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Old
02-03-2013, 11:17 AM
  #151
Heaton
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
8 of them have been on special teams, though. Doesn't exactly make him a pillar of strength at even strength, but our special teams problems go beyond Kronwall.
And a majority of those have been on Howard.

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02-03-2013, 11:28 AM
  #152
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What's disappointing is Smith looked great out there before his injury. Its no surprise the team was completely terrible when we lost him.
Yeah, it's another example of over-ripeness biting us in the ass. After only a handful of games Smith was showing good defensive play. I particularly liked his play as far as being physical in his own zone; not highlight hits but just solid positioning where he was able to headman the puck.

If he would have been up all last year like Babs wanted his defensive game would likely already be much better and we'd also likely be getting some offense from him. That seems to be taking a bit which makes sense given his first priority should be on making sure his defensive game is rock solid.

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02-03-2013, 12:18 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
And a majority of those have been on Howard.
Howard seems to be playing a bit small this year. He's made some nice stops, and he's been sniped by a bullet or two, but he also seems to be giving a bit more space for shooters to feel comfortable with it.

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02-03-2013, 12:20 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Howard seems to be playing a bit small this year. He's made some nice stops, and he's been sniped by a bullet or two, but he also seems to be giving a bit more space for shooters to feel comfortable with it.
I've always felt that Howard has been pretty bad on the PK. It's not a coincidence that the teams that generally have the best PKs have really good goalies.

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02-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I've always felt that Howard has been pretty bad on the PK. It's not a coincidence that the teams that generally have the best PKs have really good goalies.
Maybe, but I have a hard time reconciling how well he plays at ES and shootouts with being a poor goalie on the PK. He might be a bad fit for our pk, though. our PK rarely seems to settle down and just kill off powerplays.

The moment the other team gains the zone, our guys seem to run around a lot, forgetting their structure and being taken out of position. And it seems to happen too easily and too frequently.

Howard's probably a part of it, as is Kronwall. I'm not really sure who we have that I like on the PK, though. I think Emmerton is growing into a decent PKer. Helm, when he's healthy. Datsyuk, but we can't run him into the ground as a primary PKer. Miller, maybe.

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02-03-2013, 10:35 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Maybe, but I have a hard time reconciling how well he plays at ES and shootouts with being a poor goalie on the PK. He might be a bad fit for our pk, though. our PK rarely seems to settle down and just kill off powerplays.

The moment the other team gains the zone, our guys seem to run around a lot, forgetting their structure and being taken out of position. And it seems to happen too easily and too frequently.

Howard's probably a part of it, as is Kronwall. I'm not really sure who we have that I like on the PK, though. I think Emmerton is growing into a decent PKer. Helm, when he's healthy. Datsyuk, but we can't run him into the ground as a primary PKer. Miller, maybe.
I was just going to say, any goalie would look bad behind this train wreck of a PK. No structure, no discipline, no cohesion, no strategy, minimal effort, poor execution.

How many times this year have we seen the Wings get their stick on a puck while on the PK with a chance to clear it and either whiff completely or send it right at an opposing player for the keep?

The D has been ok at home, including on the PK. On the road they have been an absolute disaster. Howard hasn't been great but he hasn't had much to work with. Stopping 5+ breakaways a game, every game, is pretty much impossible.

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02-03-2013, 10:58 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I was just going to say, any goalie would look bad behind this train wreck of a PK. No structure, no discipline, no cohesion, no strategy, minimal effort, poor execution.

How many times this year have we seen the Wings get their stick on a puck while on the PK with a chance to clear it and either whiff completely or send it right at an opposing player for the keep?

The D has been ok at home, including on the PK. On the road they have been an absolute disaster. Howard hasn't been great but he hasn't had much to work with. Stopping 5+ breakaways a game, every game, is pretty much impossible.
Howard has never been good on the PK. It's not all Howard's fault or anything but he's always been subpar.

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02-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #158
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Lids was good at keeping the other team from getting the good shot. Stuart bailed Howard out a few times last year. This year he's on his own. I would give him mediocre grade at best and the D a failing grade

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02-18-2013, 06:43 AM
  #159
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One of our biggest problem right now is to get those point shots from the blueline to goal.

