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Most underrated hockey players of all time

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Old
01-31-2013, 03:49 PM
  #251
ushvinder
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Bobby's Orr's peak is underrated, his GVT and goals for/goals against ratio are just insane, arguably the most dominant athlete of any team sport.

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02-01-2013, 04:09 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
1. Brian Propp
2. Rick Middleton
3. JG Talbot
4. Rod Langway (I know he's in the HoF but you rarely see his name bought up in any discussions)
5. Ed Westfall
6. Rogie Vachon
7. Don Marcotte
8. Calle Johanson
9. Camille Henry
10. Jimmy Thomson

Not really underrated but should get more acolytes: Bobby Baun
Bruin who's underrated by Bruins fans: Eddie Johnston
Yeah this is a good list because it mentions players who are forgotten and not considered stars. You can't really say that Howe or Orr or even 90s stars like Recchi and Brind'Amour are underrated, people know them quite well. It's players like Iafrate or Wayne Cashman that are forgotten.

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02-01-2013, 04:21 PM
  #253
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Dave Andreychuk is heavily underrated. His ability in front of the net in his prime put Holmstrom to shame. The fact that he scored 640 goals over his career and still isn't in the hall is staggering.

In defense of the Hall, though, the number of HoF eligible players from the last 7 or 8 seasons that deserved to make it far outweights the number of possible inductees over that period of time, though I still think that the mix-up in 2010 where only Ciccarelli, Granato and Angela James were selected (supposedly the voters thought they could still only vote for/induct 4 players total, not 4 males and 2 females as is the actual rule) is also partly to blame.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:41 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Dave Andreychuk is heavily underrated. His ability in front of the net in his prime put Holmstrom to shame. The fact that he scored 640 goals over his career and still isn't in the hall is staggering.

In defense of the Hall, though, the number of HoF eligible players from the last 7 or 8 seasons that deserved to make it far outweights the number of possible inductees over that period of time, though I still think that the mix-up in 2010 where only Ciccarelli, Granato and Angela James were selected (supposedly the voters thought they could still only vote for/induct 4 players total, not 4 males and 2 females as is the actual rule) is also partly to blame.
Andreychuk should not be in the hall. But he will be inducted in the next few years thanks to Gartner, Ciccerelli, Nieuwendyk and other questionable inductions.


Last edited by Evincar: 02-01-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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02-01-2013, 06:02 PM
  #255
Darth Yoda
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Originally Posted by calahanzoer View Post
Never hear anything about Håkan Loob. He is/was huge here in sweden but he is the only swede who has scored over 50 goals in the NHL. It's a shame he didn't stay in the NHL...
Håkan Loob is an overrated guy here in Sweden which happened to play during the high scoring eighties in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Dave Andreychuk is heavily underrated. His ability in front of the net in his prime put Holmstrom to shame. The fact that he scored 640 goals over his career and still isn't in the hall is staggering.

In defense of the Hall, though, the number of HoF eligible players from the last 7 or 8 seasons that deserved to make it far outweights the number of possible inductees over that period of time, though I still think that the mix-up in 2010 where only Ciccarelli, Granato and Angela James were selected (supposedly the voters thought they could still only vote for/induct 4 players total, not 4 males and 2 females as is the actual rule) is also partly to blame.
What are you kidding me, you actually think the voters never caught on to that rule? Dave Andreychuk is a compiler that does not belong in the Hall.

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02-02-2013, 03:03 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by calahanzoer View Post
Never hear anything about Håkan Loob. He is/was huge here in sweden but he is the only swede who has scored 50 goals in the NHL. It's a shame he didn't stay in the NHL...
Fixed

No swedish player has ever scored MORE than 50 goals in the regular season. Doubt any ever will.

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02-02-2013, 04:50 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Bobby's Orr's peak is underrated, his GVT and goals for/goals against ratio are just insane, arguably the most dominant athlete of any team sport.
Oh c'mon. How is Orr underrated by being rocksolid in the top 4? Orr's peak or prime are below Gretzky no matter how you look at it. Lemieux is debatable. Orr has Howe beaten on peak, but Howe had 10 more years of prime than Orr ever played. My top four is is Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux. On my top 100 players like Lindros, Forsberg and Ovechkin have no place. I value longevity and staying healthy as a very important factor for any employee.

