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Old
02-02-2013, 12:45 PM
  #51
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Really wanted a push for Gleason before the lockout somehow,as added defense and someone to keep watch when the big boys weren't on the ice...


Upsetting how the Haley situation turned out...

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I'm not talking about fighting and winning. I'm not asking anyone to go toe to toe. If any of our guys decided to pick a fight with Lucic and play it safe (read: throw a few, clinch up and end the fight) i wouldn't be upset. Those punches hurt, but you really can't get the kind of power on ice as you can on solid ground, and these men are professional athletes. There aren't many players in the NHL who can't at the least defend themselves from anyone else.

Fighting in the NHL isn't always about winning. Sometimes a player's willingness to fight is all it takes, and sometimes it's about getting a player off the ice for 5 minutes.
If Lucic is running around crushing people and no one is willing to go toe to toe with him--guess what?--Lucic is going to continue to run around crunching people--he's likely to do that even if someone gives him a good go but maybe with just a little less aggression. Right now I'm not sure what the Rangers have to bring up apart from McIlrath (I agree that it's too soon for him) Haley and Mashinter.

Anyway I agree with the threadstarter--this team is not that tough and might have to address this sometime in the next couple months. The Prust deal came about after Carcillo mugged Gaborik. The Rangers also brought in Jody Shelley at that time. Having guys that are willing and able to make other teams pay for their transgressions is still an important consideration when putting together a hockey team. When the same guys can also perform other functions like scoring the odd goal, playing acceptable defense, penalty killing--then you have a valuable commodity. There are always guys like that out there--problem is finding them and incorporating them into your team structure and then getting them up to speed.

Bruins by the way looked to have lost Thornton (concussion) for at least a couple weeks. He (not Lucic or Chara) has been their main guy and though a smaller heavyweight he's embarrassed a number of much larger foes over the years. He's also a decent 4th liner so Boston is a little less tougher now--and a concussion for a fighter like Thornton can be a really serious thing.

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02-02-2013, 12:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by E-Train View Post
I don't think Gallant was in the lineup. Mash is great for CT. I don't Haley has fought once since he was acquired. Was very impressive in his NHL scraps too.
Haley has fought 15 times this year--check out hockeyfights.com. He hasn't fought since early January though. He's got banged up in at least a couple of them and part of the problem was that the Whale didn't have anyone that was a real heavyweight and he got the job by default of handling guys like Gallant (who is a real monster of a fighter) and Pelech (who is just ****ing huge). Haley is not that big--about 5'11 and about 200 lbs. Fighting too much above his weight class IMO may have had something to do with his somewhat subpar year and his lack of involvement lately.

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02-02-2013, 01:12 PM
  #54
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Haley was fighting the big boys before McIlrath landed with the Whale...he doesn't need to as much at this point.

Went to the last Whale game before the all-star break and Haley was not noticeable on the ice at all...shocked me after how he played with the Islanders.

On another note, Mashinter looked good, I think he should be up with the big club right now and send Gilroy back down....Mashinter would add some toughness to the team and a good 3rd-4th line option, who has better skills than Rupp and Asham.

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02-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #55
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Rangers always have their tough guys. Been this way for a long time. Rarely are they outmatched in this department. Maybe they aren't going to win them all, but they have the guys to stand up and guys who's sole purpose is to drop the mitts.

I appreciate this role, however I think a different kind of toughness is needed specifically here in the East. People mention Lucic. He's a prime example of the kind of toughness that is truly effective in this league. Like a hybrid. A tough guy that doesn't play against other teams tough guys for the most part. He plays against top lines.

Throw Hartnell in there as that type of player too. Kassian now also. Clowe as well. Jamie Benn, Jerome Iginla two other examples. I'll leave out Evander Kane cause he's a mental, egotistical ******* of a player. Add Brendan Morrow and Shane Doan to list too.

If I was building a team, I am looking for these types of players both on offense and defense. The Bruins are a prime example, and a model I would certainly try to copy. Loook at the B's and not only do they have the toughest top 6 guy in the league, well maybe Clowe is, but I think Lucic is the more effective and better IMPOSING power forward in the league. But the also have Chara on the back end who is another example of that hybrid type of player. Add Horton in the mix and you have look at them as a vicious club to try and beat in a 7 game series.