Against Minnesota, our defence had 17 shooting attempts with these results:

Attempts blocked - 9
Missed shots - 6
Shots on goal - 2

Kronwall - 0 shots on goal, 3 attempts blocked, 0 missed shots.
Ericsson - 0 shots on goal, 2 attempts blocked, 1 missed shot.
Quincey - 1 shot on goal, 0 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots.
Lashoff - 1 shot on goal, 1 attempt blocked, 1 missed shot.
White - 0 shots on goal, 3 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots.
Huskins - 0-0-0

Last game against the Ducks:

Kronwall - 0 shots on goal, 0 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots.
Ericsson - 1 shot on goal, 1 attempt blocked, 0 missed shots.
Quincey - 0 shots on goal, 2 attempts blocked, 0 missed shots.
Lashoff - 0-0-0
White - 1 shot on goal, 2 attempts blocked, 1 missed shot.
Kindl - 2 shots on goal, 0 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots.

4 shots on goal, 4 attempts blocked, 5 missed shots.

Against the Blues:
Kronwall - 1 shot on goal, 4 shots blocked, 1 missed shot
Quincey - 0 shots on goal, 4 shots blokced, 0 missed shots
White - 0-0-0
Kindl - 1 shot on goal, 3 shots blocked, 1 missed shot
Lashoff - 2 shots on goal, 0 shots blocked, 1 missed shot
Ericsson - 0 shots on goal, 3 shots blocked, 0 missed shots

4 shots on goal, 14 attempts blocked, 3 missed shots.

Last three game totals:

Kronwall, 1 shot on goal, 7 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots. (10% success)
White, 1 shot on goal, 5 attempts blocked, 3 missed shots. (11% success)
Quincey, 1 shot on goal, 6 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots. (11% success)
Ericsson, 1 shot on goal, 6 attempts blocked, 1 missed shot. (12% success)
Kindl - 3 shots on goal, 3 attempts blocked, 3 missed shots. (33% success)
Lashoff - 3 shots on goal, 1 attempt blocked, 2 missed shots. (50% success)
Huskins - 0-0-0

Our main PP quarterback has got one shot on goal in the last three games. Impressive. I think it's time replace Kronner immediately with Smith or Colaiacovo, when they come back. He is really the most important factor to our sucking powerplay. The QB has to get shots through, Kronwall has no clue what to do there right now, standing pat and trying hard slapshots isn't the answer. Every PK forward can take those shots away, when there's no movement.

Everyone who saw Lidström for 20 years knows, that sideways movement is THE KEY to open shooting lanes. Brendan Smith can do that, Ian White's mind tries to do that, but his hand's aren't enough. Cola was 1st PP QB for the Blues at last playoffs, maybe he can help. It's somebody else's turn to try. Kronwall has to concentrate on his defence and forget those main QB duties so far. That pressure just crushes him mentally.

Best guys getting shots through have been Kindl and Lashoff. Babcock benched the first one, and later is an innocent scapegoat in this board. This is going just crazy.

***

I really have to think starting a conspiracy, that our season goal is to tank, if we continue using those ineffective guys (like Cleary and Kronwall) game after game in wrong positions/duties. 20 games has to be a mark for changes. 5 to go on that mark.

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03-02-2013, 12:37 AM
  #160
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I really like the pairings and minute distribution Babs has gone with on defense the last 2 games. I know he has stated publicly he is pleased with the way they have played in those games as well. Hopefully he sticks with what he's been doing, I'm not really a fan of White to be honest.

I really liked the Kindl-Smith pairing on the Power Play the other night. Their mobility opened up shooting lanes and the cycle very nicely I thought.

I don't think Quincey is great, but he is playing better. Smith has been better, Kronwall has been better. Kindl when he is composed looks better.

Hopefully they can sustain some of the momentum they have right now.

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03-02-2013, 01:05 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I really like the pairings and minute distribution Babs has gone with on defense the last 2 games. I know he has stated publicly he is pleased with the way they have played in those games as well. Hopefully he sticks with what he's been doing, I'm not really a fan of White to be honest.

I really liked the Kindl-Smith pairing on the Power Play the other night. Their mobility opened up shooting lanes and the cycle very nicely I thought.

I don't think Quincey is great, but he is playing better. Smith has been better, Kronwall has been better. Kindl when he is composed looks better.

