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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
02-03-2013, 10:26 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Hard to really say given that he has what, 4-5 games under his belt this season?
What do I believe is that the Leafs (or any team) don't suddenly get management pressure because of a few good or bad games.

If it becomes a trend where leafs are leading their division of course they won't pursue, but if it is like years past where they've gotten streaky goaltending, why wouldn't they upgrade it at the right price.




Ok let's get a few facts straight; Luongo is 33 right now TURNING 34 at the end of this year, there's no way we're keeping him for an additional 2-3 years. The OP was just saying until the offseason. Next up goaltenders are able to play at a higher level, for longer, yeah he may have "200k miles" but if they car is able to go 500k miles then the value is still there.
They may be capable of playing until 40 but very few, if any are as good at 40 as 34. It's prime years. And Lou is 34 in exactly 2 month

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02-03-2013, 10:30 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Hard to really say given that he has what, 4-5 games under his belt this season?
What do I believe is that the Leafs (or any team) don't suddenly get management pressure because of a few good or bad games.

If it becomes a trend where leafs are leading their division of course they won't pursue, but if it is like years past where they've gotten streaky goaltending, why wouldn't they upgrade it at the right price.




Ok let's get a few facts straight; Luongo is 33 right now TURNING 34 at the end of this year, there's no way we're keeping him for an additional 2-3 years. The OP was just saying until the offseason. Next up goaltenders are able to play at a higher level, for longer, yeah he may have "200k miles" but if they car is able to go 500k miles then the value is still there.
Your 200k/500k analogy is way way off base.

It's more like 200k on the meter with about 83k good miles left in the tank.

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02-03-2013, 10:32 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Aside from after the Gionta hit, he's played very well. He posted a .921 save% in his rookie year.
I'm not saying his rookie stats aren't bad, .921% SV pretty good, even if his GAA is a bit high at 2.60, but he played what, 37 games? It becomes difficult to maintain those numbers over a season as the "number 1".

So he has proven to be an excellent backup managing good numbers on a defensively weakened team, but he needs to prove his number 1 status over the duration of a full 82 game season playing 55-65 games and keeping those numbers.

I think that's were the big question mark lays.

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02-03-2013, 10:37 AM
  #329
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I'm not saying his rookie stats aren't bad, .921% SV pretty good, even if his GAA is a bit high at 2.60, but he played what, 37 games? It becomes difficult to maintain those numbers over a season as the "number 1".

So he has proven to be an excellent backup managing good numbers on a defensively weakened team, but he needs to prove his number 1 status over the duration of a full 82 game season playing 55-65 games and keeping those numbers.

I think that's were the big question mark lays.
Actually the big question is, was that 37 game stretch more of a fluke and could he sustain that once the book is out on him.

The problems lays with the injury he suffered, he never got a chance to prove himself capable or not.

This is the perfect kind of season to hand him the ball and see what a healthy JR can do.

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02-03-2013, 10:39 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Reimer now has a .922 save%. The Leafs are out of any Luongo "Sweepstakes".
The Leafs were never in it. According to 2 Vancouver reporters Lu told MG that he didn't want to play for the Leafs and since he has a NTC, he will not be going to TO. MG is simply trying to create a market to get Tallon to increase his offer.
Also, Reimer's stats are after 4 games. We all knowwhat where they will be at the end of the season but keep plugging the most important position with unproven goalies, its worked so far.

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02-03-2013, 10:40 AM
  #331
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They may be capable of playing until 40 but very few, if any are as good at 40 as 34. It's prime years. And Lou is 34 in exactly 2 month
When I said end of year, I mean the hockey year. He won't be 35-36 at the off season, that's for sure. I just think with goaltending it's a different game, there are goalies that fall way off the map at 25 and other goalies that hold strong until late 30's early 40's.

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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Your 200k/500k analogy is way way off base.

