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Old
02-03-2013, 09:50 AM
  #776
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It's been going way downhill. It's consistently poor now.

(The conspiracy theory being it's Katz's way of pushing for a new arena even harder)
I assume that is over the last couple years then because as recently as the time of the 2011 All-Star game it was voted best ice by the NHLPA.

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02-03-2013, 10:54 AM
  #777
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ducks are 5-1-1. boudreau getting that winning percentage back to #1 all time again.

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02-03-2013, 03:34 PM
  #778
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ducks are 5-1-1. boudreau getting that winning percentage back to #1 all time again.
Who cares about Boudreau and his ringless sausage fingers?

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02-03-2013, 03:36 PM
  #779
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Who cares about Boudreau and his ringless sausage fingers?
Yeah who would want to good old run and gun regular season butt kicking Caps when you could have this team instead...?

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02-03-2013, 03:39 PM
  #780
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Yeah who would want to good old run and gun regular season butt kicking Caps when you could have this team instead...?
How'd that run and gun work after April 2010?

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02-03-2013, 03:46 PM
  #781
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How'd that run and gun work after April 2010?
I'd take great regular seasons and comparatively disappointing playoffs over this garbage any day. But you enjoy this one step forward ten steps backward journey to winning the right way...

EDIT

And after April 2010 was the start of changing things. Sure Boudreau was still here but he had already tweaked the system to dial back the pressure a bit in an effort to make it more defensively responsible. Trying to play 'the right way' was the beginning of the end...

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02-03-2013, 03:52 PM
  #782
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I for one, want to see Boudreau succeed. I always liked him and I think that he knows how to get teams to score goals and play "interesting" hockey. Hockey that one can watch 82 games of the season and know that we are never out of a game.

As it stands now, we are out of a game if a team scores more than 3 goals on us.

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02-03-2013, 04:05 PM
  #783
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I'd take great regular seasons and comparatively disappointing playoffs over this garbage any day. But you enjoy this one step forward ten steps backward journey to winning the right way...

EDIT

And after April 2010 was the start of changing things. Sure Boudreau was still here but he had already tweaked the system to dial back the pressure a bit in an effort to make it more defensively responsible. Trying to play 'the right way' was the beginning of the end...
He tweaked the system in about December of 2010 because no one excepting Semin could score anymore. Whether defenses adapted or everyone forgot how to play hockey is debatable. What isn't debatable is that the fun and gun didn't work anymore.

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02-03-2013, 04:12 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
He tweaked the system in about December of 2010 because no one excepting Semin could score anymore. Whether defenses adapted or everyone forgot how to play hockey is debatable. What isn't debatable is that the fun and gun didn't work anymore.
He made some changes before the 10-11 season. They weren't very big, but there was at least more lip-service to defense. December/the losing streak was when they went all-in on the trapfest to stop the bleeding.

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02-03-2013, 04:34 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
He tweaked the system in about December of 2010 because no one excepting Semin could score anymore. Whether defenses adapted or everyone forgot how to play hockey is debatable. What isn't debatable is that the fun and gun didn't work anymore.
Maybe you should look at the GM who is touting "responsible" (losing) hockey....

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02-03-2013, 06:19 PM
  #786
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I'd take great regular seasons and comparatively disappointing playoffs over this garbage any day. But you enjoy this one step forward ten steps backward journey to winning the right way...

EDIT

And after April 2010 was the start of changing things. Sure Boudreau was still here but he had already tweaked the system to dial back the pressure a bit in an effort to make it more defensively responsible. Trying to play 'the right way' was the beginning of the end...
Yeah I think McPhee's biggest problem was attempting to make a regular season team into a playoff team. They should have spent all those resources on brainwashing fans and players into believing that presidents trophy = stanley cup instead. Then everyone would be happy.

Or we could just pretend losing = winning and not be let at all. Who cares, it's just a bunch of dudes chasing a piece of rubber. Any significance assigned beyond that has no bearing on reality. What you make of it isn't all that important as long as it makes you happy.

