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What is so wrong (in too many player's opinion) with dump and forecheck in drop in?

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:09 PM
  #1
beenhereandthere
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What is so wrong (in too many player's opinion) with dump and forecheck in drop in?

Drop in hockey = drop in.
Some guys really get peeved by it. However, most of the time when I do it, it works as far as not giving up the puck and often, leads into scoring chances.
In the pros, no ones seems to complain about it (players anyway) and the few times, I've had a lesson from a pro, I was thought that effective dump ins, either around the boards, on the goalie, or in the other corner, is good strategy.
Thoughts?
IMO, some guys are so sensitive to getting passes, that they can't think outside the box.

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02-01-2013, 06:18 PM
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Steelhead16
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I play defense most of the time and I do it all the time. If there is no pass available (because guys are just standing around) I will dump it in. And if someone cries about it I look right at him next time I do it. If people move and put in at least a little effort I will do my best to pass as much as possible

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02-01-2013, 06:36 PM
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beenhereandthere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
I play defense most of the time and I do it all the time. If there is no pass available (because guys are just standing around) I will dump it in. And if someone cries about it I look right at him next time I do it. If people move and put in at least a little effort I will do my best to pass as much as possible
What is just as nutty, is, granted it doesn't happen a lot though, is when I dump it in and the forwards, don't even bother to try to get it. The only time that's even acceptable, is if you have a goalie who's real quick and stops it and then his dman is right there to take it, other than that?

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02-01-2013, 10:23 PM
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This one guy was skating like a foot away from me and expected me to hit him the pass although there was a defender right in front of me. I got the puck through the defenders legs into the middle of the offensive zone, attempting to dump it.

The player begging for the pass gave me the hands up "why did you do that for?!".

It's hilarious because I passed it right to the top of the faceoff circles to an open man for a scoring chance. Our LW got past the defenseman into the slot and almost got me an assist.

Dump it in if you have to. More than likely unless your teammates suck a man will get there and get you a quality opportunity. The only guys who don't want to chase are lazy as heck. Often or not, that is how alot of goals are scored if the defenseman are stacked up on the blue line.

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02-02-2013, 12:38 AM
  #5
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It's drop in hockey... a time to work on things like stickhandling and passing. But hey, if it floats your boat, you can dump it and chase it.

And I'm pretty sure dump and chase is not thinking outside of the box either, it's the most basic thing you can do and takes no skill.

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02-02-2013, 01:18 AM
  #6
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In drop-in I don't think you should dump and chase too often. If there is one place where you can and should practice making crazy plays like trying to pass through 2 defenders it is in drop-in.

Now if people complain about dump and chase during actual games then those people have no idea what they are talking about. Dumping it is a great strategy if you have forwards who will go pressure the D-man who is retrieving the puck. As a D-man myself do you you have any idea how tough it is to have the puck dumped in behind you and have to turn your back on the play, retrieve the puck and make a good play while a forechecker is right on your ass? It's not easy and leads to a lot of turnovers. During beer league games I will try to pass it and hit the open man if possible but if a pass is too dangerous too make and I don't have a skating lane I'm dumping it in and trying to put it in a place where the D-man has to either eat the puck, make a dangerous pass in the middle or throw it blindly up the boards.

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02-02-2013, 03:26 AM
  #7
reecardo
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When playing up I will sometimes dump it just behind the defender, then chase it in myself, but I wouldn't intentionally make a dump & chase pass as a defender at a drop in. If the forwards were not skating, then I would skate it in myself.

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02-02-2013, 11:02 AM
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Because at pick up it's a really really really stupid thing to do. It's like asking, why do people get mad when you play the body and use heavy stick work at pick up?!!?!

No one should be going to pick up trying to win the session and grind in the corners with sweet dump and chase play, it's a waste of everyone's time and it makes the game a lot less fun when instead of trying to pass or keep up a certain pace of fun play you throw the puck aimlessly along the boards and grind it out.

Pick up sessions aren't games. Not everyone wants to go all out. That's why a majority of players or "too many" don't like dump ins and forechecks at pick up.

Are you the same guy who forechecks really hard on take outs after a goal is scored? Please. Understand the culture.

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02-03-2013, 12:56 AM
  #9
RandV
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Yeah I love the dump and chase in an actual game but in those you're doing 60-90 second shifts. Drop in on the other hand is a game of 3-5 minute shifts, which means you can't really be busting your ass but need to coast a lot. As much as I love anything hockey once I started playing in real games that's why I've never cared that much for drop in hockey. It's still fun but my game/cardio is much better suited to the high intensity quicker shifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
Are you the same guy who forechecks really hard on take outs after a goal is scored? Please. Understand the culture.
That is just one thing I'll never understand, I hate it when guys do that . The unofficial rule needs to be changed so that the scored on team gets up to the red line, not your blue line. Especially when you have lower level guys on the ice that aren't very good at breaking out and not to mention being drop in have no chemistry with their line mates.