It's more like 200k on the meter with about 83k good miles left in the tank.
How do you know? Just as I can't say he will be an all-star goaltender until 42 when his contract ends, you cant say he'll be useless/non-elite in a year or two.

All I can say is history has favored goaltenders to play at a higher level, longer, than any other position. Roloson, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour, Hedberg, and others have had successful years in the late 30's.

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Originally Posted by ZKassian9 View Post
The Leafs were never in it. According to 2 Vancouver reporters Lu told MG that he didn't want to play for the Leafs and since he has a NTC, he will not be going to TO. MG is simply trying to create a market to get Tallon to increase his offer.
Also, Reimer's stats are after 4 games. We all knowwhat where they will be at the end of the season but keep plugging the most important position with unproven goalies, its worked so far.
Did you real those quotes fully? Jason Botchford said Gillis had a deal lined up at Draft last year, brought it to Luongo which he said he preferred if Gillis tried to make a deal with Florida a bit more, once Florida dropped more and more out of the picture, Luongo gave him the "green light to pretty much do what he wants" which I read as "Here's a list of teams I WONT go to, other than that, have at 'er."

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02-03-2013, 10:55 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Let's be realistic here. Detroit was insanely lucky and no team can ever truly mimic what they accomplished short of equally improbable luck. They drafted three phenomenal players and that more or less cemented their success for the next two decades. They have some good prospects but had all the time in the world to wait around. No team can emulating that. In fact, the Wings can't.

I appreciate the mentality of a perennial contender but I also want to challenge for the cup.
Unless Jensen and Kassian emerge as superstars, our best opportunity is now. If that means moving Schneider, then do so and either see how Lack pans out, draft a new goaltender or acquire one through trade. Luongo is liable to give us upwards of seven years of good goaltending. We have plenty of time. The same cannot be said of the Sedin era.


The bold statement there does not outline something that is mutually exclusive. The current team is strong enough to challenge for the cup. It really hasn't changed much from the 2011 squad. In fact, Gillis mentioned this exact viewpoint in his interview with Duthie last week. Meanwhile, they are slowly starting to stock their cupboards. Kassian is doing well. Schroeder has done a good job too. Now they wait on Jensen, Gaunce, Corrado, Lack and others... They are winning _and_ building.


Fact is, you don't need Jensen or Kassian to emerge as superstars to extend your window. You just need them to be contributing NHLers in the positions they are expected to fill: Top6 forwards.


Detroit was lucky picking up Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the later rounds. That part of the equation is far-fetched, I agree. Teams aren't going to do this without getting extremely lucky. But that's not why DET were able to extend their window, not nearly. They extended their window with excellent supplementary talent so as to make the entire team strong. Many good draft/FA choices were made beyond Dats and Z. As a result, every game they played, they played with a comparative advantage. They were just deeper than most teams every time out - and that's the reason they constantly contended.









Usually certain teams have 2-3 core players that they build around. You can draft them, buy them or trade for them. The GMs usually allocate the most money to them, so there are few that you can have on any one team. It's the other pieces that determine if your team is strong on the whole or if it's top-heavy and weak. That's the difference.


Look at St. Louis. Their best player was a top4 pick (Petriangelo). Beyond him, it's all smart late 1st round picks (Perron, Oshie), good 2nd round picks (Backes), good trades (Shattenkirk, Stewart, Steen, D'Agostini) and you have the makings of a contender. Did they get super lucky? Or was this shrewd management + drafting?


This "window" stuff is garbage. If you have smart management and good scouts (not even great), you can keep your team competitive for a very long time. That's Detroit's real secret to success, not lucking out with two late round picks, although they did help a lot. Thinking it was just D and Z discounts the brilliance of their management IMO, which deserves the real praise.

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02-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #333
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I don't think the Leafs thought they were exactly in win mode just this last off season... Not much has changed, in fact it likely looks more positive for this season to make the playoffs and do some damage, given the short season and the success of the rookies.

