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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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02-03-2013, 12:23 PM
  #76
FLYguy3911
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Good thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
If we were to be sellers at the deadline and some how fetch a late 1st round pick, I would really want Ryan Hartman out of Plymouth in the OHL.
Love his game. Reminds me of Callahan. I think he could fill a lot of roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I think the opposite IMO. A lot of teams drafted dmen last year and will probably want to get in on the forwards before their gone.
I don't think teams draft that way- at least the good ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The only thing this draft is missing is quality goaltenders outside of Fucale (who I'm not that crazy of) but the flyers have bigger needs to be taking a goalie early. So I think we'll be fine on that front.
Eric Comrie of Tri-City is pretty good. Spencer Martin of Mississauga as well. Not quite as good as last year's, but goalies can always been found IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
You wouldn't trade Simmonds for Jones?

I love Simmonds, but I'd drive him to the airport for the chance to draft any of the players in the top 5 of this draft, especially Jones and MacKinnon.
Agreed, I would trade any guy on the team not named Giroux, 1 for 1, for Jones (and probably MacKinnon/Drouin/Barkov).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primary Assist View Post
It's simply bewildering as to why Couturier is SO overvalued on this board. What has he shown to warrant this acclaim? When you watch him skate, he's slow as molasses.
I like Couturier, but yes he does get overvalued a bit. People who wouldn't trade him for Jones are absolutely nuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I'm truly surprised that no one is talking about mantha as much as other guys. The kid has 40 goals in 48 games (71 points), he's big, he can skate, he has good hands and one hell of a shot. I really want him in a flyers jersey if we end up with multiple 1sts (obviously a defenseman is top priority).
He's good, but you also have to consider he's the oldest player in the draft.

Just some random thoughts about guys I would like to see:

Defenseman
Ristolainen- solid two-way guy likes to play physical. Don't see as high an upside as other guys in the class.
Zadarov- if you want a big shutdown guy
Nurse- similar frame and athleticism as Jones. Less polished, but if you buy the offense, you could be getting a really good player. Worst case, he's just a shutdown guy.
Morrissey- Offensive guy who can skate
Pulock- not as high on him as others, but he has a bomb of a shot
Mirco Mueller- the last Swiss defender we drafted turned out to be pretty good. Big guy who can skate and is developing his offensive game.
Madison Bowey- I like this kid. Good skater, good offensive game. Can you go wrong drafting a defenseman from Kelowna?
Shea Theodore- one of the best pure offensive guys in the draft
Chris Bigras- seems to be a guy on the rise
Jordan Subban- passed on a Subban some years ago and regretted it. Not as good, but has some nice offensive tools.
Robert Hagg- solid Swede with a lot of poise.
Jan Kostalek- Czech import who was making his mark until an injury disrupted that.

Forwards
Frederik Gauthier- Big two-way center with lots of upside
Max Domi- tiny but but plays with a lot of heart and some nice mitts
Valentin Zykov- this kid has been on fire. Big and strong. Could see a big rise if not for the Russian factor.
Sergey Tolchinsky- small, but nice skills.
Artturi Lehkonen- small, but good hands and a good shot. Once he develops physically, he could be a force.

I have a lot better feel for the defenseman. There's definitely a big drop off after Jones, but he's one of the best defenders to come along in a few years. Even so, there appears to be some nice depth- especially in the Dub. I think there are some high upside forwards- guys who are playing their first year of major junior hockey and/or catching fire in the second half. Really excited about this class. If this season bottoms out, it won't be as bad as getting JVR, I can tell you that.

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02-03-2013, 12:30 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Good thread...

Love his game. Reminds me of Callahan. I think he could fill a lot of roles.



I don't think teams draft that way- at least the good ones.


Eric Comrie of Tri-City is pretty good. Spencer Martin of Mississauga as well. Not quite as good as last year's, but goalies can always been found IMO.


Agreed, I would trade any guy on the team not named Giroux, 1 for 1, for Jones (and probably MacKinnon/Drouin/Barkov).


