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Old
02-03-2013, 09:43 AM
  #401
Jacques G
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
That was on Malkin. He got lazy, stopped skating and let Greene go right past him.
Right, I mean it will always be someone's fault, but short-handed goals should be inexcusable when you have the talent on the ice that the Pens 1st PP line has. It may have been Malkin this time, but it could have just as easily been anyone else on that line.

I think they need to split up the top players into two strong PP lines. Throw a grinder or two out there to inject some passion into the power play; guys that make a living working hard to hold the zone and make dirty goals. Just because it's 5-on-4 doesn't mean you'll get that perfect snipe every time.

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02-03-2013, 09:45 AM
  #402
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
It was indeed, but the risks of him being on fumes in that situation is higher after what.... a 1.45 shift?
At least he can share blame with Letang who had I think three turnovers on that PP.
That still isn't an excuse TR. Malkin literally had to move another 15 feet to tie up Greene and he just hovered at the top of the circles and watched him go by.

It was just a bad, lazy play. It happens.

As far as Letang... Why bother.

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02-03-2013, 09:50 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
Right, I mean it will always be someone's fault, but short-handed goals should be inexcusable when you have the talent on the ice that the Pens 1st PP line has. It may have been Malkin this time, but it could have just as easily been anyone else on that line.

I think they need to split up the top players into two strong PP lines. Throw a grinder or two out there to inject some passion into the power play; guys that make a living working hard to hold the zone and make dirty goals. Just because it's 5-on-4 doesn't mean you'll get that perfect snipe every time.
I'll never buy splitting up the units for two very good reasons:

- there isn't enough talent for two units, so who gets the ****** unit? Crosby or Malkin?

- the Pens had very good PP units with Francis/Jagr and then Kovy/Jagr. Three guys who loved the half wall and were all lefties.

They need a PP QB and Letang isn't it. The lack of a true QB up high is killing the PP.

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02-03-2013, 10:01 AM
  #404
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I'll never buy splitting up the units for two very good reasons:

- there isn't enough talent for two units, so who gets the ****** unit? Crosby or Malkin?

- the Pens had very good PP units with Francis/Jagr and then Kovy/Jagr. Three guys who loved the half wall and were all lefties.

They need a PP QB and Letang isn't it. The lack of a true QB up high is killing the PP.
Do you think we have a decent solution on the current roster? I'm not sure that we do. Despres is really the best option left to try unless we just go with Martin for the sake of safety and just concede that our point man can't shoot the puck. Martin does have one PP goal from a point shot this year. At least he can put his wristers near the net.

--------Neal
-------------Crosby
---------------Malkin

Letang ------ Martin/Despres

I still think Letang is a valuable PP player when he doesn't have to think so much. And I certainly think the PP could live without Kunitz on it


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 02-03-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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02-03-2013, 10:10 AM
  #405
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+ bringing back gary glitter for goal songs. sure, he's a creep...but we have 3 cups with gary glitter. zero cups with blur. these are facts. not sure why morehouse thinks there are only 2 songs to choose from, but at least we're back to the better one.

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02-03-2013, 10:12 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
That still isn't an excuse TR. Malkin literally had to move another 15 feet to tie up Greene and he just hovered at the top of the circles and watched him go by.

It was just a bad, lazy play. It happens.
.
I agree. Malkin needs to bear down on that. I just have to keep pointing out that far too long shifts is another one of the many issues of our PP, and contributes to us always being one of the teams with the most SH goals against.

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02-03-2013, 10:13 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Do you think we have a decent solution on the current roster? I'm not sure that we do. Despres is really the best option left to try unless we just go with Martin for the sake of safety and just concede that our point man can't shoot the puck. Martin does have one PP goal from a point shot this year. At least he can put his wristers near the net.

--------Neal
-------------Crosby
---------------Malkin

Letang ------ Martin/Despres

I still think Letang is a valuable PP player when he doesn't have to think so much. And I certainly think the PP could live without Kunitz on it
Omigawd brah... The unit would crash and burn without Kunitz.

Despres is certainly capable, but he isn't a PP QB by any stretch of the imagination.