I just have a feeling that Bell/Rogers under MSLE are putting some pressure on Nonis to make the playoffs "however possible". If he can do it without Luongo, great that's awesome, or maybe he acquires it through J. Bernier, they just want playoff tv views. The deeper the run, the more money they'll make.
Your feeling couldn't be further from reality. Burke had to be under the gun because of how long he's been there, by firing him before the season, they've given Nonis the freedom to do as he sees fit. His first moves were to clear a couple veterans who most likely would not be back next year, to give youth the opportunity to play.

Every move that Nonis has made has been an indication to building long term. They weren't prepared to part with the asking price for Luongo in the offseason, and they're certainly not going to be prepared to part with the asking price mid-season, especially when Vancouver isn't even in a position to trade him for what they would have wanted in the offseason.

Maybe, had the opportunity come to get Luongo at a cost that didn't impact our roster with any substance (think Connolly, Kadri or Frattin, Blacker), we would've tried to accelerate the build, but that didn't happen. We went in a different direction, and the likes of Kadri/Frattin are quickly entrenching themselves as part of that long term plan. They're our leading scorers.

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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
I'm not saying his rookie stats aren't bad, .921% SV pretty good, even if his GAA is a bit high at 2.60, but he played what, 37 games? It becomes difficult to maintain those numbers over a season as the "number 1".

So he has proven to be an excellent backup managing good numbers on a defensively weakened team, but he needs to prove his number 1 status over the duration of a full 82 game season playing 55-65 games and keeping those numbers.

I think that's were the big question mark lays.
Actually, if you knew what went on outside of Vancouver, Reimer was #1 for a 1/2 season in his rookie year. He didn't get his 37 games like Schneider got his 33 last year (playing the weaker teams when Luongo needed a rest, going on a few short stretches as the #1 when he was hot), he made his first start on New Years day, and played in 37 of his team's 46 games.... which is basically a #1 workload. (figuring that a good #1 will play 62-63 games, or 75% of the time)

Of course, we should reasonably expect that those numbers would deteriorate when given the workload of 60 games at the NHL level, as opposed to 52 games with 1/3 at the AHL level, but his 37 games was representative of a #1 goaltender's games for a little bit more than a 1/2 season.


Last edited by seanlinden: 02-03-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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Old
02-03-2013, 11:04 AM
  #334
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Your 200k/500k analogy is way way off base.

It's more like 200k on the meter with about 83k good miles left in the tank.
Lol I was going to say the same thing. Luongo's played his best hockey. He's only going to go downhill with age.

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02-03-2013, 11:07 AM
  #335
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Guys, i think it is safe to say that TO is out. Reimer has played well, and Kadri and Frattin have been 2 of our best....add to that the price it would cost and it just doesn't make any sense. If Reimer continues to play at a .915+ pace and Kadri keeps playing well, then Luongo is getting much smaller in the mirror. I agree that Luongo has been great, but goaltending is not losing us games right now so why pay a big price?

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02-03-2013, 11:26 AM
  #336
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Guys, i think it is safe to say that TO is out. Reimer has played well, and Kadri and Frattin have been 2 of our best....add to that the price it would cost and it just doesn't make any sense. If Reimer continues to play at a .915+ pace and Kadri keeps playing well, then Luongo is getting much smaller in the mirror. I agree that Luongo has been great, but goaltending is not losing us games right now so why pay a big price?
I think its been a while since we've known he isn't going to Toronto. And nothing has really changed, I don't think Canucks fans would want Bozak, Frattin plus whatever junk was said to come along.

Watch Luongo play and tell me with a straight face if half the proposals you saw here weren't a joke. Luongo is playing like a top 3 goalie again ( only Anderson has been better to start) and is the only reason Vancouver got points in the games he's played. The team is a shadow of its old self.

Give Vancouver Reimer/Scivens and the only game they might have won is the Colorado game. This is a team living off its goaltending. The Anaheim game shows you what happens when the goalie is slightly off.

