HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

OT: PED's in Hockey

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-03-2013, 12:41 PM
  #26
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,191
vCash: 500
I think one of the reasons hockey has a cleaner image than the other sports is the make up of the players. The majority of players are Canadian, and there's a lot of Western Europeans as well. Add to that the players generally being more humble and the fact that the media promotes the kid who comes from the small town and makes it big and it's not surprising that it has a better image.

It wouldn't shock me if there was less use in hockey compared to the other major sports but I think the % would still shock a lot of people

Sorinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #27
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I think one of the reasons hockey has a cleaner image than the other sports is the make up of the players. The majority of players are Canadian, and there's a lot of Western Europeans as well. Add to that the players generally being more humble and the fact that the media promotes the kid who comes from the small town and makes it big and it's not surprising that it has a better image.

It wouldn't shock me if there was less use in hockey compared to the other major sports but I think the % would still shock a lot of people
It would absolutely shock me if there was less use in hockey. If anything there is probably MORE use in hockey than anywhere. Hockey lends itself to the benefits of PEDs more than other sports so I dont see why it would be used less.

Hell, golfers are using it. VJ Singh just came out with a confession.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 02:05 PM
  #28
Rutabaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Country: France
Posts: 979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
What bothers me is that there's no WILL to stop it. Nobody wants to catch anything and all the leagues want to sweep it under the rug. The technology exists to catch at least some of this stuff but nobody wants to do it. The testing is a joke and the pro leagues don't care.
Well, we just have to see how much of a mess is cycling right now to understand that the repercussions of a real fight are not that positive.

There is problems with how to turn this into an asset PR-wise, which is quite difficult considering how large is the number of players that are probably over the line, and we also have to consider the fact that more often that not, cheaters are ahead of the controlers and often have a better knowledge of the products.

There is a huge trial currently going on in Spain about a doctor who was caught by the Guardia Civil, he was mostly working with pockets of blood that were treated (i'll skip the details) in order to be reimplanted into the patient, then, rejuvenated and completely fresh.
Cycling is the only sport to have done some work with that and caught several riders. Yet, everyone around the case knows that there is many sports also involved in this, like soccer, tennis and boxing for instance.

But right now, if you fight against doping, you are going to lose money and hurt your reputation. Even if you are cleaner than others.
For the record, as i see that some may think this, but doping never improves the quality of the show.

Rutabaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 02:22 PM
  #29
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Well, we just have to see how much of a mess is cycling right now to understand that the repercussions of a real fight are not that positive.

There is problems with how to turn this into an asset PR-wise, which is quite difficult considering how large is the number of players that are probably over the line, and we also have to consider the fact that more often that not, cheaters are ahead of the controlers and often have a better knowledge of the products.

There is a huge trial currently going on in Spain about a doctor who was caught by the Guardia Civil, he was mostly working with pockets of blood that were treated (i'll skip the details) in order to be reimplanted into the patient, then, rejuvenated and completely fresh.
Cycling is the only sport to have done some work with that and caught several riders. Yet, everyone around the case knows that there is many sports also involved in this, like soccer, tennis and boxing for instance.

But right now, if you fight against doping, you are going to lose money and hurt your reputation. Even if you are cleaner than others.
For the record, as i see that some may think this, but doping never improves the quality of the show.
Care to explain how bigger, faster and stronger athletes doesn't improve the show?

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 02:56 PM
  #30
Rutabaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Country: France
Posts: 979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Care to explain how bigger, faster and stronger athletes doesn't improve the show?
Simply because they're not linked.

Were the Stanley Cup finals of 1992 less exciting than the ones of 2002 or 2012 ?
The difference between the average size/speed of the players wont make a difference in how you're going to judge it.

Rutabaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #31
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Care to explain how bigger, faster and stronger athletes doesn't improve the show?
I'd guess most fans get enjoyment from feats of athleticism relative to other athletes of a particular time, rather than relative to others throughout history. I do, anyway. If the best players in the world were slower and smaller, that wouldn't change the thrill of watching one player skate around or through another.

Roulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 03:03 PM
  #32
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Simply because they're not linked.

Were the Stanley Cup finals of 1992 less exciting than the ones of 2002 or 2012 ?
The difference between the average size/speed of the players wont make a difference in how you're going to judge it.
I disagree, watch games in the 70's and 80's and 90's and the game is so much slower. Players today are machines.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 03:06 PM
  #33
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I'd guess most fans get enjoyment from feats of athleticism relative to other athletes of a particular time, rather than relative to others throughout history. I do, anyway. If the best players in the world were slower and smaller, that wouldn't change the thrill of watching one player skate around or through another.
Yeah I understand what you mean, but unless you can guarantee a level playing field the game will never be fair. The users are always a step ahead of the testers, especially in hockey with such ridiculous drug testing policies, I say let em juice and make it fair.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 03:21 PM
  #34
Rutabaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Country: France
Posts: 979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
I disagree, watch games in the 70's and 80's and 90's and the game is so much slower. Players today are machines.