I nominate:

Jere Lehtinen !!!
Teemu Selänne
Pekka Rautakallio
Reijo RUotsalainen !
Matti Hagman
Raimo Helminen


Last edited by Merya: 02-02-2013 at 05:02 AM.
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Old
02-02-2013, 05:28 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Håkan Loob is an overrated guy here in Sweden which happened to play during the high scoring eighties in the NHL.
also happened to be a First Team All Star in 1987–88 on the RW in front of prime Hall of Famers Cam Neely, Jari Kurri, Joe Mullen and Glenn Anderson, but I guess that must have been the fault of the high scoring 80s

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Old
02-02-2013, 11:23 AM
  #259
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Ron Francis
Rick Middleton
Peter Stastny
Steve Larmer
Henri Richard
Rick Martin
Wayne Cashman
Walt Tkaczuk
Brad Park
Peter Mahovlich

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Old
02-02-2013, 11:56 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Steve French View Post
I would totally disagree and say most people do realize how good he was considering he is ranked the 3rd greatest of all time, not exactly underrated, maybe underappreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merya View Post
Oh c'mon. How is Orr underrated by being rocksolid in the top 4? Orr's peak or prime are below Gretzky no matter how you look at it. Lemieux is debatable. Orr has Howe beaten on peak, but Howe had 10 more years of prime than Orr ever played. My top four is is Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Lemieux. On my top 100 players like Lindros, Forsberg and Ovechkin have no place. I value longevity and staying healthy as a very important factor for any employee.

I nominate:

Jere Lehtinen !!!
Teemu Selänne
Pekka Rautakallio
Reijo RUotsalainen !
Matti Hagman
Raimo Helminen
Ovechkin started his career by being named the best at his position five years in a row. That's a level of dominance that we see from few players whether they play 5 years or 25 years. IMHO he's a top-three LW of all-time.

"Notable" guys I think are notably underrated and haven't been mentioned or were barely mentioned (players who people know, but don't generally get the kind of credit they probably should):

Steve Yzerman
He was, for a three or four year span, considered "on par" with Gretzky and Lemieux. Hard to do, that.

Bernie Nicholls
He has over 1200 points in just over 1100 GP. He played less than 1.5 seasons with Gretzky on a different line; and notably, people don't give Messier a demerit for being Gretzky's 2C. Messier gets the "Oh, he probably would have scored MORE." Nicholls was almost PPG over 1001GP when not Gretzky's teammate, playing from the 80s through the DPE, and changing his role from scoring center to checking center. Guy should be in the Hall and instead his name is tossed around with Blair MacDonald.

Bryan Trottier
I've recently come to this conclusion in other discussions. People, at least on here, seem to consider the Isles dynasty a product of Bossy+Potvin (or sometimes Bossy+Potvin+Smith). Trottier is usually tossed in as an afterthought, and stuff is like "He had a great winger and defenseman playing with him", etc. Like that season he scored over 120 points and getting a 1st team nom while nobody else on the team cleared 100. Or the season he cleared 120, Bossy hit 140+, and Potvin scored 61(?). And those weren't even his best years. His best season saw him winning the Art Ross and Hart trophies and hitting 1st team for the second consecutive season.

Chris Chelios
Look at the Chelios/Leetch/Housley and Chelios/Pronger/Stevens polls. The fact that Leetch and Stevens are getting votes ahead of Chelios is an absolutely insane suggestion to anyone who actually watched them all play during their careers. I'll leave the long-winded argument about that stuff for those threads.

Jari Kurri
Another of the "Played with Gretzky" crowd. He's been mentioned, but I feel it's important to give details. Kurri succeeded with Gretzky for several reasons. He had an excellent shot and could be the triggerman for an amazing playmaker. He was incredible defensively, which meant that a) a slow-skating Gretzky could stay out on the ice longer/go out more often by not tiring himself out on the backcheck as much, and b) Paul Coffey could pinch quite a bit more, with Kurri easily slipping down to cover if necessary. He was excellent as the 1C in LA when Gretzky was injured in 1992-93, and was instrumental in Robitaille's career year. But most importantly in his ability to succeed alongside Gretzky? He could think the game well enough that he didn't get left behind. He knew what Gretzky was going to do. People talk about hockey IQ; Kurri had amazing hockey IQ. A player with all of his physical talents but the hockey IQ of Dion Phaneuf would have been maybe a 30-40 goal scorer on Gretzky's wing. Not a 70-goal scorer.

"Forgotten" guys (I'll go with recent guys) who are underrated and haven't been/were barely mentioned:

Steve Rucchin
Excellent defensive center, good skater, and good physical presence who made it possible for Teemu Selanne and Paul Kariya to excel together for many years in Anaheim.

Mattias Norstrom
One of the league's top defensive defensemen for years with the Kings, overshadowed by teammate Rob Blake's offense and physical game, despite his less than stellar defensive game.

