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Old
01-31-2013, 11:26 PM
  #76
Av-merican
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
A very important issue. If the Avs continue to be frugal this offseason, then we all know for sure.
I'm not going to hold ownership to that on one offseason alone. If the market is as weak as it's been the last few years, then I don't want them to spend stupid money like the Blue Jackets did a couple years ago out of desperation.

Overall, I just want to see an ownership group that at least appears to care whether or not this team is winning. If that means a marquee free agent could be had and he'd be a good fit with the Avs, great. But there are other ways to show the fanbase that progress is being made.

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Old
01-31-2013, 11:41 PM
  #77
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Very appreciated dialog between Bender and ABasin. Nice work and entertaining reading.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:17 AM
  #78
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I agree with AB that Sherman has essentially done a whole lot of one step forward, one step back.

We are no better than we were in 2009. I am happy with many of the pieces we've acquired in that time (Duchene, Landeskog, O'reilly, Johnson, Varlamov). But the trouble is that outside of those key players we have one of the most singularly unskilled rosters in the league, and we don't have a ton of system depth to make moves to improve it.

To me, a big part of that is that we've had a few key setbacks/wasted assets that are really hurting where we're at in our rebuild and those are the Hishon pick (concussion, wasting 1st round pick and possible top 6 player), Wolski trade (Mueller concussion, lost asset equivalent of a 1st round pick/top 6 player), Hannan trade (Flash PE, lost top 6 player), and then the Liles trade (poor return, loss of offense from blue line). To me those are signficant setbacks.

We are still in this for the long haul. We're going to have to draft strongly for probably 3 more seasons and continue to try to make smart trades and signings before this team goes anywhere in my opinion.

Some of the things that frustrate me to no end is that Sherman, like previous Avs management, is simply unwilling to bring in competent coaching. In addition, the lack of quality veteran leadership is disturbing. Our team certainly has gotten a lot older with the additions of Hejda, Zanon, and Kobasew but none of these are really great leadership/mentor type players. The Giguere signing was the only valuable leadership that's been brought in.

Bottom line, we're in year 4 of the rebuild, and we aren't any better than we were in 2009. An unacceptable result in my mind.

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02-01-2013, 12:38 AM
  #79
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So far my lone gripe with Greg from Accounting is that he couldn't bring us that top 3 defender to play with EJ. We may not have had a chance with Sutter, but we really couldn't outbid Vancouver by a little and get Garrison? I get wanting to go home to play for a contender, but he'd have been on our first pairing and would look so good next to EJ as the reliable defender, solid passer and great shoot that could really bring the most out of EJ. That one move would transform the team, all of a sudden we'd have a good d with
Garrison-EJ
Hejda-Wilson
Zanon-Barrie
Hunwick-O'Byrne

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:18 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Very appreciated dialog between Bender and ABasin. Nice work and entertaining reading.
...and to think, he 'almost' walked!!! (Glad you didn't )

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=25

Found this by accident while googling, looking for something else. That 'lobster dinner' quote was hilarious!

Same old nepotism - multiplied 7 fold with the hiring of EL. Not a recipe for success.

The two good pieces of news here, are that Granato and Cloutier are both gone.

I feel like I just had a great lobster dinner and got punched in the stomach at the same time.

-AB

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
...and to think, he 'almost' walked!!! (Glad you didn't )

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=25

Found this by accident while googling, looking for something else. That 'lobster dinner' quote was hilarious!

Same old nepotism - multiplied 7 fold with the hiring of EL. Not a recipe for success.

The two good pieces of news here, are that Granato and Cloutier are both gone.

I feel like I just had a great lobster dinner and got punched in the stomach at the same time.

-AB
Heh. Good to see an old post that I still feel the same way about. And somewhere along the line I lost my signature. When did this happen? :-)

And herein lies the real issue with all of the 'fire Sherman'/'fire Sacco' dialogue: we're simply going to get the same old same old. Which in English means that the Avs will hire yet another inferior internal "yes man" for PL. If Sherman leaves, Eric (with all of his video experience) will be the GM. If Sacco leaves, one of the Erie guys (with one year of NHL bench experience) will be the coach. All the while, ignoring better prospects outside the organization.