So, since the game, as it is played right now, is much slower than in 2032, why do you watch it ? (And slower doesnt means worse)
Anyway, you can only compare to what you currently have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Yeah I understand what you mean, but unless you can guarantee a level playing field the game will never be fair. The users are always a step ahead of the testers, especially in hockey with such ridiculous drug testing policies, I say let em juice and make it fair.
Except that wont change anything and especially not make it fair.

The limit will always be moved, because of the human nature.
The winners are going to be the ones ready to submit their bodies to the worst possible products and/or the richest ones, able to buy the best pill on the market.

Is it your idea of fair ?

Rutabaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 03:49 PM
  #35
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
So, since the game, as it is played right now, is much slower than in 2032, why do you watch it ? (And slower doesnt means worse)
Anyway, you can only compare to what you currently have.



Except that wont change anything and especially not make it fair.

The limit will always be moved, because of the human nature.
The winners are going to be the ones ready to submit their bodies to the worst possible products and/or the richest ones, able to buy the best pill on the market.

Is it your idea of fair ?
There is only a finite number of PED's, and as I said earlier, more steroids doesn't mean better results. Most anabolic and androgenic steroids are derivatives of synthetic testosterone, not some crazy poisonous chemicals. And the most expensive PED, HGH, is still relatively cheap. The only problem I see are the athletes that absolutely want to stay clean and refuse to take anything, its not fair for them. But these guys are pro athletes and fierce competitors, I suspect like the alphas that they are that they are always looking for that edge to be the best.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 06:02 PM
  #36
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Well, we just have to see how much of a mess is cycling right now to understand that the repercussions of a real fight are not that positive.

There is problems with how to turn this into an asset PR-wise, which is quite difficult considering how large is the number of players that are probably over the line, and we also have to consider the fact that more often that not, cheaters are ahead of the controlers and often have a better knowledge of the products.

There is a huge trial currently going on in Spain about a doctor who was caught by the Guardia Civil, he was mostly working with pockets of blood that were treated (i'll skip the details) in order to be reimplanted into the patient, then, rejuvenated and completely fresh.
Cycling is the only sport to have done some work with that and caught several riders. Yet, everyone around the case knows that there is many sports also involved in this, like soccer, tennis and boxing for instance.

But right now, if you fight against doping, you are going to lose money and hurt your reputation. Even if you are cleaner than others.
For the record, as i see that some may think this, but doping never improves the quality of the show.
It has to come from the league itself. No player is going to push for this.

As for the damage to the game, imagine the damage it would do if information starts leaking out that some of the great players from the 80s and 90s were doping. Imagine the damage it does to the game's credibility.

Look at baseball's HOF. It was once the gold standard of HOFs. Only the best got in but now they're keeping out several of the game's best players. Bonds, Clemens and Piazza are all eligible but aren't getting in. It would be like keeping out Patrick Roy, Joe Sakic and Mark Messier... just unthinkable. But unfortunately that's the situation over there. And it's a real problem because how do you have a HOF but omit an entire generation of players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
There is only a finite number of PED's, and as I said earlier, more steroids doesn't mean better results. Most anabolic and androgenic steroids are derivatives of synthetic testosterone, not some crazy poisonous chemicals. And the most expensive PED, HGH, is still relatively cheap. The only problem I see are the athletes that absolutely want to stay clean and refuse to take anything, its not fair for them. But these guys are pro athletes and fierce competitors, I suspect like the alphas that they are that they are always looking for that edge to be the best.
Nobody cared about steroids in baseball either. Even as far back as '88 most folks knew that Canseco was juicing. But once guys like McGwire started breaking Ruth's records it suddenly became a really big deal.

Same thing will happen in hockey if anyone starts approaching Gretzky's numbers. All of a sudden people are going to care a whole lot more than they used to.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 06:27 PM
  #37
Ubercron9000
Registered User
 
Ubercron9000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
So, since the game, as it is played right now, is much slower than in 2032, why do you watch it ? (And slower doesnt means worse)
Anyway, you can only compare to what you currently have.



Except that wont change anything and especially not make it fair.

The limit will always be moved, because of the human nature.
The winners are going to be the ones ready to submit their bodies to the worst possible products and/or the richest ones, able to buy the best pill on the market.

Is it your idea of fair ?
I dont feel that doping is cheating. Its a form of trying to be a better athelete. Why do we care if people put stuff in there bodies that may have harmful effects to ones body but we dont go mad at pharmaceutacal companies for putting out harmful medications? Are we cheating at life for trying to make our lives easier?