I think that for all the toughness the Rangers have, they just have in the wrong areas. Let's say Sather managed to land Phaneuf when they were on him? How exciting would it be, and more importantly how would it change dynamic in a 7 game series against the likes of Malkin, and Crosby? You know, that those two just don't like to get hit. You have to think that they would be less likely to fly through the neutral zone like they currently do against the Rangers every time they play them.

Rick Nash is a power forward. But he is not in the same category as the aforementioned. He's not imposing. He's tough to contain in the same way Mike Knuble was tough to contain. He's a big bodied guy who plays in high traffic with exceptional hands. I'm not saying that Nash is the wrong guy for this team. I think he's a great fit here. However somewhere in that top 6, how much difference would a guy like Ryane Clowe be in a playoff series? What if Clowe played the left side of Richards with Gabby back at Right wing. What if Steps centered Rick Nash with Kreider on the other side? Is that a more balanced attack? it certainly changes dynamic. Hate to say it, as he is probably one of my favorite players here however, what if the Captain was traded for Ryane Clowe?

In addition what if the club had a Phaneuf, a Bieksa in the place of say Marc Staal? And for the people that are going to respond, let's just trade the whole team blah blah blah. That's not the point I'm making. It's again a change in dynamic switching to a toughness that actually matters in today's NHL.

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02-02-2013, 02:20 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Rangers always have their tough guys. Been this way for a long time. Rarely are they outmatched in this department. Maybe they aren't going to win them all, but they have the guys to stand up and guys who's sole purpose is to drop the mitts.

I appreciate this role, however I think a different kind of toughness is needed specifically here in the East. People mention Lucic. He's a prime example of the kind of toughness that is truly effective in this league. Like a hybrid. A tough guy that doesn't play against other teams tough guys for the most part. He plays against top lines.

Throw Hartnell in there as that type of player too. Kassian now also. Clowe as well. Jamie Benn, Jerome Iginla two other examples. I'll leave out Evander Kane cause he's a mental, egotistical ******* of a player. Add Brendan Morrow and Shane Doan to list too.

If I was building a team, I am looking for these types of players both on offense and defense. The Bruins are a prime example, and a model I would certainly try to copy. Loook at the B's and not only do they have the toughest top 6 guy in the league, well maybe Clowe is, but I think Lucic is the more effective and better IMPOSING power forward in the league. But the also have Chara on the back end who is another example of that hybrid type of player. Add Horton in the mix and you have look at them as a vicious club to try and beat in a 7 game series.

I think that for all the toughness the Rangers have, they just have in the wrong areas. Let's say Sather managed to land Phaneuf when they were on him? How exciting would it be, and more importantly how would it change dynamic in a 7 game series against the likes of Malkin, and Crosby? You know, that those two just don't like to get hit. You have to think that they would be less likely to fly through the neutral zone like they currently do against the Rangers every time they play them.

Rick Nash is a power forward. But he is not in the same category as the aforementioned. He's not imposing. He's tough to contain in the same way Mike Knuble was tough to contain. He's a big bodied guy who plays in high traffic with exceptional hands. I'm not saying that Nash is the wrong guy for this team. I think he's a great fit here. However somewhere in that top 6, how much difference would a guy like Ryane Clowe be in a playoff series? What if Clowe played the left side of Richards with Gabby back at Right wing. What if Steps centered Rick Nash with Kreider on the other side? Is that a more balanced attack? it certainly changes dynamic. Hate to say it, as he is probably one of my favorite players here however, what if the Captain was traded for Ryane Clowe?

In addition what if the club had a Phaneuf, a Bieksa in the place of say Marc Staal? And for the people that are going to respond, let's just trade the whole team blah blah blah. That's not the point I'm making. It's again a change in dynamic switching to a toughness that actually matters in today's NHL.
Rangers SC winning team had Kocur, Kypreos and Wells but they also had Graves--on their first line--not as big as Lucic but a better overall player and a player who always made other teams pay for getting out of line--much like Prust did the last couple years. They also had Beukeboom pairing with Leetch. That team was not only very talented but very, very tough and they could win the skill games and the rough and tumble ones--any way the other team wanted to play it.

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02-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #57
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Team Toughness isn't the problem.

The big problem with this team, like it's been post lockout is lack of puck possession hockey. I don't think we'll win unless we revert to that playing style, all post lockout cup winners were great at possessing the puck. The Rangers are bottom half of the league in that regard.

