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OT: PED's in Hockey

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:11 AM
  #51
Ubercron9000
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
And if some guy manages to develop some new PED and shatters all of Gretzky's records you're cool with this?

As for it not being fair... of course PEDs aren't fair and of course its cheating. Some guys use and some guys don't. And some guys have better drugs... There's nothing fair about this.
It would be pretty awesome to see someone break gretzky's records. Was it not great when mcguire beat home run record? Its only because they found out he was doping that they cried that it wasn't fair.

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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
You say control, test and ban the cheaters. I say let them 'cheat'. If everyone is cheating, atleast it's fair. Is sleeping in an elevation chamber cheating? It increases red blood cells. But then so does EPO which is illegal. It's their bodies, let them do what they want. We won't agree on the subject anyways..
Thats the problem a lot of them are cheating and the public is so naive to think it is only a few individuals. All sports have this problem! I just find it hilarious that people who probably never even been good at sports or don't understand the mentality of trying to be the best you can be even through scientific ways will cry that it is cheating.

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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Which is why people use them smartly and cycle them. Nobody stays on them all year except pro bodybuilders, and even they go through cycles of high dosages followed by very low dosages. I suspect athletes cycle during the playoffs and during the off season training, and simply use stims during the season.

Testosterone isn't more dangerous then alcohol or tobacco. You can even die by taking too much advil. There is a smart way to use (not abuse) PEDs and I suspect many athletes are even doing it under doctor supervision.
People with this imagined high morality thinking that it is not ok. Yet you said it yourself everything has harmful effects. Most smart atheletes go see a doctor or someone that monitors them and make sure everything is alright.

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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
I'm just saying that pro athletes have good nutrition habits, and the average North American has average to bad eating habits, who is doing more damage to their body?

I won't shed a tear for the athletes health, just like I won't get angry when I see an overweight man eating french fries. They are doing it to themselves.

Lying to kids and it not being fair for the athletes that don't juice are arguments that make me say control, test and ban. But it's just not going to happen, which is why I say level the playing field.
Very good point

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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
This is just too simple. You cannot think like that, at the end of the day we all love sports and we just need to make it better.

Its not fair for people who dream of playing in this league...
Ask me what's my biggest dream ? Well NHL hockey for sure. If I was in the AHL would I do ANYTHING to get to the next level ? Sure as hell.
It's just about making it fair for every one and to make it more ''morally acceptable'' nothing else.
I wouldn't be surprised if most enforcers use PED's and they are all 4th liners. Justbecause you may take PED's doesn't mean you will be a 1st line player and break records. Some might take it and be an ahler all their lives. Some might take them and play beer league all their lives(which I've seen). Mind you I'm a decent hockey player and I've played with guys who take steroids and I'm better than them.


The only real good reason atheletes shouldn't take PED's are for influence on kids. But in the end those kids when growing up and make it to the bigs will have to make a choice. unfortunately there will always be PED's that cannot be detected and like a previous poster quoted you'd be pretty dumb to get caught doping.

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02-04-2013, 12:20 AM
  #52
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Testosterone therapy is pretty mainstream stuff now in medicine.

I personally would be shocked if a significant portion of players weren't managing their testosterone levels in one way or another.

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02-04-2013, 12:21 AM
  #53
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Justifying the use of PED's?

Why don't we just go all out and give them elephant roids and have them grow tails too. As long as they are monitored by the ''team doctor'', all is perfect... Besides, nobody really cares what happens to them once their careers are done. It's not cheating after all, it's just treating the human body like a race car... Jack it up with the best science that this world has to give you and hope it doesn't crash and burn.


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02-04-2013, 12:30 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Ubercron9000 View Post
It would be pretty awesome to see someone break gretzky's records. Was it not great when mcguire beat home run record? Its only because they found out he was doping that they cried that it wasn't fair..
The whole reason they investigated steroids was because the records started to fall. Before that nobody cared. Once the records started falling though? Different story... Same thing would happen in hockey. Right now nobody cares but if records start falling?

And it's been disastrous for baseball. Sure there was a period where it was great but now baseball has no idea what to do with all these fake legends of the game. Clemens and Bonds not in the HOF? Unthinkable but there they sit. An entire generation of ballplayers stained with the stigma of steroids.

Not good man.

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02-04-2013, 12:32 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Justifying the use of PED's?