The person who needs to be removed from the organization's management is not the GM or the coach.

Edit: Well, actually they probably do need to be removed. But not without one other management member with them. Else, it won't matter.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:17 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Heh. Good to see an old post that I still feel the same way about. And somewhere along the line I lost my signature. When did this happen? :-)

And herein lies the real issue with all of the 'fire Sherman'/'fire Sacco' dialogue: we're simply going to get the same old same old. Which in English means that the Avs will hire yet another inferior internal "yes man" for PL. If Sherman leaves, Eric (with all of his video experience) will be the GM. If Sacco leaves, one of the Erie guys (with one year of NHL bench experience) will be the coach. All the while, ignoring better prospects outside the organization.

The person who needs to be removed from the organization's management is not the GM or the coach.
I can TOTALLY see this happening!! (<-going through lots of emotions)

When or why did we buy-in to this 'insider-only' philosophy towards coaching. If I could ask the Avalanche organization only ONE question, that would be it. What kind of advantage is it, REALLY? I don't get it.

We all know the track record:
- Crawford -> stolen from the Leafs organization (AHL)
- Hartley -> AHL replacement from within
- Granato -> Former teammates with Eric, friend of the Lacroix family, therefore OVER-qualified
- Quenneville -> Former Avs assistant coach under Crawford
- Granato AGAIN -> still over-qualified | I wonder if he's still friends with the Lacroixs today (doubt it)
- Sacco -> AHL replacement from within

+ countless former Avs players as Assistants (ok, maybe there is a way to count them)

What happened PL? Who hurt you?

Did the Crawford falling out have such a dramatic effect on him that he figured from now on, he'd only hire coaches that he was familiar with??

I really don't understand the BENEFITS of being so narrow minded when it comes to coaches. Will bringing in a guy like Peter Laviolette or John Tortorella destroy the Avs organizations somehow?? Is he afraid of getting Ted Nolan-ed???

So many questions.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:21 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I can TOTALLY see this happening!! (<-going through lots of emotions)

When or why did we buy-in to this 'insider-only' philosophy towards coaching. If I could ask the Avalanche organization only ONE question, that would be it. What kind of advantage is it, REALLY? I don't get it.

We all know the track record:
- Crawford -> stolen from the Leafs organization (AHL)
- Hartley -> AHL replacement from within
- Granato -> Former teammates with Eric, friend of the Lacroix family, therefore OVER-qualified
- Quenneville -> Former Avs assistant coach under Crawford
- Granato AGAIN -> still over-qualified | I wonder if he's still friends with the Lacroixs today (doubt it)
- Sacco -> AHL replacement from within

+ countless former Avs players as Assistants (ok, maybe there is a way to count them)

What happened PL? Who hurt you?

Did the Crawford falling out have such a dramatic effect on him that he figured from now on, he'd only hire coaches that he was familiar with??

I really don't understand the BENEFITS of being so narrow minded when it comes to coaches. Will bringing in a guy like Peter Laviolette or John Tortorella destroy the Avs organizations somehow?? Is he afraid of getting Ted Nolan-ed???

So many questions.
This is the facial expression answer you would get:


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Old
02-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I can TOTALLY see this happening!! (<-going through lots of emotions)

When or why did we buy-in to this 'insider-only' philosophy towards coaching. If I could ask the Avalanche organization only ONE question, that would be it. What kind of advantage is it, REALLY? I don't get it.

We all know the track record:
- Crawford -> stolen from the Leafs organization (AHL)
- Hartley -> AHL replacement from within
- Granato -> Former teammates with Eric, friend of the Lacroix family, therefore OVER-qualified
- Quenneville -> Former Avs assistant coach under Crawford
- Granato AGAIN -> still over-qualified | I wonder if he's still friends with the Lacroixs today (doubt it)
- Sacco -> AHL replacement from within


+ countless former Avs players as Assistants (ok, maybe there is a way to count them)

What happened PL? Who hurt you?