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02-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
I know it's only two games BUT with Bickel probably playing his way out of the lineup we're not anywhere near as nasty as last year. And with our top forward (Nash) not hesitating to throw his weight around I see a lot of teams taking runs at him. Rupp and Asham gonna have a lot of work, not sure they are up to the task.

Yes, I miss Prust already.
Rupp is an old piece of crap, and Asham is a poor man's Avery.

As for whilom 2012 tough Rangers: Dubinsky, Prust, Avery, and it now looks like Bickel are gone.

This is not the same team we fell in love with last year, gentlemen.

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02-02-2013, 03:45 PM
  #59
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Asham a poor man's Avery?! hahaha you kids crack me up. Asham would beat Avery to a pulp. He's easily one of the best in his weight class. So what if he took some good shots in his fights this year. That's going to happen. And Dubi couldn't fight to save his life unless it was against Mike Richards.

I think the Rangers are pretty tough as they are, but I'd like to see what this Mashinter kid can add.

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02-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #60
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Asham is a tougher player than Avery but I'd take Sean over him easily.

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02-02-2013, 03:56 PM
  #61
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Avery was better offensively and definitely added something with his speed, but he couldn't play defense to save his life. I'd take Asham over Avery if only to avoid off sides whistles.

Asham is actually a decent player. Has skills. Problem is he hasn't had much of a chance yet to do anything. I'd like to see a little more of him before I jump on the 'hate' bandwagon.

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02-02-2013, 04:53 PM
  #62
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Asham is a tougher player than Avery but I'd take Sean over him easily.
Is there a none of the above choice?

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02-02-2013, 05:01 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Rangers always have their tough guys. Been this way for a long time. Rarely are they outmatched in this department. Maybe they aren't going to win them all, but they have the guys to stand up and guys who's sole purpose is to drop the mitts.

I appreciate this role, however I think a different kind of toughness is needed specifically here in the East. People mention Lucic. He's a prime example of the kind of toughness that is truly effective in this league. Like a hybrid. A tough guy that doesn't play against other teams tough guys for the most part. He plays against top lines.

Throw Hartnell in there as that type of player too. Kassian now also. Clowe as well. Jamie Benn, Jerome Iginla two other examples. I'll leave out Evander Kane cause he's a mental, egotistical ******* of a player. Add Brendan Morrow and Shane Doan to list too.

If I was building a team, I am looking for these types of players both on offense and defense. The Bruins are a prime example, and a model I would certainly try to copy. Loook at the B's and not only do they have the toughest top 6 guy in the league, well maybe Clowe is, but I think Lucic is the more effective and better IMPOSING power forward in the league. But the also have Chara on the back end who is another example of that hybrid type of player. Add Horton in the mix and you have look at them as a vicious club to try and beat in a 7 game series.

I think that for all the toughness the Rangers have, they just have in the wrong areas. Let's say Sather managed to land Phaneuf when they were on him? How exciting would it be, and more importantly how would it change dynamic in a 7 game series against the likes of Malkin, and Crosby? You know, that those two just don't like to get hit. You have to think that they would be less likely to fly through the neutral zone like they currently do against the Rangers every time they play them.

Rick Nash is a power forward. But he is not in the same category as the aforementioned. He's not imposing. He's tough to contain in the same way Mike Knuble was tough to contain. He's a big bodied guy who plays in high traffic with exceptional hands. I'm not saying that Nash is the wrong guy for this team. I think he's a great fit here. However somewhere in that top 6, how much difference would a guy like Ryane Clowe be in a playoff series? What if Clowe played the left side of Richards with Gabby back at Right wing. What if Steps centered Rick Nash with Kreider on the other side? Is that a more balanced attack? it certainly changes dynamic. Hate to say it, as he is probably one of my favorite players here however, what if the Captain was traded for Ryane Clowe?

In addition what if the club had a Phaneuf, a Bieksa in the place of say Marc Staal? And for the people that are going to respond, let's just trade the whole team blah blah blah. That's not the point I'm making. It's again a change in dynamic switching to a toughness that actually matters in today's NHL.
Well said...I agree with everything you said except trading Callahan for Clowe. I would entertain Hagelin and a few prospects not named McILrath or Miller for Clowe.

Richards warts are starting to show again...he was good last year but not great and this year he has been awful so start...just think of all the guys who are going to be free next year and I think Sather ****ed up with that long term deal he gave Richards...when guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Clowe, Horton and Clarkson, will all be free.