I like Couturier, but yes he does get overvalued a bit. People who wouldn't trade him for Jones are absolutely nuts.


He's good, but you also have to consider he's the oldest player in the draft.

Just some random thoughts about guys I would like to see:

Defenseman
Ristolainen- solid two-way guy likes to play physical. Don't see as high an upside as other guys in the class.
Zadarov- if you want a big shutdown guy
Nurse- similar frame and athleticism as Jones. Less polished, but if you buy the offense, you could be getting a really good player. Worst case, he's just a shutdown guy.
Morrissey- Offensive guy who can skate
Pulock- not as high on him as others, but he has a bomb of a shot
Mirco Mueller- the last Swiss defender we drafted turned out to be pretty good. Big guy who can skate and is developing his offensive game.
Madison Bowey- I like this kid. Good skater, good offensive game. Can you go wrong drafting a defenseman from Kelowna?
Shea Theodore- one of the best pure offensive guys in the draft
Chris Bigras- seems to be a guy on the rise
Jordan Subban- passed on a Subban some years ago and regretted it. Not as good, but has some nice offensive tools.
Robert Hagg- solid Swede with a lot of poise.
Jan Kostalek- Czech import who was making his mark until an injury disrupted that.

Forwards
Frederik Gauthier- Big two-way center with lots of upside
Max Domi- tiny but but plays with a lot of heart and some nice mitts
Valentin Zykov- this kid has been on fire. Big and strong. Could see a big rise if not for the Russian factor.
Sergey Tolchinsky- small, but nice skills.
Artturi Lehkonen- small, but good hands and a good shot. Once he develops physically, he could be a force.

I have a lot better feel for the defenseman. There's definitely a big drop off after Jones, but he's one of the best defenders to come along in a few years. Even so, there appears to be some nice depth- especially in the Dub. I think there are some high upside forwards- guys who are playing their first year on major junior hockey and/or catching fire in the second half. Really excited about this class. If this season bottoms out, it won't be as bad as getting JVR, I can tell you that.
Regardless of where we draft if we hold onto our draft picks I feel like we'll have a really good draft. If there's on thing I trust the FO with its drafting. At least when the picks are available we usually draft well under Homer.

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02-03-2013, 12:55 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Regardless of where we draft if we hold onto our draft picks I feel like we'll have a really good draft. If there's on thing I trust the FO with its drafting. At least when the picks are available we usually draft well under Homer.
Well, in the first. The rest leaves a lot to be desired. I know their's a reason guys are late round picks and I know not every guy will make it to the NHL, but it seems like other teams seem to find those gems in the later rounds. The last two drafts seem to be OK, but its still too early to tell. 2010, 2009, 2007, 2006, and I'm gonna stop there. You can look for yourself: http://www.eliteprospects.com/draft_....php?TeamID=70.

I would like them to see them take more Europeans later in the draft. They took a couple this year which was nice to see, but I think those are the guys that are going to give you the biggest bang for your buck.

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02-03-2013, 01:07 PM
  #79
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Can't remember WHERE I read it (but not making it up) but supposedly the Flyers are REALLY high on Hagg. But seriously, since I don't have a link you dont have to trust me. I remember someone posting it here, but the scouts have been watching him the most out of all the European guy. He is also a 15-20 guy (tsn has him at 29 though. IS has him as 17). He is a PP-QB player, and is played in all the most critical times in the game. One of those guys you can believe in, in the last few minutes of the game.


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02-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #80
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after jones their is a drop off in dmen

Ristolainen- solid two-way guy likes to play physical. Don't see as high an upside as other guys in the class. but i would not consider him much of a drop off.i think the game with him is what you see is what you get. compared with some other guys that have more upside, more natural talent. but what good is all the talent in the world if you bring it one night and not the next. would be the safest pick of a dman after jones. after him though it is a crap shoot.