If the roster stays the same, I still feel Crosby has to be the one playing RP and Malkin can rotate up high with him. Malkin doesn't skate laterally as well as Crosby or move the puck as fast as him. Malkin also has the high powered one timer, so you want him in the circle.

The Neal tip in goal was a perfect example of what Crosby can do back there with his skating and vision. It seems like they are catering to Crosby by keeping him on the wall, when it is obvious as hell that Malkin and he should switch.

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02-03-2013, 10:14 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
They need a PP QB and Letang isn't it. The lack of a true QB up high is killing the PP.
Going into the season I thought Letang was ready to be a solid PP contributor on the point. I was wrong.

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02-03-2013, 10:14 AM
  #409
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What do you guys think about staggering full 2 mins of the PP between Malkin and Sid? Both would get first unit but one or the other stays out when the 2nd unit comes on.

Like Malkin gets the full 2 min of the PP first and then Sid gets the full 2 mins next.

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02-03-2013, 10:15 AM
  #410
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I agree. Malkin needs to bear down on that. I just have to keep pointing out that far too long shifts is another one of the many issues of our PP, and contributes to us always being one of the teams with the most SH goals against.
Well having Neal and Malkin going back on their heels is a big time liability as well. I'm not comfortable with it, at all.

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02-03-2013, 10:16 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Going into the season I thought Letang was ready to be a solid PP contributor on the point. I was wrong.
No reason to feel stupid, most of us think that, then Captain Clutch always emerges.

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02-03-2013, 10:21 AM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Omigawd brah... The unit would crash and burn without Kunitz.

Despres is certainly capable, but he isn't a PP QB by any stretch of the imagination.

If the roster stays the same, I still feel Crosby has to be the one playing RP and Malkin can rotate up high with him. Malkin doesn't skate laterally as well as Crosby or move the puck as fast as him. Malkin also has the high powered one timer, so you want him in the circle.

The Neal tip in goal was a perfect example of what Crosby can do back there with his skating and vision. It seems like they are catering to Crosby by keeping him on the wall, when it is obvious as hell that Malkin and he should switch.
Crosby is probably the best option we have for every PP position except for the one he's actually playing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Going into the season I thought Letang was ready to be a solid PP contributor on the point. I was wrong.
I still think he can be a solid PP contributor if we can take away as much decision making from his as possible. If he isn't thinking about being the QB I think he can let his instincts kick in a bit more. The ability is all there he just seems to be overthinking everything.

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02-03-2013, 10:24 AM
  #413
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Why can't Letang one-time a puck on net? I want to know why?!?

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02-03-2013, 10:26 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Crosby is probably the best option we have for every PP position except for the one he's actually playing.

I still think he can be a solid PP contributor if we can take away as much decision making from his as possible. If he isn't thinking about being the QB I think he can let his instincts kick in a bit more. The ability is all there he just seems to be overthinking everything.
DB just needs to stop catering to Crosby and put him where he can help this PP the most.

He has the speed and skating to get back on his heels, he dishes the puck faster than Malkin, he has great vision, a good shot, won't hesitate to get it on net, etc etc.

He just is a more explosive skater and a faster decision maker than Malkin and Malkin has a much better one timer. It makes perfect sense to switch them, but DB refuses to do it for whatever reasons.

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02-03-2013, 10:30 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB just needs to stop catering to Crosby and put him where he can help this PP the most.

He has the speed and skating to get back on his heels, he dishes the puck faster than Malkin, he has great vision, a good shot, won't hesitate to get it on net, etc etc.

He just is a more explosive skater and a faster decision maker than Malkin and Malkin has a much better one timer. It makes perfect sense to switch them, but DB refuses to do it for whatever reasons.
With how much more he seems to trust Sid defensively than Malkin, it really doesn't make much sense that he wouldn't at least try it. Unless he really just doesn't want his faceoff man having to move to the point after. I know Sid got kicked out of the dot and Kunitz took the faceoff instead of Malkin in the last game so who knows.

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02-03-2013, 11:01 AM
  #416
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Not that I dont agree with Sid playing the point, he looks fine there when he plays. But whats this catering crap everyones talking about? Neal has been on the half wall and Sid's been on the left since Geno moved to the point...?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB just needs to stop catering to Crosby and put him where he can help this PP the most.