Hopefully they can sustain some of the momentum they have right now.
Agreed 100%. Also, Big Rig and Kronner gives us a somewhat legitimate top pairing to at least give us a solid chance against the other team's top lines.

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03-02-2013, 06:16 AM
  #162
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Goalies are weird. You see them dominate the their previous league, only to struggle when called up. Some call it development. But a good goalie stopping pucks, is a good goalie stopping pucks. Likewise, you can always tell when a goalie will never turn out...

I played goalie a lot, and what was a huge pain was getting used to a new teams defensive strategy. Before, I was able to challenge without worry is so and so situations, turns out I cannot anymore. My game, as a goalie, changed completely in the crease.

I'm sure this is magnified greatly in the NHL (Red Wings in particular) level due to injuries, for one. No solid D-core, for two. No solidified D-system, for three.

People say "bad goal". "Bad angle". But the goalie has to play off the defense. And if the defense is a wreck, then the goalie is pretty much on his own. These goalies either look like heroes, or look like fools. This has been Howard's season in a nut shell so far.

As for Howard's weaknesses. All goalies have a weakness, every single one of them. It's up to the defense to make sure the goalie isn't exploited.

Why is Howard weak on the PK? Look at all the goals he's scored against on the PK. Either behind the net plays, or from the point. You shouldn't allow your goalie to be poke checked to death, while he is trying to cover the post/puck (likely a goal on the PK). Cross crease one timers. Plays that are set up from behind the net. Howard is a victim to these a lot too. He saves a good chunk, as he has an excellent glove hand. But why are these plays happening? But the kicker is the point shots. We can call them weak, or he could be screened by about 6-8 people. Whatever the case is...these are the ones he usually let's in the most (ES as well). So what do you do? Get out of the way so he can see the puck!

Any way. I think Howard is do what he can considering the tragedy that we call a defensive unit. A couple bad games aside? What the hell is he supposed to do?

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03-02-2013, 07:25 AM
  #163
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Howard has looked like a 1st star of the game/ team MVP much more often than he has looked like the goat. There have only been a few goals (I can only think of 3 at the moment) this season where I was thinking "Howie should've had that, no excuses". Good post Dynheart. It will typically be an out of position defender or a big screen (when kronner puts up the "wall") that causes a weird one to go in, or a "saveable" shot to go in. All shots are saveable, but if your dmen are making big mental errors, you're going to be hung out to dry.

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03-02-2013, 08:14 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynheart View Post
Goalies are weird. You see them dominate the their previous league, only to struggle when called up. Some call it development. But a good goalie stopping pucks, is a good goalie stopping pucks. Likewise, you can always tell when a goalie will never turn out...

I played goalie a lot, and what was a huge pain was getting used to a new teams defensive strategy. Before, I was able to challenge without worry is so and so situations, turns out I cannot anymore. My game, as a goalie, changed completely in the crease.

I'm sure this is magnified greatly in the NHL (Red Wings in particular) level due to injuries, for one. No solid D-core, for two. No solidified D-system, for three.

People say "bad goal". "Bad angle". But the goalie has to play off the defense. And if the defense is a wreck, then the goalie is pretty much on his own. These goalies either look like heroes, or look like fools. This has been Howard's season in a nut shell so far.
Great post. Just like Mike Smith turned to be a "super" goalie, when he was brought from horrible Tampa system to Tippet's system at Phoenix, where he fits perfectly. One very nice example.


Quote:
But the kicker is the point shots. We can call them weak, or he could be screened by about 6-8 people. Whatever the case is...these are the ones he usually let's in the most (ES as well). So what do you do? Get out of the way so he can see the puck!
Yeah, it's all screening. In the whole league. Every goalie saves almost every puck what they can see. We have been the masters of screening in the last years, it's just horrible to see how our own defence does that now for our own goalie.

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03-03-2013, 02:46 PM
  #165
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I hope people are proud of these guys have played the last 3 games. Haven't gave up a goal in the first 2 periods I believe in each of these last 3 games. Each guy is playing a lot better than they were in the beginning of the season, I give them a lot of credit.

I've gone back and forth about this a lot, but I think we would really regret it if we decided to trade or get rid of Kindl. It looks like he is finally starting to put it all together, and he has the skills to really contribute. Having the skating ability of both Smith and Kindl is an asset to our D right now. They have to learn to be a little more selective for when they pinch or join in, but they both have a great skill set.