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02-03-2013, 01:24 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Can't remember WHERE I read it (but not making it up) but supposedly the Flyers are REALLY high on Hagg. But seriously, since I don't have a link you dont have to trust me. I remember someone posting it here, but the scouts have been watching him the most out of all the European guy. He is also a 15-20 guy (tsn has him at 29 though. IS has him as 17). He is a PP-QB player, and is played in all the most critical times in the game. One of those guys you can believe in, in the last few minutes of the game.
I think Homer asked Renberg what he though of Hägg during the WJC since Renberg was doing the Swedish cast iirc.

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02-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by chinatown81592 View Post
I think Homer asked Renberg what he though of Hägg during the WJC since Renberg was doing the Swedish cast iirc.
Ahh that's right. Thanks for clearing it up. If I'm not mistaken, Renberg was high on him right?

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02-03-2013, 01:37 PM
  #83
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I believe so, trying to look up any more info for what Renberg thought of Hägg. Only have this tweet from Meltzer to confirm that Homer asked about him.
Bill Meltzer ‏@billmeltzer

Mikael Renberg said on SVT the other day that Flyers ppl at WJC had asked him for his take on 2013 draft prospect Robert Hägg.

Edit: Got nothing published about Renberg's opinion about Hägg. Seems that he only told Flyers' brass at the WJC about his opinions.

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02-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daynus View Post
Ristolainen- solid two-way guy likes to play physical. Don't see as high an upside as other guys in the class. but i would not consider him much of a drop off.i think the game with him is what you see is what you get. compared with some other guys that have more upside, more natural talent. but what good is all the talent in the world if you bring it one night and not the next. would be the safest pick of a dman after jones. after him though it is a crap shoot.
Yeah. I didn't mean that as a knock on his game. I just think in comparison to his classmates, he's a lower ceiling-higher floor kind of guy. Wish I could have seen more of him at the WJCs.

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02-03-2013, 07:29 PM
  #85
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Would rather have Pulock, Morrissey and even Zadorov than rist.

Shea Theodore is another guy I see having higher upside than he's given credit for.

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02-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #86
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Rist just sounds like a guy that would be the #1 2-way D we have been looking for for a long time, and one that's physical. I know he's not Jones, but still. We have enough shutdown D-men, we need someone like Rist or Pulock or Theodore.

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02-03-2013, 07:42 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Rist just sounds like a guy that would be the #1 2-way D we have been looking for for a long time, and one that's physical. I know he's not Jones, but still. We have enough shutdown D-men, we need someone like Rist or Pulock or Theodore.
I think calling Ristolainen a #1 is setting him up to fail. He's more like a 2-3

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02-03-2013, 07:43 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Would rather have Pulock, Morrissey and even Zadorov than rist.

Shea Theodore is another guy I see having higher upside than he's given credit for.
Completely disagree. Wheres this Rist has a low ceiling thing coming from?

From Craig Button:

Quote:
Rasmus has very good offensive skills with an excellent shot. He jumps into the attack and even initiates the attack if he feels it's necessary. He will play physical, and if he makes contact, you are fully aware of that as an opponent. When the game becomes challenging and the moments important, he is ready, willing and capable of taking a leading role to make a positive difference. A player who is more than capable of being a top defenceman. The description 'workhorse defenceman' comes to mind when you assess his potential.

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02-03-2013, 07:54 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Completely disagree. Wheres this Rist has a low ceiling thing coming from?

From Craig Button:
With our current D situation, with a player like that, he would become our #1 more than likely. He may not match up to some other #1's in the NHL, but still very good.

Pulock would be pretty awesome as well, apparently a good open ice hitter as well as a really good offensive D-man and great on the PP.

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02-03-2013, 08:39 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Completely disagree. Wheres this Rist has a low ceiling thing coming from?

From Craig Button:
I just don't see him being a #1. He's decent at everything but I really don't see him becoming anything more than a 2-3 in the nhl. Which isn't bad, but I think with a guy like Pulock or Morrissey, there's potential to be #1s. Rist is a safer prospect. He's likely to be an #4 guy at least in the nhl. Actually I think he could be that even now. I just don't know if I like his potential to be a #1. I like Shea Theodore's upside more, as well as Ryan Pulock.

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02-03-2013, 10:06 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Completely disagree. Wheres this Rist has a low ceiling thing coming from?

