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The Markov Conundrum

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Old
02-03-2013, 07:09 PM
  #26
Nedved
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hard to say no if someone overpays. team like the islanders would be a good trading partner, where we could land a pick and a decent d prospect.

I doubt I would trade him, but if the price was right, it would be difficult not to, you know?

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02-03-2013, 07:11 PM
  #27
disturbedraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
What's up with all the trading of Eller, Markov, etc.? Can't we just play with our team and utilize our depth? Why does every potential extra asset have to be traded to make the team slightly better?

Let the young guys like Eller play. Like the vets like Markov lead. Why do we are we making trades after 7-8 games of the season like we're favorites for the cup. We're not. We are a rebuilding team. Be patient and enjoy the good run.
This ain't the Eller thread, take that discussion to the right thread. Markov and Eller are two different beasts, and two different scenarios. And no one said anything about trading Markov after 7-8 games. However, you do seem to be contradicting yourself with the whole "rebuild mode and let the young guys play" while defending keeping Markov who would be preventing a young guy from playing (and holding back more young guys from coming in to the organization).

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02-03-2013, 07:18 PM
  #28
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We have so many young defensemen coming up in the next few years that you need to keep a guy like Markov. Having him in the lineup helps to pass on his skills to yunger players. During the game earlier they were talking about how BGally is hanging around Gionta and getting pointers on how to play hockey against bigger players. Gionta will help smaller players adjust to bigger stronger players.

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02-03-2013, 07:18 PM
  #29
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I would consider trading Markov at the trade deadline when his a pending UFA (next year only) AND if we're clearly out of the playoff race at that time.

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02-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #30
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Well no GM will be stupid enough not to take in consideration his previous injuries and age in the negotiations. I don't think we could so much out of the deal.
If we don't get a great offer, then just keep him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Guys when you're referring to the Habs and it's a single person it's not plurarized and becomes Hab.

For example: Markov will retire as a Hab.

Not as a Habs. It's even more annoying than someone spelling Josh Georges.
A lot of folks who post here have English as their 2nd language, take it easy.
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Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
Markov is retiring a Hab /thread.
The team is more important than any one player. If we can improve ourselves by dealing him, that's exactly what we should do.

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02-03-2013, 07:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
I figure you'd get a king's ransom from a team like Detroit for Markov... But at 6-2 you can't think about trading him, he's carried this team so far. I'll eat crow when I said he wasn't a number one defenseman anymore. He's all of that and more.
A lot of people considered Markov "injury prone" or "fragile", and used that to predict his inevitable and rapid decline.

I never felt that way simply because I remember all too well a young and promising Hab defenseman who broke a leg twice quite early in his career. Most assumed his career was done, but he surprised and went on to have a pretty decent run over the years. For those who don't know the story, it was Serge Savard, arguably the best D man who ever played in Montreal.


Last edited by groovejuice: 02-04-2013 at 01:00 AM.
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Old
02-03-2013, 07:37 PM
  #32
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Nope. And what's the point? This guy just received a big contract, seems to be playing like his old-self and single-handedly remade this team a treat on the PP. Trading him for prospects and draft picks would be a crapshoot and would set this team a year or two back. We also need him as a mentor for the Tinordis and Beaulieus.

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02-03-2013, 07:43 PM
  #33
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If we make the playoffs, anything can happen, especially with a guy like Price in the net. So no. If we are in 10 place or less in the conference, i would probably do it.

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02-03-2013, 07:45 PM
  #34
HarlemsFinest
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markov being so OG with this franchise, i'm sure all the new management guys have consulted him on mistakes he saw and think that ultimately became a negative turning point. he is a valuable wealth of knowledge to this team on the good and the bad.

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02-03-2013, 07:46 PM
  #35
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The return we'd get for Markov is not nearly as valuable as the experience and coaching he gives to his defensive partners. Remember: without Markov, Komisarek/Diaz/Souray/Streit were nothing.

If we trade away one great defenceman, we're trading away two great defencemen.

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02-03-2013, 07:46 PM
  #36
disturbedraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kassian View Post
Nope. what's the point? Trading him for prospects and draft picks would be a crapshoot and would set this team a year or two back. We also need him as a mentor for the Tinordis and Beaulieus.

What's the point? see post #1


Crapshoot on picks/prospects: Agreed that drafts are always crapshoots. However, your odds are a lot higher in a deeper draft at finding a solid player who will contribute to the team. Let alone if you can pick up a solid prospect who has had some development in the AHL. That crapshoot gave us Gorges AND Pacioretty. Not saying that you will get that kind of quality back, you might, but you have a chance at getting some good players for a guy who will not be around much longer.

Mentor: We have Gorges, Cube, right now. Keep in mind there are always vet defenseman available on the FA market who can play a mentor role as a top 6 or even a 7th dman. Mentors are not hard to find.

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02-03-2013, 07:49 PM
  #37
Galchenyuk94
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Absolutely not, #1 dmen don't grow on trees

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02-03-2013, 07:51 PM
  #38
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We would be damn fools to not at least entertain offers.

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02-03-2013, 07:53 PM
  #39
disturbedraven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Absolutely not, #1 dmen don't grow on trees
I guess it's a good thing we got two of them then

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02-03-2013, 08:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
I guess it's a good thing we got two of them then
It's a great thing, it means for over half a game we have a great defenceman on the ice. Anaheim rode 2 #1s to a cup.

