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You're the Coach: Line changes

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:54 AM
  #1
RattleYourSabre
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You're the Coach: Line changes

Hypothetically speaking, you're the coach of the Buffalo Sabres.

How do you adjust the lines to give us the best chance moving forward? Do you keep them the same?

Or do you make some tough decisions?

VHP has been our workhorse line. Is it worth taking one of those three off of that line and moving them down to the second to see if they can get something going?

Perhaps something like (By the way, I'm not sold on doing this either, I'm posting it as a conversation point. Breaking up VHP would possibly destroy any offensive production we've managed to get):

Vanek - Hodgson - Stafford - Stafford has been horrendous, but maybe if he plays with our only real center (at the moment, I think we have good prospects) and our top producing forward he can get some kind of game going.

Pominville - Grigorenko - Ott - Grigs has struggled so far to get going, but he's not going to get much going on poor lines. I thought he had much better moments versus Florida while on the second line than he's had previously, but he couldn't finish. Stafford hasn't helped him much. Maybe having Pominville with him would give him a little juice and a leader on the line. I'm not sure why Stafford wears the "A" to be honest... I've seen very little on the ice and very little in the leadership department from him.

Foligno - Ennis - Ellis - Not a big fan of this line, but Foligno effort has been solid the last few games. He's definitely playing better. Ennis dropping a line could help him out, or hurt him, I have no idea. Ellis... Well because I didn't know who else to put here.

Scott/Gerbe - Hecht - McCormick - Not much to say here.

Then the talk about defensive pairings has to happen as well.

I'm not sure that line changes or shuffling is the major issue on this team, but barring any conversation about some real answers that most of us don't think will happen, this seems like a relevant conversation to have...

Really, I'm just trying to think of ways that this team could improve so my brain doesn't explode. Although changing the lines could potentially make us worse.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:58 AM
  #2
Duddy
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As a coach you don't break up one of the best lines in the league, to hope that sparks the others.

VHP
mix and mingle the rest.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:05 AM
  #3
Zip15
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VHP

Obvious.

Grigorenko-Ennis-Stafford

Soft minutes, high offensive-zone starts. Then watch everyone magically start producing again, Lindy, you idiot.

Foligno-Hecht-Ott

Ott takes the faceoffs. Your checking line.

Gerbe-Cody/Ellis-Kaleta (when healthy, obviously)

Another checking line/4th line.

I think that's the best way to put together these mismatched parts. Grigs looks overwhelmed right now, so they need to break him in slowly on the wing. Plenty of excellent centers started there and slowly worked their way into the middle.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:13 AM
  #4
RattleYourSabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duddy View Post
As a coach you don't break up one of the best lines in the league, to hope that sparks the others.

VHP
mix and mingle the rest.
I don't necessarily disagree with this logic. So take what I'm about to say as "The Devil's Advocate" approach:

Couldn't it be argued that the three guys who are playing PPG hockey right now are good enough to succeed apart from another? Pominville is a solid hockey player who's skills may help provide Grigorenko much needed leadership. Vanek/Hodgson could likely play on the first line without missing Pominville TOO much due to their chemistry with one another. Sure, Pommer would be missed a bit on that first line. He's too good not to miss.

I wouldn't pull Hodgson away from Vanek. He's still young, too, and needs Vanek's play for confidence reasons. Pommer, though, is an established vet who has skills. I think he could go down and help a bit.

Again, I'm not sure I'd break up VHP, either. Just trying to carry a discussion.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:16 AM
  #5
ManuelCalavera
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If I'm Ruff, and I want to improve the team, I commit Harikiri.

My replacement can then juggle the lines:

Pominville-Hodgson-Vanek
Stafford-Grigorenko-Foligno
Ott-Ennis-Hecht
Ellis-Porter-Gerbe

Maybe Porter can win a faceoff?


