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Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-02-2013, 03:30 PM
  #751
Hans Rutherford
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
Pens currently are up 5-1 against NJ. Who here is with me in calling for the front office giving Bylsma a four-year extension?
The Pens finally woke up today. Still think Bylsma is on a short leash, one more bad playoff exit and he's gone imo.

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02-02-2013, 03:35 PM
  #752
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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So far we've outscored the Devils, Flyers, and Rangers 17-5.

Fire Bylsma.

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
So far we've outscored the Devils, Flyers, and Rangers 17-5.

Fire Bylsma.
And don't forget that we're 4-0 in those games.

We've also been outscored 14-7 (and are 1-3) against Toronto, Winnipeg, Ottawa, and the Islanders, but that shouldn't count at a moment like this, when it's clear that all is well.

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Old
02-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 View Post
The Pens finally woke up today. Still think Bylsma is on a short leash, one more bad playoff exit and he's gone imo.
The Pens woke up emotionally. The breakout was 'better' but still a problem because of the obsessive reliance on the stretch pass.

And, the PP is an absolute train wreck.

But, we won, so all is well as I said.

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02-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
And don't forget that we're 4-0 in those games.

We've also been outscored 14-7 (and are 1-3) against Toronto, Winnipeg, Ottawa, and the Islanders, but that shouldn't count at a moment like this, when it's clear that all is well.
I'd rather worry about performing against teams we might actually run into in May, but to each their own.

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02-02-2013, 04:00 PM
  #756
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I put this into the game +/-, so I'll put it here.

Nisky's injury forced Bylsma to play Despres. Lovejoy's sucktitude forced him to play Bortuzzo. But, atleast he's giving those two a chance to really play. The motive might have been that he had no choice and one wonders what happens when Nisky returns, but he's letting them go through the growing pains. The Pens will only be better for that in April.

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02-02-2013, 05:43 PM
  #757
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And the roller coaster goes up... with that said I really don't care about Disco and his regular season "system' it his coaching or lack their of that gets our ***** handed to us in the playoffs... you know when it counts!

#disconeedstoGOGO

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02-02-2013, 06:01 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
And the roller coaster goes up... with that said I really don't care about Disco and his regular season "system' it his coaching or lack their of that gets our ***** handed to us in the playoffs... you know when it counts!

#disconeedstoGOGO
Yeah, but the regular season says a lot about the playoffs, haven't you heard?

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02-02-2013, 06:13 PM
  #759
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I'm still wary of Bylsma at this point myself. But I think the board as a whole will benefit if all of us turned down the snark a bit on this topic. Let's give it a shot.

Thanks guys.

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02-03-2013, 10:11 AM
  #760
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Puck Daddy article yesterday on the topic of if the shortened season will save some coaches' jobs. Bylsma is pictured. Wysh writes:
Quote:
The Penguins have a very real chance of winning the Stanley Cup this season. If they aren’t playing well under Bylsma, GM Ray Shero has two choices: Make the dramatic trade for a winger on Sidney Crosby’s line (Phil Kessel? Corey Perry?) or fire Bylsma.
It's more or less commentary on this Sports Illustrated article from 1.31.13.
Here's a quote:
Quote:
The only coach who appears to be in legitimate danger early on is Bylsma, who has entered his fourth season in a town where no coach has made it to five. The Pens, one of the favorites to win it all this season, look puzzlingly soft. Special teams are a mess and the defense and goaltending have been porous. The talent is there (mostly) but the results aren’t. That’s the recipe for a pink slip right there.

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02-03-2013, 10:35 AM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
We've also been outscored 14-7 (and are 1-3) against Toronto, Winnipeg, Ottawa, and the Islanders,
If this pattern continues where we show more focus and energy for the tougher teams (I'm sure we'll play the Islanders tough next time because of last time so throw that one out), and show less focus and energy against mediocre or weak teams (Buffalo and Winnipeg again mid-month)... it's tough not to put it on the coaching staff.

One way or another it's their job to have the team in the right mindset, and ready to finish the kill when there's blood in the water, whether your opponent is 8-2 or 2-8.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Puck Daddy article yesterday on the topic of if the shortened season will save some coaches' jobs. Bylsma is pictured. Wysh writes:


It's more or less commentary on this Sports Illustrated article from 1.31.13.
Here's a quote:
I give SI zero credibility but it's surprising to see his name mentioned in the mainstream hockey media at all.

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02-03-2013, 11:16 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I give SI zero credibility but it's surprising to see his name mentioned in the mainstream hockey media at all.
I'm not, really.

For one thing, there's been issues for a while, and anyone who wasn't paying attention certainly saw it during the debacle of the first round of the playoffs.

Also, I think there's quite a few members of the press hanging out on these boards. I know there's one poster here (can't remember their user name) who has creds and mentioned recently that it was surprising how many people in the press box were checking out the boards during the game. Even if that hadn't been mentioned, there's been too many times that there's been a thread about something and within a day or two there's an article on the topic. Or some sort of commentary from the Pens organization. Could be coincidence.

