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Old
02-04-2013, 12:22 AM
  #76
Led Zappa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorntonFan19 View Post
I'd like D'Agostini from the Blues. Hes fast and can snipe.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Galiardi-Gomez-D'Agostini
Desjardins-Handzus-Wingels
I assume you've traded Sheppard?

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:27 AM
  #77
WTFetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorntonFan19 View Post
I'd like D'Agostini from the Blues. Hes fast and can snipe.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Galiardi-Gomez-D'Agostini
Desjardins-Handzus-Wingels
I like Hall from the Oilers.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Hall-Couture-Havlat
Clowe-Gomez-Galiadi
Desjardins-Handzus-Burish


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Old
02-04-2013, 12:29 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Why would Handzus ever waive his NMC, especially to go to the Leafs?
I'm sure he'd rather play for the Leafs than sit in the press box - if it came down to that.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:29 AM
  #79
Led Zappa
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I'm sure he'd rather play for the Leafs than sit in the press box - if it came down to that.
Yeah, that's not happening either.

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:13 AM
  #80
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Setoguchi + Mitchell for a 2nd round pick and a defenseman.

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:17 AM
  #81
WTFetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Seto's either a scratch or a 4th liner tomorrow for the Wild, so I hear. Not doing well.
Mitchell goes to Minnesota to be with Setoguchi. Setoguchi gets traded back to the Sharks.

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Old
02-04-2013, 05:17 AM
  #82
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D'Agostini actually might not be the worst choice for Gomez's wing. I recall a Blues fan telling me that he needs a good playmaker to be effective. At the time I was thinking he's be a decent fit with Thornton, but he'd excel in soft lines with Gomez and Clowe (if we put Sheppard/Galiardi with Couture and Havlat).

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:47 AM
  #83
Alaskanice
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I've bandied this Setoguchi idea for a bit and I think there's some merit to it. He's in the Galiardi, Burish or Desjardins in his tenacity but not the defense. What he does bring is a quick shot. Gomer needs someone like that on his wing. That sounds like a good match.
If in fact this has any truth to it.

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Old
02-04-2013, 09:15 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskanice View Post
I've bandied this Setoguchi idea for a bit and I think there's some merit to it. He's in the Galiardi, Burish or Desjardins in his tenacity but not the defense. What he does bring is a quick shot. Gomer needs someone like that on his wing. That sounds like a good match.
If in fact this has any truth to it.
hes playing his way out of the nhl so unless he can play deceintly in San Jose, its possible but I dont think this move happens. The Org wasnt happy with Setos discipline while he was here...

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #85
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If Murray and or Clowe is being traded, its to a team in the Eastern Conf. My take would be either Philly, NYI or Tor(). commencing dream sequence

To Philly-
Murray + 3rd

To SJ-
Read + 7th



To NYI-
Clowe + Braun

To SJ -
Grabner + 2nd/2013 + prospect

Too big a shake-up I know but...
patty-jt-pavs
grabner-juicy-havlat
Read-gomez-Shep
burish-desi-wingles/tj

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:40 PM
  #86
SJeasy
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They need guys who can hang onto the puck on the bottom lines. Galliardi, Sheppard and Handzus can't do anything because they are being outskated in the o-zone. Wingels is an F1/sniper, he isn't getting shots because they can't hang onto the puck. Desi was lost as a winger but can hang onto the disk a bit. It isn't just the lack of scoring, it is the possession in the o-zone issue which is killing them making the top lines go 200 feet to get their chances. The whole setup is self fulfilling on not scoring as TM is getting the bottom lines off the ice as soon as they get their rare possession chances. The bottom lines are being severly outshot. Part of the issue is speed as it isn't hard for the opponents to outrace our bottom guys for the puck.

Sheppard looked OK, not great, with Couture. Havlat with Handzus gave that line someone who could hang with the puck. Gomez can hang a little but it looks like he has almost no chemistry with his linemates.

I don't think turning over players will solve the issue. One guy won't fix the problem. It has been the same issue for ages as to who impresses DW (speed and dangle aren't high on his agenda), what TM (or whatever coach) does with the personnel and the quality of the top lines compensating for the issue and disguising the magnitude of the problem. One guy who has the skills to drive possession is a guy the Sharks cast aside, Goc.