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:38 PM
  #261
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Sergei Zubov- the guy didnt even crack the top 60 on the best defensemen of all-time list on these boards when Scott Niedermayer was about 20th. Point proven.

Jere Lehtinen
Petr Stastny
Ray Whitney
Craig Hartsburg

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #262
DisgruntledGoat
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Steve Yzerman
He was, for a three or four year span, considered "on par" with Gretzky and Lemieux. Hard to do, that.
1. Yzerman is overrated.

2. I find your criteria interesting, 'considered 'on par' with Gretzky and Lemieux. By who? You? And regardless, its interesting coming from a poster who constantly bashes Messier, a player who actually WAS considered on par with Gretzky and Lemieux (Conn Smythe over 99, Harts/Pearsons/All-star berths over both).

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02-02-2013, 03:26 PM
  #263
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Chris Chelios
Look at the Chelios/Leetch/Housley and Chelios/Pronger/Stevens polls. The fact that Leetch and Stevens are getting votes ahead of Chelios is an absolutely insane suggestion to anyone who actually watched them all play during their careers. I'll leave the long-winded argument about that stuff for those threads.
i don't think too many people underrate trottier's contributions to the isles dynasty. i mean, isn't he consensus #2 or at worst 2a with bossy?

but definitely people tend to forget just how great peak chelios was, similar to the "howe effect," also arguably messier, where the longevity eclipses the ridiculously high level of play. of all defensemen i've seen, peak chelios in terms of his impact on the game is behind only bourque. an argument can be made that he's 2a with 2000 pronger, but even then i think i'd go with chelios. (i saw robinson and potvin, but not at their peaks.) yes, that includes lidstrom, though the margin is small.

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02-02-2013, 04:03 PM
  #264
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I would say Dale Hawerchuk is one of the first to come to mind. Never got the attention in Winnipeg. I don't know, maybe Andy Bathgate as well?

I think currently you may have to say Martin St. Louis. Yes he is well known, but he has always been the constant star on those Tampa teams. Others have gotten some more attention. Richards won the Conn Smythe, Lecavalier won the Richard and Stamkos burst into the NHL scoring from day one practically and has already led the NHL in goals twice. St. Louis has always been involved and in many ways is the player with the quieter success. In the 2011 playoffs he gets his teeth knocked out and doesn't miss a beat and yet he's still a Lady Byng nominee. That's a player.

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02-02-2013, 05:24 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Steve Yzerman
He was, for a three or four year span, considered "on par" with Gretzky and Lemieux. Hard to do, that.
That's just wrong.

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02-02-2013, 05:35 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Sergei Zubov- the guy didnt even crack the top 60 on the best defensemen of all-time list on these boards when Scott Niedermayer was about 20th. Point proven.

Jere Lehtinen
Petr Stastny
Ray Whitney
Craig Hartsburg
33rd is "about 20th" huh?

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Old
02-02-2013, 09:26 PM
  #267
Long Duk Dong
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Yzerman was never on par with Wayne and Mario. It was just 99 and 66.

I won't say underrated, but guys like these seem to get lost in the shuffle. Tim Kerr, Trottier, Mike Liut, Hextall, Stastny, Bondra, Kevin Stevens, etc.

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02-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
1. Yzerman is overrated.

2. I find your criteria interesting, 'considered 'on par' with Gretzky and Lemieux. By who? You? And regardless, its interesting coming from a poster who constantly bashes Messier, a player who actually WAS considered on par with Gretzky and Lemieux (Conn Smythe over 99, Harts/Pearsons/All-star berths over both).
In another thread, I forget which one, a poster had dug up an article from the 1990 ASG regarding the Hart favorites. The article mentioned none of Yzerman, Gretzky, or Lemieux among Hart favorites (IIRC it picked LaFontaine, Bourque, Messier) but did specify them as the best players. As I said, I don't recall the specific wording.

In 1987-88, Steve Yzerman was considered the favorite for the Hart trophy when he barreled into the goal post knee-first, ending his regular season.

In particular, I recall an issue of THN (I think) that featured a cover with an image of Yzerman, an image of Lemieux, and an image of Gretzky, and the question "Who's the best?" laid over the images.

In 1988-89, Steve Yzerman outscored Wayne Gretzky at even strength during Gretzky's prime and was only one point behind Lemieux at even strength. He won the Pearson that year.

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02-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #269
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[QUOTE=eva unit zero;58935137]In another thread, I forget which one, a poster had dug up an article from the 1990 ASG regarding the Hart favorites. The article mentioned none of Yzerman, Gretzky, or Lemieux among Hart favorites (IIRC it picked LaFontaine, Bourque, Messier) but did specify them as the best players. As I said, I don't recall the specific wording.