Did the Crawford falling out have such a dramatic effect on him that he figured from now on, he'd only hire coaches that he was familiar with??

I really don't understand the BENEFITS of being so narrow minded when it comes to coaches. Will bringing in a guy like Peter Laviolette or John Tortorella destroy the Avs organizations somehow?? Is he afraid of getting Ted Nolan-ed???

So many questions.
It's much worse than just that list. Now do the same thing with both assistant coaches and GMs, and let me know what you come up with.

As to why PL does this? I have a theory, though in truth it's just conjecture on my part: One, it gives him control - if he hires inexperienced or underqualified guys who won't (or worse, due to their inexperience or lack of ability, can't) question or challenge him (except in the most inert politically correct manner), control is then easy. Two, it makes the ship run smoothly (due to ass kissing by said 'yes men' and lack of putting forth new ideas or better means of doing things or challenging the current way of doing things) - perhaps not terribly effectively or optimally or successfully - but internally smoothly.

I am of the belief that this is precisely what PL is doing. There really isn't any other explanation that my limited brain can come up with. For example, they hired an inexperienced accountant as a GM, and gave Deadmarsh one of 64 NHL assistant coaching jobs in the world, when he hadn't ever even coached so much as a midget team before. This is trying to get the best available coaches? That's just two simple examples. There are a lot of examples of this in Avs' history - hiring inside guys when there are clearly better candidates outside.

I see absolutely no end in sight to this, as long as PL is in the organization in any capacity, let alone leading it.

And I am also of the belief that PL is very active in Sherman's 'decisions'.

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:01 AM
  #85
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So far my lone gripe with Greg from Accounting is that he couldn't bring us that top 3 defender to play with EJ. We may not have had a chance with Sutter, but we really couldn't outbid Vancouver by a little and get Garrison? I get wanting to go home to play for a contender, but he'd have been on our first pairing and would look so good next to EJ as the reliable defender, solid passer and great shoot that could really bring the most out of EJ. That one move would transform the team, all of a sudden we'd have a good d with
Garrison-EJ
Hejda-Wilson
Zanon-Barrie
Hunwick-O'Byrne
Garrison is not a top 3 defender IMO. He's a flash in the pan and dont think he'll ever put up the numbers he did last year again.

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:16 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
It's much worse than just that list. Now do the same thing with both assistant coaches and GMs, and let me know what you come up with.

As to why PL does this? I have a theory, though in truth it's just conjecture on my part: One, it gives him control - if he hires inexperienced or underqualified guys who won't (or worse, due to their inexperience or lack of ability, can't) question or challenge him (except in the most inert politically correct manner), control is then easy. Two, it makes the ship run smoothly (due to ass kissing by said 'yes men' and lack of putting forth new ideas or better means of doing things or challenging the current way of doing things) - perhaps not terribly effectively or optimally or successfully - but internally smoothly.

I am of the belief that this is precisely what PL is doing. There really isn't any other explanation that my limited brain can come up with. For example, they hired an inexperienced accountant as a GM, and gave Deadmarsh one of 64 NHL assistant coaching jobs in the world, when he hadn't ever even coached so much as a midget team before. This is trying to get the best available coaches? That's just two simple examples. There are a lot of examples of this in Avs' history - hiring inside guys when there are clearly better candidates outside.

I see absolutely no end in sight to this, as long as PL is in the organization in any capacity, let alone leading it.

And I am also of the belief that PL is very active in Sherman's 'decisions'.
I agree with everything you wrote there. The worst part is that the only person who could fire PL is Kroenke, and he isn't going to do that. You would think that he would see that the franchise is stagnating, and that he would do something about it, but it doesn't seem like he will. PL must either have Kroenke completely buffaloed, and he thinks we're on the right track, or he really doesn't care right now -- he has other interests that take his full attention (Arsenal and Rams).