Why don't we just go all out and give them elephant roids and have them grow tails too. As long as they are monitored by the ''team doctor'', all is perfect... Besides, nobody really cares what happens to them once their careers are done. It's not cheating after all, it's just treating the human body like a race car... Jack it up with the best science that this world has to give you and hope it doesn't crash and burn.

Sadly this is the opinion of too many people who know jack **** on performance enhancers

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02-04-2013, 12:37 AM
  #56
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The whole reason they investigated steroids was because the records started to fall. Before that nobody cared. Once the records started falling though? Different story... Same thing would happen in hockey. Right now nobody cares but if records start falling?

And it's been disastrous for baseball. Sure there was a period where it was great but now baseball has no idea what to do with all these fake legends of the game. Clemens and Bonds not in the HOF? Unthinkable but there they sit. An entire generation of ballplayers stained with the stigma of steroids.

Not good man.
Can't see records falling. Different era and the dmen are juicing too. Hckey isn't an individual sport like baseball. The only way records will fall is when they perfect gene alteration on humans.

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02-04-2013, 12:40 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Sadly this is the opinion of too many people who know jack **** on performance enhancers
I'll let you look at this pic. Hopefully it sinks in.


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02-04-2013, 12:53 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
You say control, test and ban the cheaters. I say let them 'cheat'. If everyone is cheating, atleast it's fair. Is sleeping in an elevation chamber cheating? It increases red blood cells. But then so does EPO which is illegal. It's their bodies, let them do what they want. We won't agree on the subject anyways..
How is that fair to the guy who doesn't want to use them? Whatever his reasons are. He'd be at a disadvantage because he chooses not to use them. Where do you draw the line, can you imagine the image it would give hockey?

It's crazy to even entertain the idea imo.

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02-04-2013, 01:05 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I'll let you look at this pic. Hopefully it sinks in.

Are you trying to teach me something about nutrition? Major fail by posting the food pyramid, it's wrong. Carbohydrates are the only macronutrient that isn't essential to the human body. They have their place as an energy source for people that do physical exertion, but are poison to the average north american and cause all sorts of diseases. And the government says fill up mostly on grains and starches... the same government that says PEDs are dangerous when not one scientific study can back it up.

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02-04-2013, 01:08 AM
  #60
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How is that fair to the guy who doesn't want to use them? Whatever his reasons are. He'd be at a disadvantage because he chooses not to use them. Where do you draw the line, can you imagine the image it would give hockey?

It's crazy to even entertain the idea imo.
I agree. I mentionned that lying to kids and the unfairness to the clean athletes makes me want to keep fighting the fight, but there is no realistic way to accomplish that. Kids that reach a certain level will learn the truth eventually and clean athletes will have to make a choice. It's unfortunate but it's in their competitive nature.

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02-04-2013, 01:17 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Are you trying to teach me something about nutrition? Major fail by posting the food pyramid, it's wrong. Carbohydrates are the only macronutrient that isn't essential to the human body. They have their place as an energy source for people that do physical exertion, but are poison to the average north american and cause all sorts of diseases. And the government says fill up mostly on grains and starches... the same government that says PEDs are dangerous when not one scientific study can back it up.
We are talking about athletes here, not over weight north americans. If they choose to load up on starches that's their issue

I could also care less if an athlete eats 5 pounds of meat a day or chooses to be a vegan. We are not debating nutrition.

But if you can't see how looking outside the food pyramid to enhance performance is a bad thing than keep staring at the picture until you get it.

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02-04-2013, 01:28 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
We are talking about athletes here, not over weight north americans. If they choose to load up on starches that's their issue

I could also care less if an athlete eats 5 pounds of meat a day or chooses to be a vegan. We are not debating nutrition.

But if you can't see how looking outside the food pyramid to enhance performance is a bad thing than keep staring at the picture until you get it.
That's right, I don't believe performance enhancers are morally wrong. Porn stars use liquid viagra to last longer, fighter pilots use amphetamines to focus, students take aderall to study hard and get more work done, musicians take beta blockers to calm the nerves when performing... yet we focus on athletes for some reason

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02-04-2013, 07:52 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Are you trying to teach me something about nutrition? Major fail by posting the food pyramid, it's wrong. Carbohydrates are the only macronutrient that isn't essential to the human body. They have their place as an energy source for people that do physical exertion, but are poison to the average north american and cause all sorts of diseases. And the government says fill up mostly on grains and starches... the same government that says PEDs are dangerous when not one scientific study can back it up.
Honest question, is this because studies have proven otherwise, or is there a lack of research?