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02-03-2013, 07:39 PM
  #787
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Wow, just took a look at the Ducks roster out of curiosity. They're built much better than we are. If we swapped our D & G for theirs we probably have 3-4 more wins. Top 9 much harder to contain as well.

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02-03-2013, 08:02 PM
  #788
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Wow, just took a look at the Ducks roster out of curiosity. They're built much better than we are. If we swapped our D & G for theirs we probably have 3-4 more wins. Top 9 much harder to contain as well.
Um. Pretty much every team is built better than us. That's why we're in last place.

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02-03-2013, 08:12 PM
  #789
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Um. Pretty much every team is built better than us. That's why we're in last place.

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02-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #790
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He made some changes before the 10-11 season. They weren't very big, but there was at least more lip-service to defense.
Exactly and it is impossible to know whether it was those changes that were the impetus for Ovechkin and Backstrom and the entire team except for Semin to have such a poor first few months of the season offensively, which led to the first big change.

McPhee got in Boudreau's ear after the Habs loss to listen to the pundits and be better defensively, Boudreau dialed the system down a notch or two to try to be better defensively, The team as a whole wasn't the same offensively but Semin's great start carried it well enough, Semin dried up also, losses started piling up, Boudreau changed to a trap, the end...

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02-04-2013, 11:31 AM
  #791
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How'd that run and gun work after April 2010?
my feeling on hindsight is that the caps overreacted to april 2010. john carlson has single handedly proven that getting in the shooting lanes occasionally deflects pucks into your own net.

the lucky fact that didnt happen even once to montreal when only one goal would have made the difference, just points that out.

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02-04-2013, 11:31 AM
  #792
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Yeah I think McPhee's biggest problem was attempting to make a regular season team into a playoff team. They should have spent all those resources on brainwashing fans and players into believing that presidents trophy = stanley cup instead. Then everyone would be happy.

Or we could just pretend losing = winning and not be let at all. Who cares, it's just a bunch of dudes chasing a piece of rubber. Any significance assigned beyond that has no bearing on reality. What you make of it isn't all that important as long as it makes you happy.
Sure if you think this one step forward ten steps backwards in an effort to play 'the right' way approach is going to get this team to a cup faster than just letting Boudreau's run and gun improve as the talent level and experience level improved would have then enjoy.

That team got the most out of it's top players and that was enough to win a awful lot of games and if your best players aren't your best players you aren't going to win squat.

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02-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #793
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Sure if you think this one step forward ten steps backwards in an effort to play 'the right' way approach is going to get this team to a cup faster than just letting Boudreau's run and gun improve as the talent level and experience level improved would have then enjoy.

That team got the most out of it's top players and that was enough to win a awful lot of games and if your best players aren't your best players you aren't going to win squat.
Most teams that win do so with their best players not being their best players for large stretches of time. You simply cannot expect Ovechkin and Backstrom to keep dragging the same mess to the playoffs over and over, especially since once they do they inevitably get curbstomped by better teams. Eventually it will get old. No amount of fancy hockey coaching will subsume human nature. That version of the run and gun was not sustainable. It fizzled out with Boudreau right in front of your eyes. We could potentially get it going again with someone like Laviolette behind the wheel but we'd need a serious roster overhaul to go far in the playoffs with it. And, just like Boudreau he'd have a short shelf life.

If they really committed to building the "right" team and playing the "right" way we'd be much further by now. But they half-assed it, so here we are.

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02-04-2013, 12:16 PM
  #794
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Exactly and it is impossible to know whether it was those changes that were the impetus for Ovechkin and Backstrom and the entire team except for Semin to have such a poor first few months of the season offensively, which led to the first big change.

McPhee got in Boudreau's ear after the Habs loss to listen to the pundits and be better defensively, Boudreau dialed the system down a notch or two to try to be better defensively, The team as a whole wasn't the same offensively but Semin's great start carried it well enough, Semin dried up also, losses started piling up, Boudreau changed to a trap, the end...
I don't agree with you but it's a fair enough point. What I do agree with is that it's important, vital actually, to maximize our offensive talent. If they wanted improved defense Mcphee should have looked at the roster and seen, as any idiot could, that the easiest way to do so is improving on crap like Jurcina, Schultz, Sloan, Corvo, Pothier and Morrisonnnnnn.