They also have an issue with transition from defense to offense which just pushes the skill issue on the bottom lines. The lack of emphasis on puck skills on the backend is a killer that contributes to the problem. (Don't emphasize playing it safe; aggressively work on outlets and accept risks.)

I hope the Sharks aren't getting more conservative with their defensive philosophy to address the issue as that would be a final nail in the coffin for any cup hopes that they might have.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:45 PM
  #87
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I got it!

Murray and Clowe for Gooch.

wouldn't that be something! haha.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:49 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Galliardi, Sheppard and Handzus can't do anything because they are being outskated in the o-zone. Wingels is an F1/sniper, he isn't getting shots because they can't hang onto the puck.
I agree with everything but those points. It didn't look like Galiardi or Sheppard had any issues with getting outskated, and Galiardi and Wingels both act as the F1 in games.
I also don't think Wingels isn't getting shots because of puck control. He isn't getting shots because so far this season, he hasn't been getting into scoring positions. Like you noted about the D, Wingels looks like he's playing it too safe. Instead of taking risks and going into scoring chances, he's just cycling along the boards with Handzus until they eventually turn it over.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I agree with everything but those points. It didn't look like Galiardi or Sheppard had any issues with getting outskated, and Galiardi and Wingels both act as the F1 in games.
I also don't think Wingels isn't getting shots because of puck control. He isn't getting shots because so far this season, he hasn't been getting into scoring positions. Like you noted about the D, Wingels looks like he's playing it too safe. Instead of taking risks and going into scoring chances, he's just cycling along the boards with Handzus until they eventually turn it over.
Galiardi is losing almost every board battle as well. I am not talking about being outskated for 200 feet, just the short distances on puck retrieval. Try to retrieve and move and they don't move before the defender has them tied up. Too long to get control. Wingels also fell off on his board work just before he was benched. It has been getting uglier.

Thanks for picking up on the issue of admixture with coaching philosophy on playing safe which includes the forwards.

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Old
02-04-2013, 01:24 PM
  #90
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Never saw wingels as a sniper, but he for sure isnt getting into the dirty areas, nor is he trying anything risky. you have to be willing to lose possession to create scoring oppurtunities, and as long as you are a quality back checker it shouldnt cause the team too many issues.

galiardi hasnt done well, he isnt playing within the system and he loses the puck all the time. hes just a step behind the play.

sheppard i disagree with, I think he is winning the puck and cycling it quick off of his stick. its really clowe where the play dissolves and causes him to have to back skate. but thats just general eye test, im guessing youve paid closer attention, easy.

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Old
02-04-2013, 02:08 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
Never saw wingels as a sniper, but he for sure isnt getting into the dirty areas, nor is he trying anything risky. you have to be willing to lose possession to create scoring oppurtunities, and as long as you are a quality back checker it shouldnt cause the team too many issues.

galiardi hasnt done well, he isnt playing within the system and he loses the puck all the time. hes just a step behind the play.

sheppard i disagree with, I think he is winning the puck and cycling it quick off of his stick. its really clowe where the play dissolves and causes him to have to back skate. but thats just general eye test, im guessing youve paid closer attention, easy.
Wingels isn't a great sniper and he isn't getting to the areas much. He is spending a lot of time being first in and trying to get it to Handzus, et al. He fell off with that job for the 2 games prior to his benching.

A lot of it is the chip game. The chips need to be precise and shallow enough and the winger quick enough to get clean wins. The Sharks as a team are playing too safe with the chips which means tie ups rather than clean wins as the most optimal result. One of the reasons the top lines are better is that they are better with chips and even more so when all the guys who can carry the line on the rare occasion are on the top 2 lines. The tie ups mean the F1 will have a hard time getting to the dirty areas. F1's are usually the ones who get the least number of points on a line. F3's are usually the prime snipers. And I agree that Wingels has been getting less opportunities than other guys who might play F1. An easy statistical way to check opportunities on snipers is shots/game. A third liner should be around 2/game if he isn't an F2. Wingels isn't close.

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Old
02-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #92
do0glas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Wingels isn't a great sniper and he isn't getting to the areas much. He is spending a lot of time being first in and trying to get it to Handzus, et al. He fell off with that job for the 2 games prior to his benching.