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
So far my lone gripe with Greg from Accounting is that he couldn't bring us that top 3 defender to play with EJ. We may not have had a chance with Sutter, but we really couldn't outbid Vancouver by a little and get Garrison? I get wanting to go home to play for a contender, but he'd have been on our first pairing and would look so good next to EJ as the reliable defender, solid passer and great shoot that could really bring the most out of EJ. That one move would transform the team, all of a sudden we'd have a good d with
Garrison-EJ
Hejda-Wilson
Zanon-Barrie
Hunwick-O'Byrne
It was obvious before and after the UFA period that Garrison wanted to play in Vancouver. Don't think we had muh of a shot at him.

I think our lack of real #1-3 defenseman besides EJ is killing the team, but if we look at the situations, there wasn't a whole lot of options for Sherman. Apart from handing out crazy contracts, or overpaying through the nose in a trade.

They're just gonna have to wait until the right situation presents itself, and hope they have the assets or enough interest for a trade or UFA. Streit is the next UFA dream target, but there doesn't appear to be an obvious reason why he would choose the Avs over another team, especially out east, unless him and PA are best buds.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #88
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Whitney would be interesting if he could just stay healthy. He is a 1st pairing lefty that could put up 40 points if he ever played 75+ games. I could see him being a good partner next to EJ and a player worth taking a shot at a 4 year $20m deal on. If he stayed injured all the time the deal would look bad, but if you could get 60 games a season out of him it might not be too bad. Not ideal by any means, but better than killing our center depth.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:01 PM
  #89
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I'm not going to hold ownership to that on one offseason alone.
Oh, I am. In this particular offseason.

Because it's not one offseason alone. For a couple of offseasons, it was due to "the rebuild". Then for a couple more, we had the CBA shadow coming our way, which was cited as a reason not to spend. Now, neither of those are valid anymore, IMO.

If they don't get themselves into the top half of NHL salary spending next season, we know exactly what many of us suspect right here and now: that salary is the single most important driving factor in putting a team on the ice, and that the Colorado franchise has officially become Edmonton/Nashville/NYIslanders/Columbus/etc from a spending perspective.

And likely from an expectations perspective as well.

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02-01-2013, 01:17 PM
  #90
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Remember when Coach Q parted ways. He said management was a bit too confident in the abilities of the young guy. And we still see the same things. The Liles trade sticks in my mind as they believed Elliot and/or Barrie would be ready sooner.

The guys like Gali, Jones, Stewart, Stastny, hell even Yip, who we thought would be much better should have been either shipped out or had their roles reduced. I think they've done a good job bringing in better talent to push Stastny and Jones down the depth chart. Hard not to when you've had a #2 and #3 pick though. I'm overall happy with the forward group and the prospect pool. If Hishon can recover there's some decent depth there.

I'm very unhappy with the treatment of the defense. Bringing in a stud prospect who needs a lot of development and coaching help. Then surrounding him with no veteran talents to help him and giving him terrible coaches. EJ had the ability and potential to be a bona fide #1 and possibly top 10 defender. He'll never become that now. It's a damn shame. Also moving Liles and bringing in Hejda wasn't a good move. I can see wanting to bring in a steady stay at home guy to play with EJ. But why move Liles when he's a very good puck moving #4 when he's sheltered?

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
This is the facial expression answer you would get:

Lol yeah probably but it's important to note that, that guy is STILL my hero. (despite the aforementioned issues with coaching and obvious nepotism)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
It's much worse than just that list. Now do the same thing with both assistant coaches and GMs, and let me know what you come up with.

As to why PL does this? I have a theory, though in truth it's just conjecture on my part: One, it gives him control - if he hires inexperienced or underqualified guys who won't (or worse, due to their inexperience or lack of ability, can't) question or challenge him (except in the most inert politically correct manner), control is then easy. Two, it makes the ship run smoothly (due to ass kissing by said 'yes men' and lack of putting forth new ideas or better means of doing things or challenging the current way of doing things) - perhaps not terribly effectively or optimally or successfully - but internally smoothly.