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02-04-2013, 08:27 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
That's right, I don't believe performance enhancers are morally wrong. Porn stars use liquid viagra to last longer, fighter pilots use amphetamines to focus, students take aderall to study hard and get more work done, musicians take beta blockers to calm the nerves when performing... yet we focus on athletes for some reason
As an aside, I'm totally unconvinced aderall and ritalin actually help most people out, aside from the placebo effect, which you can get just as well from homeopathy.

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02-04-2013, 09:29 AM
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Honest question, is this because studies have proven otherwise, or is there a lack of research?
There is some lack of research, but that I know of there has been two studies that show that testosterone is not harmful on healthy adult males.

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02-04-2013, 09:40 AM
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As an aside, I'm totally unconvinced aderall and ritalin actually help most people out, aside from the placebo effect, which you can get just as well from homeopathy.
Doctors precribe it, and aderall contains amphetamines so I doubt there is no effect, I have also known students who take methamphetamines to increase productivity

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02-04-2013, 09:48 AM
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Honest question: After having read Simmons' article, should I start thinking about a certain player having recovered way sooner than expected from a surgery as a question mark, just as how he does with Ray Lewis' torn biceps?


Last edited by PhysicX: 02-04-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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02-04-2013, 09:53 AM
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Honest question: After having read Simmons' article, should I start thinking about a certain player having recovered way sooner than expected from an appendectomy as a question mark, just as how he does with Ray Lewis' torn biceps?
Lets not make any accusations.

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02-04-2013, 09:58 AM
  #69
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Lets not make any accusations.
Well, isn't that what the media (and the article of Simmons) is doing with Ray Lewis? Sure, it does look superhuman, but it certainly isn't the sole case...

By the way, I changed one word in the question.

In the Bill Simmons article.
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I believe we need to fix this disconnect between our private conversations and our public ones. Cheating in professional sports is an epidemic. Wondering about the reasons behind a dramatically improved performance, or a dramatically fast recovery time, shouldn't be considered off-limits for media members. We shouldn't feel like ******** bringing this stuff up. It's part of sports.

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02-04-2013, 10:01 AM
  #70
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Honest question: After having read Simmons' article, should I start thinking about a certain player having recovered way sooner than expected from a surgery as a question mark, just as how he does with Ray Lewis' torn biceps?
I googled it and all I can find was that it depends on the type of surgery.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5110336AAV9oZ0

looks like he may have had Laproscopic surgery. which they guy said should take a couple of days.

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02-04-2013, 10:01 AM
  #71
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Lets not make any accusations.
Interesting choice of word for someone who believes in getting rid of the stigma of ped's in sports.

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02-04-2013, 10:10 AM
  #72
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Interesting choice of word for someone who believes in getting rid of the stigma of ped's in sports.
PED's are banned as of right now, so lets not accuse certain players that are suspect of doping and breaking the rules. For all we know he is a genetic freak.

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02-04-2013, 10:13 AM
  #73
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I googled it and all I can find was that it depends on the type of surgery.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5110336AAV9oZ0

looks like he may have had Laproscopic surgery. which they guy said should take a couple of days.
Good stuff! Started to worry just a little bit there.

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02-04-2013, 10:19 AM
  #74
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PED's are banned as of right now, so lets not accuse certain players that are suspect of doping and breaking the rules. For all we know he is a genetic freak.
And I did not accuse him. It's just a very tough subject, and I can't quite seem to put in words some of my worries and questions surrounding it (PEDs).

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02-04-2013, 10:19 AM
  #75
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Well, isn't that what the media (and the article of Simmons) is doing with Ray Lewis? Sure, it does look superhuman, but it certainly isn't the sole case...

By the way, I changed one word in the question.

In the Bill Simmons article.
It goes further than that with Ray Lewis... I might just be making assumptions here... But the guy clearly looks like he's on Cheque drops for big games. I mean...Crying during the anthem? Jesus.. It's either that or he's on Cocaine.

He has looked younger and had alot more vigor in those playoff games too... Maybe you it was just about stepping it up for the playoffs I don't know... But the question need's to be asked.

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