He has the speed and skating to get back on his heels, he dishes the puck faster than Malkin, he has great vision, a good shot, won't hesitate to get it on net, etc etc.

He just is a more explosive skater and a faster decision maker than Malkin and Malkin has a much better one timer. It makes perfect sense to switch them, but DB refuses to do it for whatever reasons.

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02-03-2013, 11:08 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by GrouperTrooper View Post
Not that I dont agree with Sid playing the point, he looks fine there when he plays. But whats this catering crap everyones talking about? Neal has been on the half wall and Sid's been on the left since Geno moved to the point...?
Crosby has been rotating off the wall with Neal since Malkin was moved. In the past it is always Malkin to the point instead of Crosby, except for a six or seven game stint when Crosby first came back last season and he played point (and looked good doing it).

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02-03-2013, 11:53 AM
  #418
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Sullivan turned out to be fantastic in the QB role on the PP. Miss that guy.

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02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Crosby has been rotating off the wall with Neal since Malkin was moved. In the past it is always Malkin to the point instead of Crosby, except for a six or seven game stint when Crosby first came back last season and he played point (and looked good doing it).
Maybe it's me just burying my head in the sand, but I'd like to think that it's not specifically 'catering to Crosby.'

I'd honestly rather it be incompetence.

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02-03-2013, 01:39 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB essentially said he is done with the A. So I highly doubt he goes back.

Sending Despres back would stagnate his growth. Letang still makes bonehead plays and probably always will.

Despres is using the boards and outleting the puck faster than I ever saw him in the A or Jrs. He is learning you can't always skate the puck out of danger, a lesson he didn't seem to learn in the A.

Playing agt. inferior talent makes him think he can do things he shouldn't be doing. Now he is learning how fast NHL players close and how quickly he needs to move the puck.

Today his big mistakes came when he got caught pinching. Each game he is learning, but he is being as physical as I have ever seen him and making quick decisions.

He is going to have bad games, people just need to deal with it.

Are you kidding me? Having a prospect in the AHL is going to retard his growth, when he hasn't even dominated that level and arguably isn't ready for this one? If that's your argument, why don't we also bring up Morrow, Dumoulin & Samuelsson, because keeping them in WBS is going to stagnate their growth.


As I said before, Despres has a very quick window to go from making a lot of mistakes to playing a near perfect game. If you compare Bortuzzo in his first game to yesterday and today, you can see he's not making the mistakes he was making in his first game. Despres's trajectory isn't quite going that quickly, but he has a bit more time. But if he doesn't SIGNIFICANTLY improve his consistency, decision-making and giveaways, he is not ready to supplant one of our other Dmen in the top-6.


As I am writing this, I have noticed that Bylsma ended last period with Engelland taking Despres' spot next to Letang to end last period, and also to start this period. There is no question that this is because of his mistakes in the 1st period, and a re-enforces everything I am saying above.


Despres does not look ready, I'm sorry. He's gt 2-3 weeks to prove otherwise, and it's one thing to have a bad games now, but we can't afford to have that in the playoffs this season if we're making a serious run for the Cup. If we're not a playoff team and in rebuilding mode, then sure: give guys the opportunity to play and make some mistakes, but we can't afford that if we're seriously looking to win now, and I don't think Despres is ready for the elevated level of play/speed/intensity that is going to be coming when the playoffs come around.


But then again, he's also a top candidate for a trade if Shero is going to make one mid-season.


edit: since posting this, Despres has continued to be bumped down to the 3rd pair in favour of Engelland, and took another penalty throwing it over the glass. I'm glad he has been given this experience and opportunity. Now, or at least when Nisky get's back, I'll look forward to seeing him sent back to WBS, knowing what he has to work on to become better and more consistent at this level.


Last edited by jmelm: 02-03-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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02-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #421
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Are you kidding me? Having a prospect in the AHL is going to retard his growth, when he hasn't even dominated that level and arguably isn't ready for this one?
.
ya lost me.

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02-03-2013, 02:46 PM
  #422
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Despres belongs in the NHL...but if there was a situation where he wasn't going to be getting enough ice time for the big team then he'd have to be sent down to the AHL.