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02-03-2013, 11:27 AM
  #763
Florentino Ariza
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Pens-first place in their division

Fire Bylsma

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02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
If this pattern continues where we show more focus and energy for the tougher teams (I'm sure we'll play the Islanders tough next time because of last time so throw that one out), and show less focus and energy against mediocre or weak teams (Buffalo and Winnipeg again mid-month)... it's tough not to put it on the coaching staff.

One way or another it's their job to have the team in the right mindset, and ready to finish the kill when there's blood in the water, whether your opponent is 8-2 or 2-8.


I give SI zero credibility but it's surprising to see his name mentioned in the mainstream hockey media at all.
Actually, I don't think it's as much about focus and energy as it is about the other teams preparation. Most good teams aren't going to do much opponent specific game planning during the regular season, especially one as condensed as this. They run what they've got in place, make changes/additions based on how things are going generally, but, as a rule of thumb won't say 'we're playing Pittsburgh today, let's go with something different'. They'll do in game adjustments if they think it's necessary.

The teams more likely to prepare specifically for the Pens are the perceived weaker teams, the ones that view the Pens as a measuring stick. Look at Winnipeg . . . after the game, Jets fans were saying that Noel completely adjusted how they defend the breakout to deal specifically with the Pens stretch pass.

Here's the kicker, though: EVERYONE the Pens will meet in the playoffs will game plan specifically for them. Look at NJ last year, introducing a double chip to deal with the Flyers aggressive forecheck.

The whole 'we do what we do' approach is fine for the regular season. Even with the perceived weaker teams that prepare, you figure that talent and emotion should translate into enough wins. And, that's really what has happened.

But, when the playoffs come and the preparation specifically designed for the Pens begins . . .

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02-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florentino Ariza View Post
Pens-first place in their division

Fire Bylsma
Again, no one is really worried about the reg season success. This team has enough talent to win in the reg season.

It's in the POs where teams key on all of them Pens' weaknesses that has us worried.

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02-03-2013, 03:36 PM
  #766
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
It's in the POs where teams key on all of them Pens' weaknesses that has us worried.
Weakness number one being Fleury, of course.

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02-03-2013, 03:40 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Again, no one is really worried about the reg season success. This team has enough talent to win in the reg season.

It's in the POs where teams key on all of them Pens' weaknesses that has us worried.
No, we're not.

Only issue I had today was breakouts. Pens were a little better against the all out pressure forecheck (forwards still leaving too early, but there at least was a little more help to get the puck out). BUT, when the Caps dropped back into that passive 1-2-2 to open the third, the Pens went right into stretch pass, turnover, counter, chance against mode. Fortunately, when the Caps got the PP goal, they abandoned that approach and went back to the all out forecheck.

When people talk about what Claude Noel, for example, did in the Winnipeg game, THIS is it. Winnipeg is a very aggressive forechecking team. They completely abandoned that approach and invited the Pens to keep trying the stretch pass. The Pens obliged.

When the playoffs come and the good coaches really look at the tape, I expect to see more of this. I'd like, just once, to see something that says the Pens have something other than the stretch pass to combat a passive forecheck.

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02-03-2013, 03:55 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No, we're not.

Only issue I had today was breakouts. Pens were a little better against the all out pressure forecheck (forwards still leaving too early, but there at least was a little more help to get the puck out). BUT, when the Caps dropped back into that passive 1-2-2 to open the third, the Pens went right into stretch pass, turnover, counter, chance against mode. Fortunately, when the Caps got the PP goal, they abandoned that approach and went back to the all out forecheck.

When people talk about what Claude Noel, for example, did in the Winnipeg game, THIS is it. Winnipeg is a very aggressive forechecking team. They completely abandoned that approach and invited the Pens to keep trying the stretch pass. The Pens obliged.

When the playoffs come and the good coaches really look at the tape, I expect to see more of this. I'd like, just once, to see something that says the Pens have something other than the stretch pass to combat a passive forecheck.
Fully agree and a nice pick up. Its why I almost throw wins against the Rangers out the window. Everyone wants to call Torts a great coach but what has he done to adapt to the stretch pass.

I actually like the stratch pass but when it becomes the only weapon it gets pick apart. Teams can see that in game 1 of a series and adjust. I would actually like to see the Pens set up the stretch as a lure and then set up something in back of it. If teams over defend one then you have another.

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02-03-2013, 03:58 PM
  #769
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Fully agree and a nice pick up. Its why I almost throw wins against the Rangers out the window. Everyone wants to call Torts a great coach but what has he done to adapt to the stretch pass.

I actually like the stratch pass but when it becomes the only weapon it gets pick apart. Teams can see that in game 1 of a series and adjust. I would actually like to see the Pens set up the stretch as a lure and then set up something in back of it. If teams over defend one then you have another.
The more I think about it, the more I think where the Pens get into trouble is when teams game plan against them (as I wrote earlier). During the regular season, you'll find teams seeing the Pens as 'measuring stick' games specifically game planning for the Pens. And, everyone (well, almost everyone) tailors game plans during the playoffs. It helps to explain, IMO, why the Pens seem so unprepared against some perceived inferior teams and in the playoffs.