I"ve never used ped's but i dont care if atheletes do it. Mostly because i would use them to. People will always use them so why not allow for only a few of them to be allowed. Instead we have this holier than thou attitude with a scewed morality that ped's are bad and denouce it. They probably know f all about ped's.

Athletes aren't any better when they say "i dont know much about ped's". Please!!! They know about it and if they arent using they have thought about using. It is kinda like an investment spend 10g's a year and get a raise for playing better and make your money back 10 folds...

Ubercron9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:18 PM
  #38
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubercron9000 View Post
I dont feel that doping is cheating. Its a form of trying to be a better athelete. Why do we care if people put stuff in there bodies that may have harmful effects to ones body but we dont go mad at pharmaceutacal companies for putting out harmful medications? Are we cheating at life for trying to make our lives easier?

I"ve never used ped's but i dont care if atheletes do it. Mostly because i would use them to. People will always use them so why not allow for only a few of them to be allowed. Instead we have this holier than thou attitude with a scewed morality that ped's are bad and denouce it. They probably know f all about ped's.

Athletes aren't any better when they say "i dont know much about ped's". Please!!! They know about it and if they arent using they have thought about using. It is kinda like an investment spend 10g's a year and get a raise for playing better and make your money back 10 folds...
And if some guy manages to develop some new PED and shatters all of Gretzky's records you're cool with this?

As for it not being fair... of course PEDs aren't fair and of course its cheating. Some guys use and some guys don't. And some guys have better drugs... There's nothing fair about this.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:22 PM
  #39
DJ Breadman
Registered User
 
DJ Breadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,303
vCash: 500
There was a podcast recently with victor conte It may have been on joe rogans show I forget where it was but he said if you fail a ped test today your an idiot, suggesting the drugs are so far ahead of the testing

DJ Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:24 PM
  #40
Rutabaga
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Country: France
Posts: 979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
There is only a finite number of PED's, and as I said earlier, more steroids doesn't mean better results. Most anabolic and androgenic steroids are derivatives of synthetic testosterone, not some crazy poisonous chemicals. And the most expensive PED, HGH, is still relatively cheap. The only problem I see are the athletes that absolutely want to stay clean and refuse to take anything, its not fair for them. But these guys are pro athletes and fierce competitors, I suspect like the alphas that they are that they are always looking for that edge to be the best.
A finite number of PED ?
I dont think so. The number of options available for dopers is large and its a world with moving frontiers.

And according to the level of anti-doping fight, it could be possible to eventually (important word) catch every one of them.

Most of the products are not that dangerous ? Really ?
For instance, you probably should look at the italian soccer of the 80's and the surprisingly high number of players dead or severely ill before reaching 50 or even 40.

Today, its probably safer, obviously, but when you have players ready to take risks and try experimental products in order to possibly win a couple of tenths, two pounds or being able to reach a concentration and focus of 101%, i find very hard to believe that there isnt a significant part of those people that wont get hurt, especially if you move the lines.

Being a competitor doesnt prevent you to have some pride and honor. Some of the competitors want to be able to look at themselves on the mirror...

For the league, at the moment where you start to deal with doping, anyway, i dont know exactly how you could end up with a positive reaction about the sport involved in such a problem.
Most, if not every single one, of the major doping cases and trials made in Europe were started by police investigations.

Anyway, everything is done to prevent any problem around this subject. If you dont really control and test, there is no risk of a bad news...

Rutabaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:30 PM
  #41
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
You say control, test and ban the cheaters. I say let them 'cheat'. If everyone is cheating, atleast it's fair. Is sleeping in an elevation chamber cheating? It increases red blood cells. But then so does EPO which is illegal. It's their bodies, let them do what they want. We won't agree on the subject anyways..

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:34 PM
  #42
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
There is only a finite number of PED's, and as I said earlier, more steroids doesn't mean better results. Most anabolic and androgenic steroids are derivatives of synthetic testosterone, not some crazy poisonous chemicals. And the most expensive PED, HGH, is still relatively cheap. The only problem I see are the athletes that absolutely want to stay clean and refuse to take anything, its not fair for them. But these guys are pro athletes and fierce competitors, I suspect like the alphas that they are that they are always looking for that edge to be the best.
Anabolic and androgenic steroids have numerous deleterious effects. Testosterone administration sharply increases the risk of prostate cancer, so in a way it is a crazy poisonous chemical. Even when it doesn't it furthers prostatic hypertrophy and reduces spermatogenesis. I'm an old man but I'm not tempted to try it even if did produce the illusion of youthful vigor. I've seen commercials for a topical gel that contains androgenic steroids but at least the vendor acknowledges the potential side effects.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:35 PM
  #43
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
A finite number of PED ?
I dont think so. The number of options available for dopers is large and its a world with moving frontiers.

And according to the level of anti-doping fight, it could be possible to eventually (important word) catch every one of them.