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03-03-2013, 03:21 PM
  #166
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I hope people are proud of these guys have played the last 3 games. Haven't gave up a goal in the first 2 periods I believe in each of these last 3 games. Each guy is playing a lot better than they were in the beginning of the season, I give them a lot of credit.

I've gone back and forth about this a lot, but I think we would really regret it if we decided to trade or get rid of Kindl. It looks like he is finally starting to put it all together, and he has the skills to really contribute. Having the skating ability of both Smith and Kindl is an asset to our D right now. They have to learn to be a little more selective for when they pinch or join in, but they both have a great skill set.
The defense has been fantastic the last several games. This group of d-men really seems to work, and I see no reason to not keep these pairings for a while. The fact that we managed to somehow throw away 3 points (against LA and now CHI) in the closing periods by easily avoidable plays/penalties kind of takes away from how solid we've been. We could easily have a 5 game winning streak now. But as long as we can keep this kind of defensive effort up and get our offensive lines working we will be a playoff team, I have no doubt.

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03-03-2013, 03:22 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
The defense has been fantastic the last several games. This group of d-men really seems to work, and I see no reason to not keep these pairings for a while. The fact that we managed to somehow throw away 3 points (against LA and now CHI) in the closing periods by easily avoidable plays/penalties kind of takes away from how solid we've been. We could easily have a 5 game winning streak now. But as long as we can keep this kind of defensive effort up and get our offensive lines working we will be a playoff team, I have no doubt.
Well said.

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03-03-2013, 03:23 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
The defense has been fantastic the last several games. This group of d-men really seems to work, and I see no reason to not keep these pairings for a while. The fact that we managed to somehow throw away 3 points (against LA and now CHI) in the closing periods by easily avoidable plays/penalties kind of takes away from how solid we've been. We could easily have a 5 game winning streak now. But as long as we can keep this kind of defensive effort up and get our offensive lines working we will be a playoff team, I have no doubt.
Yeah, they are keeping us in games and giving us chances to win games against good teams. They just to need to work on closing the deal, and finishing the game strong. Losing their focus and composure late in games. If they fix that, we will be fine.

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03-03-2013, 04:59 PM
  #169
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Really like the edge this group is playing with. They aren't going to get pushed around. A bit of a problem though is the lack of high end skill, and it's going to affect the team offense. If Smith is given a little time to find his offense, it's possible that part will figure itself out aswell though. The group still needs skill upgrade in the summer but this could do for now. Not seeing a spot for White and Cola to get back into the lineup right now.

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03-03-2013, 05:04 PM
  #170
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The defense is good, as others have said.

The problem is obviously offense. What a stark turnaround from the beginning of the year.

We have a handful of guys capable of being a go-to guy for scoring. Only a couple of them get any kind of meaningful ice-time. And fewer get any help in terms of linemates.

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03-03-2013, 05:08 PM
  #171
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The defense is good, as others have said.

The problem is obviously offense. What a stark turnaround from the beginning of the year.

We have a handful of guys capable of being a go-to guy for scoring. Only a couple of them get any kind of meaningful ice-time. And fewer get any help in terms of linemates.
Yeah, 0-3-2-1-1 conceded goals against NSH,VAN,LAK,SJS,CHI. Pretty strong group of teams.

Kronwall 6'0, 32y, left - Ericsson, 6'5, 29y, left
Quincey 6'2, 27y, left - Smith, 6'2, 24y, left
Lashoff 6'3, 22y, left - Kindl, 6'3, 26y, left

Average age 26.7 years. Young, big, mobile guys.

***

Two seasons ago it was at this time of the year:

Lidström 6'2, 40y, left - Rafalski 5'10, 37, rigth
Kronwall 6'0, 30y, left - Stuart, 6'2, 31y, left
Salei, 6'2, 36y, left - Ericsson 6'5, 27y, left

Average age 33.5 years.


Last edited by Henkka: 03-03-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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03-03-2013, 05:14 PM
  #172
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Yeah, 0-3-2-1-1 conceded goals against NSH,VAN,LAK,SJS,CHI. Pretty strong group of teams.
Yeah, defense has been pretty strong the past 6 games. 1.00 GAA at even strength.

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