In 1987-88, Steve Yzerman was considered the favorite for the Hart trophy when he barreled into the goal post knee-first, ending his regular season.

In particular, I recall an issue of THN (I think) that featured a cover with an image of Yzerman, an image of Lemieux, and an image of Gretzky, and the question "Who's the best?" laid over the images.

In 1988-89, Steve Yzerman outscored Wayne Gretzky at even strength during Gretzky's prime and was only one point behind Lemieux at even strength. He won the Pearson that year.[/QUOTE]

You do realize that pp/pk is an important part of hockey too right?

I own an issue of Sports Illustrated from 88 or 89 with Mario on the cover and a headline that reads "As great as Gretzky?". I don't recall the one with Yzerman, maybe I missed that issue.

Yzerman wasn't underrated at all. It was always Mario and Wayne flip flopping, but Steve as the 3rd best center was quite a few notches below them.

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02-02-2013, 10:37 PM
  #270
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In terms of stats Peter Stasney and Denis Savard?

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Old
02-03-2013, 12:24 AM
  #271
DisgruntledGoat
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
In another thread, I forget which one, a poster had dug up an article from the 1990 ASG regarding the Hart favorites. The article mentioned none of Yzerman, Gretzky, or Lemieux among Hart favorites (IIRC it picked LaFontaine, Bourque, Messier) but did specify them as the best players. As I said, I don't recall the specific wording.

In 1987-88, Steve Yzerman was considered the favorite for the Hart trophy when he barreled into the goal post knee-first, ending his regular season.

In particular, I recall an issue of THN (I think) that featured a cover with an image of Yzerman, an image of Lemieux, and an image of Gretzky, and the question "Who's the best?" laid over the images.

In 1988-89, Steve Yzerman outscored Wayne Gretzky at even strength during Gretzky's prime and was only one point behind Lemieux at even strength. He won the Pearson that year.
Sooo. . . in another thread, you throw Messier's two Harts out the window (shouldn't have won) and his Edmonton accomplishments (riding Gretzky's coattails) but now your proof that Steve Yzerman was 'on par' with Gretzky and Lemieux is A) Something you read on a messageboard and B) a magazine cover?

Interesting that you mention the Pearson, though. . . in your complaining about Messier's Hart wins, I was starting to think you forgot that trophy existed

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02-03-2013, 12:29 AM
  #272
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Brian Propp

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02-03-2013, 12:34 AM
  #273
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Also Tim Kerr...guy had 4 straight seasons of 54, 54, 58, 58 goals.

also Dennis Maruk. Alot of people think he's a 1 season wonder, but he was always very solid and a good all around scorer. Point per game player

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02-03-2013, 12:34 PM
  #274
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Robert Svehla was a pretty great all-around defender who never gets talked about. Not a Norris contender, but he was a rock back there for some bad Florida teams. I heard Rhett Warrener on the radio recently, saying that Florida basically played 5-on-4 when Bure was on the ice, and that the only reason Bure got so many breakaways was because Svehla was so ridiculously good at breaking up plays and passing the puck up to him.

Also: Todd Marchant. In his prime, one of the best checking centers of his era and he never got as much as a pity vote for the Selke. In particular, it was a crime that he wasn't even nominated in 2001, a year he was good enough to win. Also, flat-out the fastest skater of the era.

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02-03-2013, 12:40 PM
  #275
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
Robert Svehla was a pretty great all-around defender who never gets talked about. Not a Norris contender, but he was a rock back there for some bad Florida teams. I heard Rhett Warrener on the radio recently, saying that Florida basically played 5-on-4 when Bure was on the ice, and that the only reason Bure got so many breakaways was because Svehla was so ridiculously good at breaking up plays and passing the puck up to him.

Also: Todd Marchant. In his prime, one of the best checking centers of his era and he never got as much as a pity vote for the Selke. In particular, it was a crime that he wasn't even nominated in 2001, a year he was good enough to win. Also, flat-out the fastest skater of the era.
This is not true. Marchant's Selke record:

2000: 8th (Todd Marchant 53 (2-3-2-0-2))
2001: 10th (Todd Marchant, EDM 46 (1-2-4-0-2))
2003: 7th (Todd Marchant 87 (1-4-6-4-7))
2007: 59th (Todd Marchant, ANA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)) tied with a lot of other players with a single "pity vote?"
2008: 49th (Todd Marchant, ANA 5 (0-0-1-0-0)). ditto, only this time it was a 3rd place vote

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