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02-03-2013, 04:55 PM
  #770
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The more I think about it, the more I think where the Pens get into trouble is when teams game plan against them (as I wrote earlier). During the regular season, you'll find teams seeing the Pens as 'measuring stick' games specifically game planning for the Pens. And, everyone (well, almost everyone) tailors game plans during the playoffs. It helps to explain, IMO, why the Pens seem so unprepared against some perceived inferior teams and in the playoffs.
Very true. Disco hockey is strange. He does some very good things and some bad things. Like that Tampa series, Disco and his crew figure out how to beat the 1-3-1, Boucher adjusts and then Disco still keeps trying to do the same thing.

I guess every coach has their warts. BUF fans complain about Ruff and Hawks fans complain about coach Q. As much as I like what MT did for the Pens, I will go to my grave saying that the Pens could have won the cup in 08 if they were allowed to forecheck.

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02-03-2013, 09:04 PM
  #771
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I'm off his case for the moment after the last 2 games. It's not so much that we won out this weekend, as it is the how. Instead of isolated D being forced to try to make 50 foot stretch passes on the backhand, I'm seeing puck support everywhere. Puck carrier's got 2 people supporting him at all times. Different breakout, different neutral zone configuration. All things I've wanted to see since last February. Better late than never, I guess.

What I still do not like is that Jeffrey gets into the lineup, plays great, then gets benched for his trouble because Shero put in a waiver claim on a bubble guy. If Bylsma still insists on having Boychuk in the lineup, then he should at least scratch Kennedy to get DJ back in there. Not using Kennedy anyway.

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02-03-2013, 09:06 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No, we're not.

Only issue I had today was breakouts. Pens were a little better against the all out pressure forecheck (forwards still leaving too early, but there at least was a little more help to get the puck out). BUT, when the Caps dropped back into that passive 1-2-2 to open the third, the Pens went right into stretch pass, turnover, counter, chance against mode. Fortunately, when the Caps got the PP goal, they abandoned that approach and went back to the all out forecheck.

When people talk about what Claude Noel, for example, did in the Winnipeg game, THIS is it. Winnipeg is a very aggressive forechecking team. They completely abandoned that approach and invited the Pens to keep trying the stretch pass. The Pens obliged.

When the playoffs come and the good coaches really look at the tape, I expect to see more of this. I'd like, just once, to see something that says the Pens have something other than the stretch pass to combat a passive forecheck.
This is fair to say though.

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02-03-2013, 09:20 PM
  #773
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Very true. Disco hockey is strange. He does some very good things and some bad things. Like that Tampa series, Disco and his crew figure out how to beat the 1-3-1, Boucher adjusts and then Disco still keeps trying to do the same thing.

I guess every coach has their warts. BUF fans complain about Ruff and Hawks fans complain about coach Q. As much as I like what MT did for the Pens, I will go to my grave saying that the Pens could have won the cup in 08 if they were allowed to forecheck.
I hear this all the time, and I always feel compelled to set things straight.

Coach adjustment had nothing to do with Tampa coming back in that series. Fleury playing like a sack of **** did. In the final 3 games, MAF saw just 58 shots but let in 9 goals. Geriatric Roloson saw 98 shots and and let in only 4.

That, and only that, was the reason Tampa came back. Bylsma can't control Fleury's brain turning to mush.

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02-03-2013, 09:22 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I'm off his case for the moment after the last 2 games. It's not so much that we won out this weekend, as it is the how. Instead of isolated D being forced to try to make 50 foot stretch passes on the backhand, I'm seeing puck support everywhere. Puck carrier's got 2 people supporting him at all times. Different breakout, different neutral zone configuration. All things I've wanted to see since last February. Better late than never, I guess.

What I still do not like is that Jeffrey gets into the lineup, plays great, then gets benched for his trouble because Shero put in a waiver claim on a bubble guy. If Bylsma still insists on having Boychuk in the lineup, then he should at least scratch Kennedy to get DJ back in there. Not using Kennedy anyway.
I'm not even sure what to say when the Pens get into streaks where they play bad. They have a bad streak of about 10 games almost every year and every time its almost the same carbon copy mistakes. Its almost like they're trying out a 2nd system because when they get on their horse it looks like totally different hockey.

The start to this season looked exactly the same as the garbage hockey the Pens played to kick off 2010/2011 and last Jan. I guess the good news is that they come out of it like gang busters.

Another thing I think we all forget about Disco is that he's in his toddler stage as a coach. Maybe that explains some ups and downs. Maybe his next stage is adapting. I'm thinking thats a hard part of the game because even some very good coaches don't do it.

Does anyone know Disco's coaching history? I know he was with the Isles and WB for a little while but any kind of juniors or NCAA work. Something where he has to come up with tweats to systems every year because he's always having a different team.

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02-03-2013, 11:25 PM
  #775
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Clearly shaving off that ridiculous goatee was the only adjustment this team needed. The results speak for themselves.

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