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02-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #337
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I think its been a while since we've known he isn't going to Toronto. And nothing has really changed, I don't think Canucks fans would want Bozak, Frattin plus whatever junk was said to come along.

Watch Luongo play and tell me with a straight face if half the proposals you saw here weren't a joke. Luongo is playing like a top 3 goalie again ( only Anderson has been better to start) and is the only reason Vancouver got points in the games he's played. The team is a shadow of its old self.

Give Vancouver Reimer/Scivens and the only game they might have won is the Colorado game. This is a team living off its goaltending. The Anaheim game shows you what happens when the goalie is slightly off.
I'll agree with you, but i feel i must mention Reimer has a .922 save% right now on a much lesser team. I get Luongo is playing great, i get you feel his value is huge.....nobody is going to pay it though. If the Leafs were to pay what most think he is worth, we fill 1 hole by creating many.

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02-03-2013, 11:40 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I'll agree with you, but i feel i must mention Reimer has a .922 save% right now on a much lesser team. I get Luongo is playing great, i get you feel his value is huge.....nobody is going to pay it though. If the Leafs were to pay what most think he is worth, we fill 1 hole by creating many.


Nobody is going to pay anything right now. Every team has a shot. Every team thinks they can win, or there is enough time to win.


Again, making any kind of call on this is premature at best. We won't know what's what until 15 to 20 games in. Not that I think TOR is in, I don't, but you can't speak for other teams LL (but you have, on many occasions). That's something you should just leave well enough alone. Don't sink to the level of some of the other porous posters in here.


Right now, everyone can talk like they have a shot. Let's wait and see what happens. Only then will the picture become clearer, and the needs of teams more apparent. Many VAN fans have already gotten used to the idea of carrying both goaltenders through to the offseason. So let's see what the landscape is like then without jumping the gun, as easy as that is to do.

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02-03-2013, 11:41 AM
  #339
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Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC

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Spotted at PIT/WASH today: Mike Gillis and assistant Laurence Gilman

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02-03-2013, 11:42 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I'll agree with you, but i feel i must mention Reimer has a .922 save% right now on a much lesser team. I get Luongo is playing great, i get you feel his value is huge.....nobody is going to pay it though. If the Leafs were to pay what most think he is worth, we fill 1 hole by creating many.
The point is Vancouver plays no better defence than most teams in the league. It would be interesting to see how many quality chances they give up a game and compare that to other teams. The way Vancouver is playing I wouldn't say Toronto is a lesser team, Vancouver just has much better goaltending.

And I don't mind Toronto not wanting to pay to improve their team, it's why most feel he isn't going there anyways. Funny thing is I think your team is actually not that bad. Improve your goaltending, which would allow your team to play more freely.

I know a lot of your fans want to tank/ "rebuild" so hopefully you start piling on the losses.

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02-03-2013, 11:43 AM
  #341
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Did you real those quotes fully? Jason Botchford said Gillis had a deal lined up at Draft last year, brought it to Luongo which he said he preferred if Gillis tried to make a deal with Florida a bit more, once Florida dropped more and more out of the picture, Luongo gave him the "green light to pretty much do what he wants" which I read as "Here's a list of teams I WONT go to, other than that, have at 'er."
Gallagher also said it.
If you were Lu in the prime of your career with a full NTC, would you go to a losing team in TO with the same brutal media.

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02-03-2013, 11:50 AM
  #342
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Your feeling couldn't be further from reality. Burke had to be under the gun because of how long he's been there, by firing him before the season, they've given Nonis the freedom to do as he sees fit. His first moves were to clear a couple veterans who most likely would not be back next year, to give youth the opportunity to play.

Every move that Nonis has made has been an indication to building long term. They weren't prepared to part with the asking price for Luongo in the offseason, and they're certainly not going to be prepared to part with the asking price mid-season, especially when Vancouver isn't even in a position to trade him for what they would have wanted in the offseason.