Last edited by ManuelCalavera: 02-04-2013 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Accursed, common mispelling.
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Old
02-04-2013, 08:18 AM
  #6
Deevo
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VHP
Ennis-Grigs-Stafford
Foligno-Hecht-Ott
Gerbe-McCormick-Kaleta
Scott
Ellis

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:18 AM
  #7
struckbyaparkedcar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
VHP

Obvious.

Grigorenko-Ennis-Stafford

Soft minutes, high offensive-zone starts. Then watch everyone magically start producing again, Lindy, you idiot.

Foligno-Hecht-Ott

Ott takes the faceoffs. Your checking line.

Gerbe-Cody/Ellis-Kaleta (when healthy, obviously)

Another checking line/4th line.

I think that's the best way to put together these mismatched parts. Grigs looks overwhelmed right now, so they need to break him in slowly on the wing. Plenty of excellent centers started there and slowly worked their way into the middle.
Yup. Trying to balance offense and defense across the lineup only works if you trust your defensive players to score. Jochen Hecht isn't setting up the Foligno-Ennis combination for anything.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:43 AM
  #8
RazielMoshman
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I'll give it a go, what the hell.

V-H-P - Hottest line in the league, or one of. Plus our only good players
Ott-Grigorenko-Stafford - Ott can help Grig with the faceoffs and gives him a good role model. Stafford CAN score, his just maddaningly inconsistent.
Foligno-Ennis-Kaleta - Give them hard minutes with a good D pairing to give them a chance to get some opporunities.
Scott/Gerbe-Hecht-Cody/Ellis - Shutdown and antagonise role. Hecht is good as a defensive forward so this should play to his strengths.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:44 AM
  #9
RazielMoshman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManuelCalavera View Post
If I'm Ruff, and I want to improve the team, I commit Harikari.

My replacement can then juggle the lines:

Pominville-Hodgson-Vanek
Stafford-Grigorenko-Foligno
Ott-Ennis-Hecht
Ellis-Porter-Gerbe

Maybe Porter can win a faceoff?
Love the name dude. And the first line. Lmao.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:55 AM
  #10
Jame
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VHP - suggesting any changes to this line is hillarious

Foligno-Ott-Hecht - checking line, D zone draws, etc

Ennis-Grigs-Staff - keeps ennis/staff together... gets ennis out of the middle... don't use on faceoffs too often... lol. No dzone draws... line change for matchups

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:56 AM
  #11
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
VHP

Obvious.

Grigorenko-Ennis-Stafford

Soft minutes, high offensive-zone starts. Then watch everyone magically start producing again, Lindy, you idiot.

Foligno-Hecht-Ott

Ott takes the faceoffs. Your checking line.

Gerbe-Cody/Ellis-Kaleta (when healthy, obviously)

Another checking line/4th line.

I think that's the best way to put together these mismatched parts. Grigs looks overwhelmed right now, so they need to break him in slowly on the wing. Plenty of excellent centers started there and slowly worked their way into the middle.
pretty much the same... i'd keep Grigs at center, and move Ennis back to LW.

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Old
02-04-2013, 09:20 AM
  #12
tsujimoto74
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VHP
-Because they don't need to be messed with because they don't suck

Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford
-Ennis and Grigorenko both have been playing with sub-par talent so far this year; maybe they can help each other and Staff get on the score sheet. Take soft offensive minutes.

Foligno-Hecht-Ott
-Ott takes the draws. This line takes a lot of d-zone starts and forechecks the living daylights out of everything, and maybe puts in some ugly goals now and then.

Gerbe/Scott-McCormick-Kaleta
-4th liners play on the 4th line

Maybe flip Ott and Stafford if Staff doesn't get it going soon, or Ennis/Grigs need more grit or more help on faceoffs.

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Old
02-04-2013, 09:37 AM
  #13
DixonWard15
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I would just give VHP more ice time,that would be an improvement in itself

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02-04-2013, 09:40 AM
  #14
Reddawg
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Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville

Ennis - Grigorenko - Gerbe

Foligno - Ott - Stafford

Scott - McCormick - Hecht

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Old
02-04-2013, 09:45 AM
  #15
Zip15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville

Ennis - Grigorenko - Gerbe

Foligno - Ott - Stafford

Scott - McCormick - Hecht
I don't see those lines helping much. Foligno and Ott aren't going to get Stafford going, and Gerbe will hurt that 2nd line's offense. It seems like you put names in a hopper after the 1st line.