Despres wouldn't have his development retarded by that move...he's a 20 year-old who certainly has never dominated any level he's played in. He'd have more to learn by playing 22 minutes every night in WBS that 10 a night in Pittsburgh (or 0 in the press box).

I think he's in the NHL for good at this point, but him going down to the AHL wouldn't ruin him. Guys like Bortuzzo and Tangradi, who have been in the AHL for so long that they have nothing more to gain, would be the ones that would stagnate if they were sent down (obviously not going to happen since someone would claim them and plug them on their NHL rosters, but hypothetically speaking).

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02-03-2013, 03:43 PM
  #423
Mr Jiggyfly
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Are you kidding me? Having a prospect in the AHL is going to retard his growth, when he hasn't even dominated that level and arguably isn't ready for this one? If that's your argument, why don't we also bring up Morrow, Dumoulin & Samuelsson, because keeping them in WBS is going to stagnate their growth.


As I said before, Despres has a very quick window to go from making a lot of mistakes to playing a near perfect game. If you compare Bortuzzo in his first game to yesterday and today, you can see he's not making the mistakes he was making in his first game. Despres's trajectory isn't quite going that quickly, but he has a bit more time. But if he doesn't SIGNIFICANTLY improve his consistency, decision-making and giveaways, he is not ready to supplant one of our other Dmen in the top-6.


As I am writing this, I have noticed that Bylsma ended last period with Engelland taking Despres' spot next to Letang to end last period, and also to start this period. There is no question that this is because of his mistakes in the 1st period, and a re-enforces everything I am saying above.


Despres does not look ready, I'm sorry. He's gt 2-3 weeks to prove otherwise, and it's one thing to have a bad games now, but we can't afford to have that in the playoffs this season if we're making a serious run for the Cup. If we're not a playoff team and in rebuilding mode, then sure: give guys the opportunity to play and make some mistakes, but we can't afford that if we're seriously looking to win now, and I don't think Despres is ready for the elevated level of play/speed/intensity that is going to be coming when the playoffs come around.


But then again, he's also a top candidate for a trade if Shero is going to make one mid-season.


edit: since posting this, Despres has continued to be bumped down to the 3rd pair in favour of Engelland, and took another penalty throwing it over the glass. I'm glad he has been given this experience and opportunity. Now, or at least when Nisky get's back, I'll look forward to seeing him sent back to WBS, knowing what he has to work on to become better and more consistent at this level.
I'm not getting into this stupidity with you. Rookies make mistakes and have brutal games. Deal with it.

Sending Despres down will retard his growth. Period.

You believe otherwise, I frankly don't care nor could I vehemently disagree anymore.

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02-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Despres belongs in the NHL...but if there was a situation where he wasn't going to be getting enough ice time for the big team then he'd have to be sent down to the AHL.

Despres wouldn't have his development retarded by that move...he's a 20 year-old who certainly has never dominated any level he's played in. He'd have more to learn by playing 22 minutes every night in WBS that 10 a night in Pittsburgh (or 0 in the press box).

I think he's in the NHL for good at this point, but him going down to the AHL wouldn't ruin him. Guys like Bortuzzo and Tangradi, who have been in the AHL for so long that they have nothing more to gain, would be the ones that would stagnate if they were sent down (obviously not going to happen since someone would claim them and plug them on their NHL rosters, but hypothetically speaking).
I think that I'm with Jiggy on this one. There's nothing left for Despres to 'learn' in the AHL. What he needs to learn only comes with playing in the NHL. He needs to learn what he can and cannot do in the NHL game. You don't learn it in the AHL, because the level of speed and caliber of talent overall is insufficient.

Right now, you keep playing Despres. It's the type of decision where you reap the reward in April.

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02-03-2013, 03:53 PM
  #425
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I think Despres would gain more playing in the NHL, but that by no stretch means he can't go to the AHL and work on his game. A guy like Bortuzzo...yeah, he should probably stay here, not just because of his contract situation, but because he is already regarded as one of the best defensemen in the AHL. He'd benefit more staying here and getting comfortable with the pace of the game.

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