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02-03-2013, 08:04 PM
  #41
Galchenyuk94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
I guess it's a good thing we got two of them then
Do we? Or are we banking on one to develop into one... Lets not sell our chicken before the egg has hatched (or some expression along those lines)

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Old
02-03-2013, 08:07 PM
  #42
bigtimehockeyfan999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
I would like to open up a discussion on a subject that may be too sensitive for some,a subject that might illicit knee jerk reactions, but one which I think needs to be at least explored.

IF Markov continues his excellent play AND stays healthy, should we consider trading The General?

Here is my rationale for considering this move:

A) Even if we are in a playoff position this season, we are not likely going to be making the cup finals (let alone winning).

B) If Markov keeps his great season going, his stock is never going to be higher than it will be this trade deadline for a cup contending team. remember, he isn't getting younger

C) Subban and Diaz are likely considered our "future" offensive "go to" guys from the blue line, moving Markov opens up those roles for them to finish the season. This also gives these guys the knowledge over the summer that they will be expected to run the show, which will hopefully give them added motivation to come into camp in great shape and ready to go for next season

D) Giving Markov to a cup contender could net us a strong return since vetran offensive generals like Markov are an always sought commodity. Few years back we traded away Rivet for Gorges and a 1st that turned into Pac. Markov should be able to give us a solid return as well.

E) This is considered a very deep draft year. Snagging at least another 1st round pick could have many advantages

Just to be clear, I am a fan of Markov and I have no problems keeping him going forward as having a healthy Markov on our team makes us better short term. I just think the idea of moving Markov should be at least explored.

Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
well first of all..every point that diaz has accumulated has been a product of being andrei markov's partner on the PP...however...if we really **** the bed and appear to be basement bound again..then hell yes....tear it the **** down....i don't think we are basement bound though...i think we're going to be a top seed this year.

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02-03-2013, 08:12 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
I guess it's a good thing we got two of them then
Being #1D of a team that finishes 15th with a pathetic PP isn't quite the same as being #1D of a team that finishes first with the #1 PP in the league...

I'm also among those who think that his experience and mentoring is worth a whole lot more than what people think. We have many young D that would likely improve a lot more by having a Markov around than by having another D prospect.

Sure, if a team is massively overpaying you listen. But I think that trading a healthy Markov would be a major setback, because if he's truly over his injuries with the type of game he's playing he could still be valuable for us up to nearly 40, he's not relying on athletic abilities to dominate. You would need a DAMN good return to make it worth it.

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02-03-2013, 08:15 PM
  #44
Beendair Donedat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If we don't get a great offer, then just keep him.

A lot of folks who post here have English as their 2nd language, take it easy.

The team is more important than any one player. If we can improve ourselves by dealing him, that's exactly what we should do.
It was about as easy as you can put it... Wasn't rude and I provided an example. Sorry your thong is riding up.

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02-03-2013, 08:17 PM
  #45
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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Any player is available dependant on the return. Having said so, I don't think it will happen because mgmt is so focused on winning culture that they won't trade currents for futures.

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02-03-2013, 08:21 PM
  #46
bigtimehockeyfan999
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Any player is available dependant on the return. Having said so, I don't think it will happen because mgmt is so focused on winning culture that they won't trade currents for futures.
exactly...i believe we will be a winning team this year...if we did fall off the rails...than i wouldn't be against tearing it all down...but i believe we can win with this team and I think no matter where we pick next year we are going to be getting good players cause of timmins

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Old
02-03-2013, 08:22 PM
  #47
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Like it or not, Markov is the face of this organization. Would love to see him retire here and take a head office job following.

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Old
02-03-2013, 08:25 PM
  #48
lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
This ain't the Eller thread, take that discussion to the right thread. Markov and Eller are two different beasts, and two different scenarios. And no one said anything about trading Markov after 7-8 games. However, you do seem to be contradicting yourself with the whole "rebuild mode and let the young guys play" while defending keeping Markov who would be preventing a young guy from playing (and holding back more young guys from coming in to the organization).
You're a mod now? If not, keep the post in other thread comment to yourself.

Let me be more clear. Trading Markov is a terrible idea and any suggestion of it is an equivalent terrible idea. Having top tier players like Markov playing well against the opposition's best players allows the younger players to play against the 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines. When you have young players throw to wolves is what causes them to fail.

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Old
02-03-2013, 08:28 PM
  #49
yianik
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Markov stays a Hab. First, the warm and fuzzies. He loves the Habs and wants to be here forever, and we love and should be loyal to him and let him finish here. Next, he is 34 but playing like his Elite self. Even factoring some skill degradation over the next few years, Markov looks like he should at least be a top 2 D-man over the next 3-5 years. Besides his ability, yes , he can teach young pups a thing or two, namely heir apparent PK. As well, hes a riot .

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02-03-2013, 08:35 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Markov stays a Hab. First, the warm and fuzzies. He loves the Habs and wants to be here forever, and we love and should be loyal to him and let him finish here. Next, he is 34 but playing like his Elite self. Even factoring some skill degradation over the next few years, Markov looks like he should at least be a top 2 D-man over the next 3-5 years. Besides his ability, yes , he can teach young pups a thing or two, namely heir apparent PK. As well, hes a riot .
His ability to handle the media is enough to make him untouchable.

But if the Islanders offer Hamonic, Neiderriter, and this years 1st, that would
be tough to turn down.

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