Most of the products are not that dangerous ? Really ?
For instance, you probably should look at the italian soccer of the 80's and the surprisingly high number of players dead or severely ill before reaching 50 or even 40.


Today, its probably safer, obviously, but when you have players ready to take risks and try experimental products in order to possibly win a couple of tenths, two pounds or being able to reach a concentration and focus of 101%, i find very hard to believe that there isnt a significant part of those people that wont get hurt, especially if you move the lines.

Being a competitor doesnt prevent you to have some pride and honor. Some of the competitors want to be able to look at themselves on the mirror...

For the league, at the moment where you start to deal with doping, anyway, i dont know exactly how you could end up with a positive reaction about the sport involved in such a problem.
Most, if not every single one, of the major doping cases and trials made in Europe were started by police investigations.

Anyway, everything is done to prevent any problem around this subject. If you dont really control and test, there is no risk of a bad news...
The thing that is scary is that over a small period, they're not dangerous(still no good) but players have to be at their best for all their careers... Wether they start taking it to get to the next level or to stay in the league... So this mean they will need to take it from 22-38?? That's long and crazy. This is how it gets dangerous.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 08:45 PM
  #44
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Anabolic and androgenic steroids have numerous deleterious effects. Testosterone administration sharply increases the risk of prostate cancer, so in a way it is a crazy poisonous chemical. Even when it doesn't it furthers prostatic hypertrophy and reduces spermatogenesis. I'm an old man but I'm not tempted to try it even if did produce the illusion of youthful vigor. I've seen commercials for a topical gel that contains androgenic steroids but at least the vendor acknowledges the potential side effects.
Which is why people use them smartly and cycle them. Nobody stays on them all year except pro bodybuilders, and even they go through cycles of high dosages followed by very low dosages. I suspect athletes cycle during the playoffs and during the off season training, and simply use stims during the season.

Testosterone isn't more dangerous then alcohol or tobacco. You can even die by taking too much advil. There is a smart way to use (not abuse) PEDs and I suspect many athletes are even doing it under doctor supervision.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 09:26 PM
  #45
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Which is why people use them smartly and cycle them. Nobody stays on them all year except pro bodybuilders, and even they go through cycles of high dosages followed by very low dosages. I suspect athletes cycle during the playoffs and during the off season training, and simply use stims during the season.

Testosterone isn't more dangerous then alcohol or tobacco. You can even die by taking too much advil. There is a smart way to use (not abuse) PEDs and I suspect many athletes are even doing it under doctor supervision.
Lets put it that way... When you do cycle it's like if you put your body into flames and extinguished it... And doing it over again... It might slow down the effects but it doesnt cancel them.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 09:33 PM
  #46
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Lets put it that way... When you do cycle it's like if you put your body into flames and extinguished it... And doing it over again... It might slow down the effects but it doesnt cancel them.
Sure it does cause some damage to the body, but does it cause more than an overweight person with bad eating habits? I'm not so sure.

There is no evidence that mild to moderate use can cause irreperable damage to the human body.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 09:53 PM
  #47
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Sure it does cause some damage to the body, but does it cause more than an overweight person with bad eating habits? I'm not so sure.

There is no evidence that mild to moderate use can cause irreperable damage to the human body.
Your statement doesnt bring anything here... I don't know much professional athlete that are overweight.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 10:00 PM
  #48
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Your statement doesnt bring anything here... I don't know much professional athlete that are overweight.
I'm just saying that pro athletes have good nutrition habits, and the average North American has average to bad eating habits, who is doing more damage to their body?

I won't shed a tear for the athletes health, just like I won't get angry when I see an overweight man eating french fries. They are doing it to themselves.

Lying to kids and it not being fair for the athletes that don't juice are arguments that make me say control, test and ban. But it's just not going to happen, which is why I say level the playing field.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 10:03 PM
  #49
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
I'm just saying that pro athletes have good nutrition habits, and the average North American has average to bad eating habits, who is doing more damage to their body?

I won't shed a tear for the athletes health, just like I won't get angry when I see an overweight man eating french fries. They are doing it to themselves.

Lying to kids and it not being fair for the athletes that don't juice are arguments that make me say control, test and ban. But it's just not going to happen, which is why I say level the playing field.
This is just too simple. You cannot think like that, at the end of the day we all love sports and we just need to make it better.

Its not fair for people who dream of playing in this league...
Ask me what's my biggest dream ? Well NHL hockey for sure. If I was in the AHL would I do ANYTHING to get to the next level ? Sure as hell.
It's just about making it fair for every one and to make it more ''morally acceptable'' nothing else.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2013, 10:11 PM
  #50
Galchenyuk94
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
There is a reason no sport has successfully gotten rid of the situation. Deep down I think owners don't really mind what the players do to themselves, it makes the show better and more money for them.

Galchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.