A lot of it is the chip game. The chips need to be precise and shallow enough and the winger quick enough to get clean wins. The Sharks as a team are playing too safe with the chips which means tie ups rather than clean wins as the most optimal result. One of the reasons the top lines are better is that they are better with chips and even more so when all the guys who can carry the line on the rare occasion are on the top 2 lines. The tie ups mean the F1 will have a hard time getting to the dirty areas. F1's are usually the ones who get the least number of points on a line. F3's are usually the prime snipers. And I agree that Wingels has been getting less opportunities than other guys who might play F1. An easy statistical way to check opportunities on snipers is shots/game. A third liner should be around 2/game if he isn't an F2. Wingels isn't close.
Its funny, because wingels was amazing at the possession game within the top 6, but when he is asked to really be the fulcrum he seems kind of lost.

It is a lot harder to be patient with them in a shortened season. but i wouldnt knee jerk with any trades regarding wingels, sheppard, or galiardi.

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02-04-2013, 02:44 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
Its funny, because wingels was amazing at the possession game within the top 6, but when he is asked to really be the fulcrum he seems kind of lost.

It is a lot harder to be patient with them in a shortened season. but i wouldnt knee jerk with any trades regarding wingels, sheppard, or galiardi.
I am not knee jerk on this. This goes on with everyone they get a hold of, call up or trade. I am more pointing the finger at coaching/team attitude regarding the lower lines. I may not like some of their acquisitions but these guys are not that bad for the most part when not playing for the Sharks. I think it is an underlying issue and I don't think a trade or trades will resolve it.

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:15 PM
  #94
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I guess people are hard up for trades when an Ott.sun link gets 4 pages.

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02-04-2013, 05:17 PM
  #95
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Ottawa Sun? Must be true! Know he's not a winger but hearing Rupp just got traded is interesting. Ferguson has supposedly been scouting them and it could mean a few very different things.

1) The Sharks were scouting Rupp and wanted to acquire him, but got beat out by the Wild. This would make me very wary of the direction the team is trying to go in. Speed is needed, as is bottom 6 scoring. Rupp does both like Wellwood body checks.
2) The Rangers knew they were going to trade Rupp and are interested in Handzus as a 3rd line C. Depending on what comes back, fine. Handzus has looked pretty good this year, and is a weapon in the shootout.
3) Sharks are trying to trade for someone actually worthwhile like Hagelin/Kreider/etc. Great, again depending on the price.
4) Sharks were scouting Rags opponents 2 games in a row. Who knows?
5) Ferguson was doing routine scouting and the teams aren't even in the opening stages of trade talks.

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Old
02-04-2013, 05:27 PM
  #96
WTFetus
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6) Sharks wanted to see what they let go in Ferriero.

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02-04-2013, 05:43 PM
  #97
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7) Sharks were scouting Nash to see if Couture+1st is worth it.

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Old
02-04-2013, 05:47 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Why would Handzus ever waive his NMC, especially to go to the Leafs?
Hmm yeah I guess he wouldn't waive it to go to the Leafs. Too bad we still have another year with Handzus. But yeah Clarke MacArthur would be good to have on our team. Maybe.....

To Maple Leafs:
James Sheppard
Douglas Murray
5th round pick in 2013


To Sharks:
Clarke MacArthur
6th round pick in 2013

Might be a bit much for MacArthur but again I'm just throwing it out there.

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Old
02-04-2013, 05:48 PM
  #99
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I doubt that would be enough for MacArthur.

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02-04-2013, 05:57 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Hmm yeah I guess he wouldn't waive it to go to the Leafs. Too bad we still have another year with Handzus. But yeah Clarke MacArthur would be good to have on our team. Maybe.....

To Maple Leafs:
James Sheppard
Douglas Murray
5th round pick in 2013


To Sharks:
Clarke MacArthur
6th round pick in 2013

Might be a bit much for MacArthur but again I'm just throwing it out there.
Handzus is a UFA after this season. Are you talking about this current year as being "one more year"?

Also, given that DW spent a 3rd on Sheppard, I doubt he's going to trade him away already, especially for an impending UFA like MacArthur.

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