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02-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #795
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I don't agree with you but it's a fair enough point. What I do agree with is that it's important, vital actually, to maximize our offensive talent. If they wanted improved defense Mcphee should have looked at the roster and seen, as any idiot could, that the easiest way to do so is improving on crap like Jurcina, Schultz, Sloan, Corvo, Pothier and Morrisonnnnnn.
And one way of improving the defensive personnel is to wait for the likes of Alzner and Carlson to work their way into the lineup and gain experience.

I'm sure that wouldn't have changed things as quickly as some would have liked but if this team had just kept on keeping on with Boudreau and his ultra aggressive system we would be in a much, much, much better place now.

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02-04-2013, 12:56 PM
  #796
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And one way of improving the defensive personnel is to wait for the likes of Alzner and Carlson to work their way into the lineup and gain experience.

I'm sure that wouldn't have changed things as quickly as some would have liked but if this team had just kept on keeping on with Boudreau and his ultra aggressive system we would be in a much, much, much better place now.
About as impossible to prove as my belief that the run and gun mentality destroyed the "young guns" development, got a lot of people paid, and is the catalyst for this garbage.

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02-04-2013, 12:57 PM
  #797
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Most teams that win do so with their best players not being their best players for large stretches of time.
That is garbage. I'm not saying all your best players need to be going every game to win but for the most part a couple need to be going every game to win. Often with long playoff runs you see a couple guys carry the team through one series and a couple others through the next and then the first guys through the next series again.

If you think it is possible to build a winning team where 2 guys with a combined $16.2+ mil cap hit provide very little I don't know what to tell you.

For a combined cap hit of $17.4 mil Crosby and Malkin have put up 25 points in 9 games while Ovechkin and Backstrom have 11 points in the same amount of games. I'm sure this has nothing to do where each team sits in the standings right now...

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02-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #798
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About as impossible to prove as my belief that the run and gun mentality destroyed the "young guns" development, got a lot of people paid, and is the catalyst for this garbage.
The only young gun who didn't play a significant number of NHL games for someone else before Boudreau and his run and gun system got to town was Backstrom. You can put his development on Boudreau and the run and gun if you want but not the other three. Yet when Boudreau was trapping his way to a firing last year Backstrom was the only one of the four still getting it done for the most part so how bad could that run and gun have been for his development?

And if we are only discussing things that can be proven around here then there should be a whole lot fewer threads and posts...

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02-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #799
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That is garbage. I'm not saying all your best players need to be going every game to win but for the most part a couple need to be going every game to win. Often with long playoff runs you see a couple guys carry the team through one series and a couple others through the next and then the first guys through the next series again.

If you think it is possible to build a winning team where 2 guys with a combined $16.2+ mil cap hit provide very little I don't know what to tell you.

For a combined cap hit of $17.4 mil Crosby and Malkin have put up 25 points in 9 games while Ovechkin and Backstrom have 11 points in the same amount of games. I'm sure this has nothing to do where each team sits in the standings right now...
I'm frankly surprised it's that much.

Your best players have to be your best players. It's a truism, and it i accurate.

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02-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #800
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The only young gun who didn't play a significant number of NHL games for someone else before Boudreau and his run and gun system got to town was Backstrom. You can put his development on Boudreau and the run and gun if you want but not the other three. Yet when Boudreau was trapping his way to a firing last year Backstrom was the only one of the four still getting it done for the most part so how bad could that run and gun have been for his development?

And if we are only discussing things that can be proven around here then there should be a whole lot fewer threads and posts...
You stated your opinion as a fact. So I opined. Oh I loved that FACT post of so many years ago (only a few may remember it)

Your post premise is like saying a step-dad can only influence his new born, not the 3 and 5yr old from his wife's previous marriage. Those young guns all had extreme success under BB and that became their paradigm for repeating success. This fall is not unexpected.

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