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Old
02-03-2013, 09:51 AM
  #64
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Clowe would be a great fit but I don't see SJ moving a valuable piece with their own playoff run coming.

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02-03-2013, 10:44 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Team Toughness isn't the problem.

The big problem with this team, like it's been post lockout is lack of puck possession hockey. I don't think we'll win unless we revert to that playing style, all post lockout cup winners were great at possessing the puck. The Rangers are bottom half of the league in that regard.
Boston wasn't a puck possession team by advanced stats at all and they won it too. LA most certainly was though

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02-03-2013, 10:45 AM
  #66
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Still think Mashinter will eventually be playing on this teams 4th line. Just needs to learn the system.

But he has been playing really well for the Whale, 7 points in 8 games.

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02-03-2013, 10:52 AM
  #67
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Still think Mashinter will eventually be playing on this teams 4th line. Just needs to learn the system.

But he has been playing really well for the Whale, 7 points in 8 games.
Mash cannot be worse than Rupp. Bring him on the team.

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02-03-2013, 10:54 AM
  #68
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Mash cannot be worse than Rupp. Bring him on the team.
He might be, Rupp is reasonably responsible defensively, or at least he was. Not sure he can still skate.

I havent seen enough from Mash yet. Think he needs at least another month on the whale learning.

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02-03-2013, 11:08 AM
  #69
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I find it out of line when posters on an internet forum call a Pro player garbage? Especially on your own team..Garbage really?? How much better could you chip eating know it alls do? Half of you probably get winded going up a flight of stairs..It takes a man to drop the gloves and cowards to criticize..Even a declining Rupp deserves respect for going out every night and taking on the other tams heavy..Shame on you all.

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02-03-2013, 11:10 AM
  #70
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I find it out of line when posters on an internet forum call a Pro player garbage? Especially on your own team..Garbage really?? How much better could you chip eating know it alls do? Half of you probably get winded going up a flight of stairs..It takes a man to drop the gloves and cowards to criticize..Even a declining Rupp deserves respect for going out every night and taking on the other tams heavy..Shame on you all.
You dont make a point at all.

Im sure most of us could go out there and stand around for 5 minutes a night and lose a fight. Not that hard to do. Im not sure how exciting the forum would be if all we could do is praise everyone in the league.

But we arent professional hockey players anyway, so the argument isnt how easily could we replace Rupp with a member of HF, but how easily they could replace Rupp with another hockey player.

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02-03-2013, 11:15 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
You dont make a point at all.

Im sure most of us could go out there and stand around for 5 minutes a night and lose a fight. Not that hard to do. Im not sure how exciting the forum would be if all we could do is praise everyone in the league.

But we arent professional hockey players anyway, so the argument isnt how easily could we replace Rupp with a member of HF, but how easily they could replace Rupp with another hockey player.
I would love to watch you play 5 minutes of NHL hockey. Absolutely love it.

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02-03-2013, 11:16 AM
  #72
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I would love to watch you play 5 minutes of NHL hockey. Absolutely love it.
Is this the same sort of argument that you cant criticize the president unless you are the president?

We dont see a logical fail there?

Id love to play 5 minutes in the NHL, played with a couple current NHL players when I was younger.

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02-03-2013, 11:21 AM
  #73
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When we say that Rupp is garbage, we don't mean that he's a garbage athlete. We mean that he is a garbage NHL hockey player. We want to replace him with someone who is a better NHL hockey player. He doesn't do much for the NY Rangers on the ice.

I think Justin Bieber is garbage. Am I not allowed to say that because I haven't sold out MSG?

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02-03-2013, 11:22 AM
  #74
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I played professional rugby. Does that count?

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Old
02-03-2013, 02:11 PM
  #75
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Rupp goes out there and fights for the team...He fights for the Rangers...You remember last year or the year before when Orr went into Philly and abused them all night with nobody willing to stand up to him? Rupp will fight anybody and actually owns Thornton on Boston,except for the last fight...Is Rupp my favorite for the job? Not at all but he has a very dirty job that only a handful do in the NHL..He deserves more respect here than he gets...I dont know who Justin Beiber is? Is he another soft euro?






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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
When we say that Rupp is garbage, we don't mean that he's a garbage athlete. We mean that he is a garbage NHL hockey player. We want to replace him with someone who is a better NHL hockey player. He doesn't do much for the NY Rangers on the ice.

I think Justin Bieber is garbage. Am I not allowed to say that because I haven't sold out MSG?

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