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02-03-2013, 03:36 AM
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Lonny Bohonos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandV View Post
Yeah I love the dump and chase in an actual game but in those you're doing 60-90 second shifts. Drop in on the other hand is a game of 3-5 minute shifts, which means you can't really be busting your ass but need to coast a lot. As much as I love anything hockey once I started playing in real games that's why I've never cared that much for drop in hockey. It's still fun but my game/cardio is much better suited to the high intensity quicker shifts.



That is just one thing I'll never understand, I hate it when guys do that . The unofficial rule needs to be changed so that the scored on team gets up to the red line, not your blue line. Especially when you have lower level guys on the ice that aren't very good at breaking out and not to mention being drop in have no chemistry with their line mates.
Unoffical rule needs to be changed so theres a 5 second time limit to fish it out of your net and get it up to the blue line. Sucks when *******s lolly gag it up.

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02-03-2013, 10:29 AM
  #11
Jarick
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Usually at drop in people don't like to skate or get hit so instead of dumping the puck and another guy going hard up the far side to retrieve, you'll have guys trying to dangle the D-man or skate wide with the puck, etc.

Dump and chase in rec hockey though is great, provided you have guys with enough speed and common sense to go get the puck at the far boards.

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02-03-2013, 01:30 PM
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Dump and chase doesn't work well for most drop in and pick up 'games'. Almost no one wants to chase; they want to conserve energy for shifts that are usually longer and less intense than a game situation. If you are dumping it don't expect anyone to chase it except yourself.

Dumping the puck when you are getting tired so you can get off the ice, or when you are being pressured by a better player or several players without any real passing options is more common.

The unofficial rule with groups I have played with is after a goal the team scored on gets the puck until one of the members of the team breaks the red line.

Also, when the goalie smothers the puck the defensive team gets around 10 feet of free space and a few seconds to play the puck. Any hacking away at a puck that isn't completely covered but may have you hitting the goalie is frowned on. Regular goalies for pickup or drop in are hard enough to find without players doing things that will very likely piss them off (you already have the lack of defensive play for that) or injure them.

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02-03-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Usually at drop in people don't like to skate or get hit so instead of dumping the puck and another guy going hard up the far side to retrieve, you'll have guys trying to dangle the D-man or skate wide with the puck, etc.

Dump and chase in rec hockey though is great, provided you have guys with enough speed and common sense to go get the puck at the far boards.
In other words guys that say (by skating), "Look at me, I can stickhandle like Datsuk!", and lose it 1/2 the time.

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02-03-2013, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
Because at pick up it's a really really really stupid thing to do. It's like asking, why do people get mad when you play the body and use heavy stick work at pick up?!!?!

No one should be going to pick up trying to win the session and grind in the corners with sweet dump and chase play, it's a waste of everyone's time and it makes the game a lot less fun when instead of trying to pass or keep up a certain pace of fun play you throw the puck aimlessly along the boards and grind it out.

Pick up sessions aren't games. Not everyone wants to go all out. That's why a majority of players or "too many" don't like dump ins and forechecks at pick up.

Are you the same guy who forechecks really hard on take outs after a goal is scored? Please. Understand the culture.
Based on the teeth attached to this post, you seem like one of those that expects the puck all the time and passes as a last resort.

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02-03-2013, 07:15 PM
  #15
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Dump and chase is a team strategy for winning a game.

In this situation, are you really on a team and playing a game?

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02-03-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkEye View Post
Yes, pick up is an okay time to be selfish with the puck. So what?
maybe to a point but those other skaters on the ice who are skating up with the play who are wide open dont think its a good time to be selfish

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02-04-2013, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Based on the teeth attached to this post, you seem like one of those that expects the puck all the time and passes as a last resort.
I play goalie, so no. You'd be wrong. However, I do appreciate it quite a bit when people pass it back to me and I get a chance to practice saucing it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
In other words guys that say (by skating), "Look at me, I can stickhandle like Datsuk!", and lose it 1/2 the time.
You've missed the point here and taken a defensive stance because you are wrong on this topic.

You can still pass plenty at pick up without resorting to dump and chase. The best pick ups are the one where everyone can skate, stick handle, and generally play hockey, but also everyone distributes. No one is skating the puck up and down the ice on their own going 100 percent speed. Everyone is passing together, no one is shooting through other people, and absolutely no one is dumping it in and chasing it as a repeated tactic. It's when you have a 2 on 0 and the two players pass back and forth a bunch of times or try to score in a creative way. It's when, as someone mentioned earlier, when the goalie makes a save and the puck is basically covered you don't have some moron whacking away at the pad and trying to dig it out from a goalies five hole.

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02-04-2013, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Based on the teeth attached to this post, you seem like one of those that expects the puck all the time and passes as a last resort.
Where did you pull that assumption from? If anything, judging by his post, Aucoin sounds like he'd do the opposite. Don't get personal because he doesn't agree with you. Also, you asked for thoughts, you got one.

Remember, pickup hockey is about the lowest form of hockey available to adults. Stop comparing it to 'the pros'. I'm not sure what level your drop-in's are but around here a good amount of the guys are too slow, too inexperienced or both to know what to do in a dump-in situation. Gauge how the guys around you want to play. It's a team sport, not a you sport. Maybe suggest it on the bench instead of forcing it when they don't expect it and throwing them for a loop on the ice. Serious, non-sarcastic question: Do you ever even discuss it with anyone?

