
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Sundin would have been traded to the Habs had he not vetoed. Montreal did toss Grabovski to Toronto for his rights though.

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02-03-2013, 12:08 AM
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Akonite
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Edmonton traded Steve Staios for Aaron Johnson and a 3rd a couple years back. Caught me off guard for sure. Really bit us in the ass too when he scored a hat trick against the Oilers.


If you want a stat the Elias Sports Bureau would be the place to look.

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02-03-2013, 12:23 AM
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boredmale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I can't recall the last trade in the Atlantic division, where teams exchanged anything significant.
Maybe not recently but the Islanders seem to deal often with Philly and the Devils over the past 15 years

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02-03-2013, 03:04 AM
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Minnesota and Edmonton like to swap players;

Brodziak, Schultz/Gilbert

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02-03-2013, 08:09 AM
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CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Maybe not recently but the Islanders seem to deal often with Philly and the Devils over the past 15 years
I can't recall anything of real value being moved.

Rolston was a $5m salary dump, exchanged for the injured and struggling Hunter($4m left on his deal).

Isles sent Neimi to the Rangers for a 6th rounder. I think Neimi's in the ECHL.

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02-03-2013, 08:27 AM
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Dolph Ziggler
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Blues traded with Columbus a year ago. Can't remember the last time Blues traded with anyone else in the Central.

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02-03-2013, 08:38 AM
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Isles traded Guerin to penguins a few years ago I believe

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02-03-2013, 08:49 AM
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Zippy316
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Devils have never traded with the Rangers or Flyers. A couple years ago, Devils traded Langenbrunnner to the Starseven though Philly had a better offer. Even the trades with the Penguins and Islanders have always been minimal.

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02-03-2013, 08:53 AM
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Avs trade with Calgary occasionally. Not so much with EDM, MINN, or Van, though.

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02-03-2013, 09:16 AM
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Habs traded Gilmour to the Leafs.
Habs traded Grabovski to the Leafs for Greg Pateryn and a 2nd.

The 2nd was later traded to Chicago for Lang, then traded back to Toronto, then traded to Boston in the Kessel deal.

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02-03-2013, 09:52 AM
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palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Devils have never traded with the Rangers or Flyers. A couple years ago, Devils traded Langenbrunnner to the Starseven though Philly had a better offer. Even the trades with the Penguins and Islanders have always been minimal.
March 11, 1986

New Jersey Devils acquire
1986 3rd round pick (#62-Marc Laniel)

Philadelphia Flyers acquire
Glenn Chico Resch

You know if a teams make around 5 trades per years, in average it will make one trade with every NHL teams every 6 years, but being 15-20 years without making any trade with another teams could be considered normal variance rather than avoiding divisional trade. And we are not even talking about significant trade.

for example NJ devils never ever traded with Columbus, do they avoid them ?

the last trade with Detroit was in 1995, do they avoid them?

But they did trade with the NYI in 2011 (Treent hunter), and with Pittsburgh in 2002 (Stephane richer).


Last edited by palindrom: 02-03-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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02-03-2013, 10:21 AM
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Seachd
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By my count, since the new CBA in 2005, there have been 818 trades up to today. 73 of them have been within divisions, so about 8.9%.

That ranges from 4.5% in 2012 to 15.5% in 2009 (calendar years).

So far this year, there have only been 11 trades, but 3 have been within divisions.

That said, I don't see how knowing this would or should affect proposals.


Last edited by Seachd: 02-03-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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02-03-2013, 10:27 AM
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palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
By my count, since the new CBA in 2005, there have been 818 trades up to today. 73 of them have been within divisions, so about 8.9%.

That ranges from 4.5% in 2012 to 15.5% in 2009 (calendar years).

So far this year, there have only been 11 trades, but 3 have been within divisions.

That said, I don't see how knowing this would or should affect proposals.
interesting, did you compile these stats yourself ? or can you give us a link ?

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02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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Seachd
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
interesting, did you compile these stats yourself ? or can you give us a link ?
Just by my own count.

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02-03-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Maybe if they realized , let's say, %10 of trades are within own divisions these types rumours wouldn't come up so often.
Well, there are six divisions. That in itself would mean that there's a chance of ~17,2% for any trade to be made with one of the other divions, and a chance around 13,8% that trade happens within the same division (as there's just four potential partners in your own division compaired to five in every other). And that's purely statistical.

I think the relevance of teams being within the same division is not really underrated. At the end of the day, GMs will keep looking at what the best deal is in their eyes. Sure, in certain situations, it can become a factor, but I would consider it to be a secondary consideration. A tiebreaker in certain situations, but never a dealbreaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
By my count, since the new CBA in 2005, there have been 818 trades up to today. 73 of them have been within divisions, so about 8.9%.

That ranges from 4.5% in 2012 to 15.5% in 2009 (calendar years).
Very interesting. Thanks for prodiving that.

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:49 AM
  #21
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
Just by my own count.
So we can conclude that since the lockout, there was less Divisional trade (8.9) than what should be expected by random chance if everything was equal (13.8%).

So if its not caused by a normal variance, teams does avoid divisional trade up to a certain point.

We could say that out of three serious offer made by division rival, they will do two trades, and avoid the third one to make it outside the division. They probably avoid divisional trade when the offers are similar, But when a division rival offer a superior deal, they always take it.


Last edited by palindrom: 02-03-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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02-03-2013, 11:39 AM
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Ducks and sharks don't seem to have any problem trading with each other.

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02-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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They happen but significant deals are rare. It's mainly spare parts and minor deals

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02-03-2013, 12:45 PM
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Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Sundin would have been traded to the Habs had he not vetoed. Montreal did toss Grabovski to Toronto for his rights though.
"Sundin" and "Sundin's rights" are the same thing. Neither of them went to Montreal.

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02-03-2013, 01:35 PM
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The biggest trade within the pacific a decade ago would probably be the Selanne trade. Although the Kings traded Norstrom to Dallas a few years ago.Other than that, there's just minor trades....like Aubin getting traded for a 7th.

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