I am of the belief that this is precisely what PL is doing. There really isn't any other explanation that my limited brain can come up with. For example, they hired an inexperienced accountant as a GM, and gave Deadmarsh one of 64 NHL assistant coaching jobs in the world, when he hadn't ever even coached so much as a midget team before. This is trying to get the best available coaches? That's just two simple examples. There are a lot of examples of this in Avs' history - hiring inside guys when there are clearly better candidates outside.

I see absolutely no end in sight to this, as long as PL is in the organization in any capacity, let alone leading it.

And I am also of the belief that PL is very active in Sherman's 'decisions'.
I've been saying this for years, since he turned the reigns over to Francois Giguere.

I personally don't have too much of a problem with it though. I mean, in the last 30 years, if you go through all of the teams that came 'oh so close' but just couldn't get over the hump to get a championship, that would be a pretty long list. PL was able to put the right pieces in place and bring 2 championships to Denver. I understand, he had one hell of a core but you cannot take for granted the deals he made to bring in what was needed to win a Cup, specifically for Roy and Bourque. The list of GMs that had teams on the verge but just didn't have the balls or the insight to make the move for that last final piece is very, very long.

I'm actually of the belief that if it wasn't for Lacroix's limited views on coaching and it's importance, that we actually would have more than 2 championships, I think we would have won 3 or more.

But when you take a step back and you make that comparison with the other 29 franchises and you start to analyse what's happened since the Avs moved to Denver, you can't really be too pissed. Well, at least I'm not.

I know what you mean about Deadmarsh but maybe there's another perspective, another way to see things. When the Avs gave Granato the old 'heave-ho' and hired on Joe Sacco as his replacement, they had a 29th place team and they had to know that an actual rebuild was inevitable. So they hired a 'cheap coach' because since you're rebuilding, there's no real point in paying a coach top dollar to finish 20th instead of 25th - I can see that logic. (you don't really know how long it's going to take for the turnaround) For the assistants, they kept in touch with a lot of their former players and perhaps some of them showed an interested in coaching in general and the Avs were happy to provide that opportunity since, it wasn't going to matter anyways right? [By the way, I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it should be that way, I'm just saying I kind of 'get' the logic behind it] Steve Konowalchuk is now a head coach in the WHL now after getting his start as an assistant.

After a while though, enough is enough and you have to bring in some coaches that will be bringing this team to the next level. Is that going to be David Quinn? Is that going to be Dean Chynoweth? Hard to say for sure but if I had to guess, I'd say the answer is no.

At the very least, within the next few weeks, if the team keeps showing that they can't really play for 60 minutes and aren't improving under his ahem systems, then Sacco should be shown the door. I understand that Quinn will be named as his successor but that should only be as an interim head coach, much like the Canadiens did last season with Randy Cunneyworth.

I still think, in the end, (probably this summer) the Avs will bring in either Patrick Roy or Jacques Martin. It fits with their M.O. and both those guys are going to want to get paid significantly more than what Sacco is surely earning right now. (really hope it's Roy rather than Martin though)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Oh, I am. In this particular offseason.

Because it's not one offseason alone. For a couple of offseasons, it was due to "the rebuild". Then for a couple more, we had the CBA shadow coming our way, which was cited as a reason not to spend. Now, neither of those are valid anymore, IMO.

If they don't get themselves into the top half of NHL salary spending next season, we know exactly what many of us suspect right here and now: that salary is the single most important driving factor in putting a team on the ice, and that the Colorado franchise has officially become Edmonton/Nashville/NYIslanders/Columbus/etc from a spending perspective.

And likely from an expectations perspective as well.
I get what you're saying but it's not like the Avs didn't spend this past off-season. They brought in Parenteau for $16M over 4 years and signed Jones to the same deal. Realistically speaking, they weren't going to get Suter or Parise. The Parenteau signing is a good one. Matt Carle might of been able to help but his INSANE cap hit of $5.5M per season priced them out of the market. (I wasn't sold on him at $4.5M!)