Which probably means this is how we'll start the game tomorrow night.

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Old
02-04-2013, 09:46 AM
  #16
Fire Lindy
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As has been said

VHP
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford
Ott-Hecht-Foligno
4th liners

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Old
02-04-2013, 09:48 AM
  #17
Myllz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Lindy View Post
As has been said

VHP
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford
Ott-Hecht-Foligno
4th liners
Yup.

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:14 AM
  #18
RattleYourSabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
VHP - suggesting any changes to this line is hillarious
Again: Why?

I am playing devil's advocate here, as I am pretty afraid to see what happens to our offense if we break VHP up... But how much worse could things get? Our team, at the moment, stinks.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Ruff was once a solid coach, and probably still is. But his time here is up due to becoming stagnant. And changing lines probably won't fix anything. So changing VHP is probably a horrendous idea.

But, for conversations sake, I'm curious why the topic seems so taboo.

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:20 AM
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Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RattleYourSabre View Post
Again: Why?

I am playing devil's advocate here, as I am pretty afraid to see what happens to our offense if we break VHP up... But how much worse could things get? Our team, at the moment, stinks.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Ruff was once a solid coach, and probably still is. But his time here is up due to becoming stagnant. And changing lines probably won't fix anything. So changing VHP is probably a horrendous idea.

But, for conversations sake, I'm curious why the topic seems so taboo.
We've spent years trying to create the chemistry and mix of talent necessary to ice a real #1 line... breaking that up, because everything else sucks... is a ridiculous proposition.

You don't mess with the one good thing, just because there are a dozen other problems.

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #20
Stop Winnin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RattleYourSabre View Post
Again: Why?

I am playing devil's advocate here, as I am pretty afraid to see what happens to our offense if we break VHP up... But how much worse could things get? Our team, at the moment, stinks.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Ruff was once a solid coach, and probably still is. But his time here is up due to becoming stagnant. And changing lines probably won't fix anything. So changing VHP is probably a horrendous idea.

But, for conversations sake, I'm curious why the topic seems so taboo.
Because it's arguably the best line in the NHL??

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:21 AM
  #21
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Because it's arguably the best line in the NHL??
and to add...
you especially don't mess with it when you are grooming a young talent in a specific role (hodgson), and that young talent clearly has chemistry with his linemates

have we learned nothing from letting Tallinder go?

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Old
02-04-2013, 10:39 AM
  #22
Reddawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
have we learned nothing from letting Tallinder go?
Isn't that already pretty clear?

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Old
02-04-2013, 11:27 AM
  #23
RattleYourSabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
We've spent years trying to create the chemistry and mix of talent necessary to ice a real #1 line... breaking that up, because everything else sucks... is a ridiculous proposition.

You don't mess with the one good thing, just because there are a dozen other problems.
Good points. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Because it's arguably the best line in the NHL??
I'm not sure this is a reason for why breaking them up couldn't help the rest of the team. I think Jame's response is pretty good, though. Chemistry is a tremendously underrated aspect of sports. I don't necessarily agree that the suggestion of breaking them up is ridiculous. But I do agree that when a line has gelled, its probably easier to keep them together and add/change other lines than to try to reinvent the entire wheel.

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Old
02-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #24
sabresEH
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Vanek - Hodg - Ott
Hecht - Grigs - Pomms
Foligno - Ennis - Stafford
Gerbe - Mcc - Scott/Ellis

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Old
02-04-2013, 01:14 PM
  #25
Grinder44
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Vanek - Hodgson - Poms
Vanek - Ennis - Foligno
Vanek - Grigs - Ott
Vanek - McCormick- Scott

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