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02-04-2013, 11:57 AM
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Well you learn something new every day! I had no idea it was frowned upon, but after hearing some compelling reasons against it, I now understand.

Aucoin – I think your response was a bit harsh and yea, the OP took some offence. “Really, really, really stupid” just MAY have been harsh and pushed it over the top to a sincere question.

On another drop-in etiquette tip, I also always give the goalie plenty of room once he smothers the puck in pick-up.

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02-04-2013, 12:22 PM
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This is why I've stopped playing drop ins

Y'all players are too damn sensitive towards what others are doing. I've heard many a yellin' matches in pick up games because of players not liking what other players are doing.

Case in point, this thread. People are angry at other posters for dumping the puck and/or trying to deke throughout the whole team.

It's god damn drop-in, calm your **** and do whatever you want. Just be thankful you're not between the pipes.

Trust me, goaltending in drop-in isn't fun by any stretch.

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02-04-2013, 12:41 PM
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beenhereandthere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
I play goalie, so no. You'd be wrong. However, I do appreciate it quite a bit when people pass it back to me and I get a chance to practice saucing it out.



You've missed the point here and taken a defensive stance because you are wrong on this topic.

You can still pass plenty at pick up without resorting to dump and chase. The best pick ups are the one where everyone can skate, stick handle, and generally play hockey, but also everyone distributes. No one is skating the puck up and down the ice on their own going 100 percent speed. Everyone is passing together, no one is shooting through other people, and absolutely no one is dumping it in and chasing it as a repeated tactic. It's when you have a 2 on 0 and the two players pass back and forth a bunch of times or try to score in a creative way. It's when, as someone mentioned earlier, when the goalie makes a save and the puck is basically covered you don't have some moron whacking away at the pad and trying to dig it out from a goalies five hole.
I pass most of the time, but don't see anything wrong, with a dump in at drop in, for many reasons, particulary since it catches defensemen by surprise and most of the time, leads to a turnover.

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02-04-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kr580 View Post
Where did you pull that assumption from? If anything, judging by his post, Aucoin sounds like he'd do the opposite. Don't get personal because he doesn't agree with you. Also, you asked for thoughts, you got one.

Remember, pickup hockey is about the lowest form of hockey available to adults. Stop comparing it to 'the pros'. I'm not sure what level your drop-in's are but around here a good amount of the guys are
. Gauge how the guys around you want to play. It's a team sport, not a you sport. Maybe suggest it on the bench instead of forcing it when they don't expect it and throwing them for a loop on the ice. Serious, non-sarcastic question: Do you ever even discuss it with anyone?
Most adults have watched pro hockey games, since in 1/2 of the US, that's all you can watch. You can't tell me that most of adult players are not savy enough to know what to do and not realize the purpose of a dump in. I don't know about Santa Rosa, but in other places in the Bay Area I'm 90% sure guys are not too slow, to inexperienced or both.

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02-04-2013, 01:05 PM
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It depends on HOW you're doing drop-ins and pickups.

When my buddies and I do pickups/Dropins we usually play a good hour or more of a competitive hockey pickup game with limited rules. We usually try to get lines together if theres a bunch of us who play on teams and in leagues.

We usually set up the teams so there's equal teams when it comes to levels and skills. Last few times we've had one full 5 guy squad that play together in a league and another 5 guy squad that plays in a league and we match them up with each other. We then play checking around the boards, and we do incorporate d & c so we can get a feel for how to forecheck and how to break out of our zone so we can be really tight and quick during the season in the league. Because we play this way guys have a good competitive game and can go full speed and not worry about hurting the lower skilled players while at the same time having quick shifts and allows the lower skilled guys to get more ice time but since most are not used to skating for a long time they usually dont have that long of shifts.

If we're playing drop ins, we do have rules, especially if we dont have the guys we usually do, against dump and chase. If a guy dumps it in before going over the red line and nobody is chasing the puck by the time it hits the goal line, then the other team can't enter the zone. but if they dump it in after the red line then the team can enter the zone anytime to forecheck.

Basically, theres a time and place for it and it is a useful tool, it just depends on how the group as a whole feels about it. My recommendation is to communicate to the others how you feel about it and ask them what they think.

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02-04-2013, 01:08 PM
  #24
kr580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Most adults have watched pro hockey games, since in 1/2 of the US, that's all you can watch. You can't tell me that most of adult players are not savy enough to know what to do and not realize the purpose of a dump in. I don't know about Santa Rosa, but in other places in the Bay Area I'm 90% sure guys are not too slow, to inexperienced or both.
Watching pro's /= playing like pro's. I watch the NHL all the time and I still suck If the guys are skillful where you play then, like I said, talk to them about it ... at least let them know you like to dump and chase so they're not caught off guard. Doesn't matter if they realize the purpose of it. If they're expecting an easier going skate and you make them fight for it in the corner they won't be happy. You have to realize the norm in drop-ins is NOT dump-and-chase hockey, at least not from what I've personally seen.

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02-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #25
Hugh Madbrough
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dump and chase at pickup? you've got to be kidding.

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