So I'm not expecting the Avs to throw money around and overpay for players the way some other teams do because in the grand scheme of things, that's how you **** yourself for the future. Is Calgary REALLY any better because they signed Denis frikkin' Wideman for $5.25M with NTC ??? I don't think so.

What I am expecting is for them to improve the team, with good signings like they did with the Parenteau signing.

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/

From this list, who should we throw money at, if they don't re-sign with their clubs?

Timonen?
Streit?
Whitney?
Regehr?

We might be able to plug the #3 hole on D but a partner for EJ, will likely have to be solved through trade.

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02-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
From this list, who should we throw money at, if they don't re-sign with their clubs?

Timonen?
Streit?
Whitney?
Regehr?

We might be able to plug the #3 hole on D but a partner for EJ, will likely have to be solved through trade.
Whitney and hope he stays healthy and comes for $5m or under (doubtful 5.5 is probably the key).

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
Remember when Coach Q parted ways. He said management was a bit too confident in the abilities of the young guy. And we still see the same things. The Liles trade sticks in my mind as they believed Elliot and/or Barrie would be ready sooner.

The guys like Gali, Jones, Stewart, Stastny, hell even Yip, who we thought would be much better should have been either shipped out or had their roles reduced. I think they've done a good job bringing in better talent to push Stastny and Jones down the depth chart. Hard not to when you've had a #2 and #3 pick though. I'm overall happy with the forward group and the prospect pool. If Hishon can recover there's some decent depth there.

I'm very unhappy with the treatment of the defense. Bringing in a stud prospect who needs a lot of development and coaching help. Then surrounding him with no veteran talents to help him and giving him terrible coaches. EJ had the ability and potential to be a bona fide #1 and possibly top 10 defender. He'll never become that now. It's a damn shame. Also moving Liles and bringing in Hejda wasn't a good move. I can see wanting to bring in a steady stay at home guy to play with EJ. But why move Liles when he's a very good puck moving #4 when he's sheltered?
Good post. I don't know if I'd agree with the 'no veteran talent' to help him...maybe more 'not the right' veteran talent. Hejda, O'Byrne and Zanon all fit the bill as veterans but none of those guys can really play with EJ.

The coaching is where the issue is and remains. Is Matt Hunwick seriously deserving of #1 minutes as he got last night? I would think NOT. Not on 29 other NHL teams and maybe even a few AHL teams.

I don't think all is lost for EJ. We've actually seen him take strides this season defensively and he's still progressing. He's still 24 years old. I believe they really need to find him a REAL partner, like a Marc Staal or a Karl Alzner that would really give EJ the opportunity to take the next step. You could play those guys 25-27 minutes a night and it would also take some of the pressure off the rest of the D, as they'd play less minutes. He still has some offensive upside, it's too bad that this team doesn't even give him 1st PP line responsibilities. Again, that's on coaching.

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02-01-2013, 05:56 PM
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Good post. I don't know if I'd agree with the 'no veteran talent' to help him...maybe more 'not the right' veteran talent. Hejda, O'Byrne and Zanon all fit the bill as veterans but none of those guys can really play with EJ.

The coaching is where the issue is and remains. Is Matt Hunwick seriously deserving of #1 minutes as he got last night? I would think NOT. Not on 29 other NHL teams and maybe even a few AHL teams.

I don't think all is lost for EJ. We've actually seen him take strides this season defensively and he's still progressing. He's still 24 years old. I believe they really need to find him a REAL partner, like a Marc Staal or a Karl Alzner that would really give EJ the opportunity to take the next step. You could play those guys 25-27 minutes a night and it would also take some of the pressure off the rest of the D, as they'd play less minutes. He still has some offensive upside, it's too bad that this team doesn't even give him 1st PP line responsibilities. Again, that's on coaching.
Hejda, O Byrne, Zanon are all vets. Hell none of them are even bad players. But another problem that has repeated itself in the past is too many "ok" type players playing over their heads. But none of them are a solid stay at home vet who can properly mentor EJ.