From Craig Button:
Read all of Button's scouting reports and tell me everyone of those guys doesn't sound like a future all-star. He purposely doesn't expose players' weaknesses.

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02-03-2013, 10:46 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Read all of Button's scouting reports and tell me everyone of those guys doesn't sound like a future all-star. He purposely doesn't expose players' weaknesses.
Eh, look at ISS, and others. They all say something similar.

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02-03-2013, 10:56 PM
  #93
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I like Button's list better than ISS and all them because people don't realize he bases on what he thinks the player will be in the nhl. The freak outs by people that don't know he's rates them different than scouting services do are priceless.

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02-04-2013, 06:58 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I just don't see him being a #1. He's decent at everything but I really don't see him becoming anything more than a 2-3 in the nhl. Which isn't bad, but I think with a guy like Pulock or Morrissey, there's potential to be #1s. Rist is a safer prospect. He's likely to be an #4 guy at least in the nhl. Actually I think he could be that even now. I just don't know if I like his potential to be a #1. I like Shea Theodore's upside more, as well as Ryan Pulock.
I like Risto. His skill set is very similar to former Flyers defenseman Eric Desjardins. If that's what he ends up being like, then yeah, that's a number one defenseman.

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02-04-2013, 12:10 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I like Risto. His skill set is very similar to former Flyers defenseman Eric Desjardins. If that's what he ends up being like, then yeah, that's a number one defenseman.
Your comparisons are always over the top though.

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02-04-2013, 12:13 PM
  #96
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Your comparisons are always over the top though.
Dude, can it. Wayne Simmonds will have at least one 40 goal season.

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02-04-2013, 12:47 PM
  #97
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i did not disagree

with rist on your list flyguy. your list was pretty darn good. it is just my personal thoughts on rist. but if we lose to tampa again, we will be sitting back in drouin territory. i think 1-3 is set pretty solid, jones,mac,drouin. personally i like drouin over mac. at 4 i would have to go rist i would consider him bpa at that point. central scouting is not a lock by anymeans. we went off the radar forsberg at 6 and giroux at 22. so i for sure trust our scouts.

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02-04-2013, 01:04 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daynus View Post
with rist on your list flyguy. your list was pretty darn good. it is just my personal thoughts on rist. but if we lose to tampa again, we will be sitting back in drouin territory. i think 1-3 is set pretty solid, jones,mac,drouin. personally i like drouin over mac. at 4 i would have to go rist i would consider him bpa at that point. central scouting is not a lock by anymeans. we went off the radar forsberg at 6 and giroux at 22. so i for sure trust our scouts.
I like drouin a lot too, but I'm always wary of smaller guys, especially wingers, and their ability to translate their offense to the nhl level. He is an awesome talent though.

Even with all our struggles though, this team is just too talented to finish with a top 3 pick. I just don't see it happening. Missing the playoffs is a possibility with the wonkiness of the season but I don't realistically see us finishing with any higher than a 10-15 pick.

If that were the case I'd really like them to pick Anthony Mantha. I think he's going to be a star.

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02-04-2013, 01:08 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daynus View Post
with rist on your list flyguy. your list was pretty darn good. it is just my personal thoughts on rist. but if we lose to tampa again, we will be sitting back in drouin territory. i think 1-3 is set pretty solid, jones,mac,drouin. personally i like drouin over mac. at 4 i would have to go rist i would consider him bpa at that point. central scouting is not a lock by anymeans. we went off the radar forsberg at 6 and giroux at 22. so i for sure trust our scouts.
Personally I like MacKinnon a lot more than Drouin.

I don't think the Flyers will wind up with a top 5 pick though. There are too many bad teams that I think will finish below them in the standings. I don't think that their cup contenders either though, just not bad enough to be in the top 5. Of course, the draft lottery has changed, so if they don't make the playoffs, who knows.

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02-04-2013, 01:45 PM
  #100
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Question: under the new lottery rules, I know the max 4-spot increase is gone, but is there a maximum number of spots teams can fall? I couldn't find the answer online. I'm probably blind.

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