Maybe, had the opportunity come to get Luongo at a cost that didn't impact our roster with any substance (think Connolly, Kadri or Frattin, Blacker), we would've tried to accelerate the build, but that didn't happen. We went in a different direction, and the likes of Kadri/Frattin are quickly entrenching themselves as part of that long term plan. They're our leading scorers.
Why fire him just before season star? There were tons of opportunities to do so.
It just happened to coincide with the Bell/Rogers acquisition? Don't think so. MLSE is a company that is out to make money, Playoffs is where you make money especially with a fan base as big as the leafs.

I haven't talked about price or what the Canucks would want, there has been reports but nothing right from Gillis/Nonis' mouth. Your prospects are doing well, Reimer is looking solid for now, why change that up?


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Actually, if you knew what went on outside of Vancouver, Reimer was #1 for a 1/2 season in his rookie year. He didn't get his 37 games like Schneider got his 33 last year (playing the weaker teams when Luongo needed a rest, going on a few short stretches as the #1 when he was hot), he made his first start on New Years day, and played in 37 of his team's 46 games.... which is basically a #1 workload. (figuring that a good #1 will play 62-63 games, or 75% of the time)

Of course, we should reasonably expect that those numbers would deteriorate when given the workload of 60 games at the NHL level, as opposed to 52 games with 1/3 at the AHL level, but his 37 games was representative of a #1 goaltender's games for a little bit more than a 1/2 season.
A bit insulted are we? Resorting to personal attacks? Whatever helps you sleep at night, here's the facts Reimer played 37 games in that season and due to multiple factors he didn't play number 1 games, and thus didn't maintain number 1 results.

He has the potential to, but until he makes it a reality it's just projection/potential.

As for Schneider, I don't believe he's proven himself to be number 1 either, many reporters believe he's ready and can handle the work load but again until he proves it, I'm not claiming anything.

Schneider, by the way, didn't just the play the easy games and has faced teams like Chicago, Boston, etc.

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02-03-2013, 11:51 AM
  #343
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Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
To
Luongo
Raymond
Corrado

To
Backstrom

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02-03-2013, 11:54 AM
  #344
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Both of them are there? Wow, interesting. Is WSH ready to do something significant here? They have the assets...


Edit: 27 goals against with 18 for, for WSH up to this point.

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02-03-2013, 11:55 AM
  #345
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
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VAN GM Mike Gillis and asst GM Laurence Gilman taking in the WSH-PIT game today in D.C.

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02-03-2013, 11:56 AM
  #346
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Both of them are there? Wow, interesting. Is WSH ready to do something significant here? They have the assets...


Edit: 27 goals against with 18 for, for WSH up to this point.
Luongo
Raymond or Higgins

I could see being apart of the package, I honestly believe Raymond is more suited for Eastern style of hockey, fast paced, low priority of defense, allowing him to flourish more.

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02-03-2013, 12:00 PM
  #347
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I've never heard of Gillis/Gillman ever at another teams game (unless they were also on a similar road trip). Canucks play in Edmonton on Monday so this cannot be unrelated to some major discussions.

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02-03-2013, 12:03 PM
  #348
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I've never heard of Gillis/Gillman ever at another teams game (unless they were also on a similar road trip). Canucks play in Edmonton on Monday so this cannot be unrelated to some major discussions.
For sure they're scouting; no doubt about it.
Caps are 2nd in league for allowing shots;
4th in the league allowing goals against...

They're core is similar aged to the Canucks in that they could be a cup contender with the right pieces added... I think we should pay close attention to this Caps/Pens game

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02-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #349
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Ovie for Luongo

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02-03-2013, 12:05 PM
  #350
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Ahhhhh! Ryan Kesler is skating with the Canucks this is too much news for one day!

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Ovie for Luongo
Oh God, please no :S haha.

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