Much like under FG when they had Skrastins, Clark, etc. Even Brett frickin Clark isn't a bad hockey player. He's a reasonably adequate #5/6 guy in sheltered minutes making a low salary. Instead he was making ~3M (refresh my memory here) and playing big minutes. In the current cap world that's probably equivalent to a 5M guy now.

I don't mind EJ not being the green light offensive guy. If they put him with a good stay at home vet as a top pairing and let him push the play that's great and probably his ideal usage. But if they put him with a good but soft offensive puck mover and let him be a strong defensive presence that's also ok with me. He's big enough, strong enough, and smart enough to be that steadying defensive presence to help a truly skilled offense first player to shine. A Mike Green type of guy. Instead EJ is played with a guy like Wilson/Hunwick and he's supposed to be the guy who starts the offense AND the steadying defensive presence? Maybe a guy veteran guy like Pronger could've done that but not EJ. Not yet at least.

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02-02-2013, 10:18 AM
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Hejda, O Byrne, Zanon are all vets. Hell none of them are even bad players. But another problem that has repeated itself in the past is too many "ok" type players playing over their heads. But none of them are a solid stay at home vet who can properly mentor EJ.

Much like under FG when they had Skrastins, Clark, etc. Even Brett frickin Clark isn't a bad hockey player. He's a reasonably adequate #5/6 guy in sheltered minutes making a low salary. Instead he was making ~3M (refresh my memory here) and playing big minutes. In the current cap world that's probably equivalent to a 5M guy now.

I don't mind EJ not being the green light offensive guy. If they put him with a good stay at home vet as a top pairing and let him push the play that's great and probably his ideal usage. But if they put him with a good but soft offensive puck mover and let him be a strong defensive presence that's also ok with me. He's big enough, strong enough, and smart enough to be that steadying defensive presence to help a truly skilled offense first player to shine. A Mike Green type of guy. Instead EJ is played with a guy like Wilson/Hunwick and he's supposed to be the guy who starts the offense AND the steadying defensive presence? Maybe a guy veteran guy like Pronger could've done that but not EJ. Not yet at least.
$3.5M to be exact, with a $56.7M upper limit on the cap.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=529742

That's always been their problem since Forsberg, Blake, Foote, and Tanguay were forced to leave, and the cap eventually watered down their talent. Quantity but not quality.

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02-02-2013, 10:28 AM
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Hejda, O Byrne, Zanon are all vets. Hell none of them are even bad players.
True, but none of them are even close to 1st pairing material when it comes to puck movement. Hejda's the best of that bunch in that respect (by far), but he's even a notch below what you'd need to properly compliment EJ on a 1st pairing.

Two of those three players don't skate well either, btw (Hejda's mobility is actually pretty good). And what do you call defensemen who can't move the puck well and can't skate well? 3rd pairing/depth defensemen. At best.

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02-02-2013, 12:10 PM
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And what do you call defensemen who can't move the puck well and can't skate well? 3rd pairing/depth defensemen. At best.
Ryan O'Byrne

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02-03-2013, 07:12 PM
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http://a1.podbean.com/390029/FEB-003...vstlDeLZTRg%3D

At the 21min mark (aprox), Dater and co. bash sacco. Good listen at times... wouldn't listen to full podcast, skip ahead

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02-03-2013, 07:16 PM
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http://a1.podbean.com/390029/FEB-003...vstlDeLZTRg%3D

At the 21min mark (aprox), Dater and co. bash sacco. Good listen at times... wouldn't listen to full podcast, skip ahead
Funny how Dater has a podcast and fills it with random bloggers and fanboys. You would think a beat writer covering this team for almost 20 years would be able to feature better resources.

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02-03-2013, 07:18 PM
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Funny how Dater has a podcast and fills it with random bloggers and fanboys. You would think a beat writer covering this team for almost 20 years would be able to feature better resources.
And better microphones... poor audio...

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