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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XVII

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Old
02-04-2013, 01:46 AM
  #601
Halpysback
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eh, obviously it's a best case scenario.

But if purge all our overpaid grinders and go into the offseason with 30 mil cap space we'd have a pretty good chance at getting quite a few.

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02-04-2013, 01:53 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Detroit every year seems to have their fans thinking, omg detroit everyone wants to come here. Then Detroit low balls every UFA and they don't get anyone.
Except for that time they signed a #1 dman and then won the cup.

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02-04-2013, 01:54 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
eh, obviously it's a best case scenario.

But if purge all our overpaid grinders and go into the offseason with 30 mil cap space we'd have a pretty good chance at getting quite a few.

I agree with you that we have pieces to build a Cup contending team.

What the organization lacks is the drive and know-how to do it. It sucks.

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02-04-2013, 02:14 AM
  #604
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Except for that time they signed a #1 dman and then won the cup.
Michigan boy. Either way, its widely known they offered Suter and Parise very low offers multiple times.

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02-04-2013, 02:30 AM
  #605
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Another Canucks fan here. I don't mean to be an antagonist and I do not intend on pushing Lou onto you guys. If you don't want him that's ok. I just curious reading about some of you wanting to tank, isn't it that all non playoff teams go into a draft lottery to find the order they pick, seems it would be better to try and just fail then just straight give up no?

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02-04-2013, 02:35 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Except for that time they signed a #1 dman and then won the cup.
I am sure Detroit fans would trade in the Stanley Cup to win at overpaying UFAs.

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02-04-2013, 05:44 AM
  #607
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Michigan boy. Either way, its widely known they offered Suter and Parise very low offers multiple times.
For Parise yes.. but I think they only made him one offer.

For Suter they started at 13yr/80 mil total according to Khan, Wings beat writer. He's usually very reliable.

For other FAs they have certainly made low offers.. including making Hossa that offer that had him at 4 mil per year cap.

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02-04-2013, 07:37 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Another Canucks fan here. I don't mean to be an antagonist and I do not intend on pushing Lou onto you guys. If you don't want him that's ok. I just curious reading about some of you wanting to tank, isn't it that all non playoff teams go into a draft lottery to find the order they pick, seems it would be better to try and just fail then just straight give up no?
All the non playoff teams get put in the lottery, same as it was before (same odds for winning the lottery). The change is that now, instead of winning the lottery = move up 4 spots, now winning the lottery = get 1st overall pick.

So the best non-playoff team has a theoretical chance of 1st overall, but it's a really, really poor chance. That's still a bad place to be organizationally (either be in or out, don't just barely miss).

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02-04-2013, 07:50 AM
  #609
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Canucks fan here. Luongo has played lights out for us this year, could easily be 4-0 right now if it weren't for the god damn shootout! Anyway I'm not a fan of trading him at this point due to how good he's been playing. But if we were to deal Luongo a return we'd be looking for is Laich+Johanssen+Neuvirth for Lu+Raymond/Higgins. Would you guys be willing to do a deal like that? If not what's the most you'd offer for Luongo? Thanks in advance.
I'd take it in a heartbeat. You get out from under Laich's overpayment and get rid of Mojo who is losing value by the day. Neuvy is nothing more then a glorified backup. You have yourself a deal sir!

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02-04-2013, 08:07 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Luongo may not be the answer to all our problems but he's in another league than Neuvirth and Holtby both career wise and right now. Anyone who doesn't think he'd be a massive upgrade on either is deluding themselves.

.944/1.46 and nucks skaters are playing almost as bad as ours.
vancouver fans wanted to run the guy out of town because of the soft goals and poor playoff play. .916 isnt a good playoff save%. neuvirth's is .912 for comparison.
Luongo was benched last year in the playoffs for Schneinder. He was was bad. The year before he was yanked FOUR times and benched for a 5th game.

Is this forgotten?

The Canucks want to trade him even with his current hotness to keep a young goalie with Neuvy numbers.

If you want him, thats fine. That doesnt change the fact that last season he was on the bench in the playoffs because he sucked and was replaced by a goalie in the Holtby vein. Now his team who would be left with a Holtby/Neuvirth like young goalie wants him gone. So, thinking Holtby and/or Neuvirth is a better option that Luongo and his contract only mirrors what Vancouver seems to think

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02-04-2013, 10:23 AM
  #611
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Luongo

Makes sense ONLY IN THAT the Goalie is the one single position trade that can uniformally change the dynamics of a team.

When you have a goalie that everyone believes in, the entire team seems to play better in front of him. Very akin to a true #1D or #1C (to a lesser extent, even).

Neuvy and Holtby *may* end up as Goalies like that. Currently, Luongo is one. Yes, we can laud his playoff accomplishments to some degree...but you can do that to almost any goalie, past and present (not named Roy).

If you can get him for cheap (MaJo and Neuvirth and a pick), then you need to seriously seriously think about doing it. Not just for this season, but for the next few. For a team that is "supposed" to be going for it now, this 2 headed youth experiment in G is hopeful/foolhardy at best...colossal fail at worst.

Perhaps this team is playing like bunk in front of these G's because they have no faith in these G's right now??

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02-04-2013, 10:26 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
vancouver fans wanted to run the guy out of town because of the soft goals and poor playoff play. .916 isnt a good playoff save%. neuvirth's is .912 for comparison.
Luongo was benched last year in the playoffs for Schneinder. He was was bad. The year before he was yanked FOUR times and benched for a 5th game.

Is this forgotten?

The Canucks want to trade him even with his current hotness to keep a young goalie with Neuvy numbers.

If you want him, thats fine. That doesnt change the fact that last season he was on the bench in the playoffs because he sucked and was replaced by a goalie in the Holtby vein. Now his team who would be left with a Holtby/Neuvirth like young goalie wants him gone. So, thinking Holtby and/or Neuvirth is a better option that Luongo and his contract only mirrors what Vancouver seems to think
Tell you what, if we rode Luongo to even a simple 3rd round appearance....would a single Caps fan give a damn about his past history? He'd be moving from the hockey hotseat in Vancouver to a city with little expectations and where Hockey is the #2/3 sport (typically). Might just be that a change of scenery and less scrutiny makes him relax and play better.

Luongo's contract is the only thing that makes this scary, not his play. He'd be an immediate and significant upgrade over our current keepers.

And you're making a rather large and probably inaccurate assumption about Vancouver and what they think. They've had a young stud goalie waiting in the wings for a long long time. I'm guessing if you offered them Holtby/Neuvirth instead of Luongo/Schneider, they would laugh hysterically.

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02-04-2013, 10:36 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Tell you what, if we rode Luongo to even a simple 3rd round appearance....would a single Caps fan give a damn about his past history?.
You are absolutely correct CCF. In fact that would also have been true about Jose Theodore. But Theodore's past history indicated future performance.

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02-04-2013, 10:38 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Tell you what, if we rode Luongo to even a simple 3rd round appearance....would a single Caps fan give a damn about his past history? He'd be moving from the hockey hotseat in Vancouver to a city with little expectations and where Hockey is the #2/3 sport (typically). Might just be that a change of scenery and less scrutiny makes him relax and play better.

Luongo's contract is the only thing that makes this scary, not his play. He'd be an immediate and significant upgrade over our current keepers.
Agreed. Luongo is massively underrated by hockey fans in general, and especially those in Vancouver. He did get them to a SCF. I'd take him in a second if he were only signed for 4-5 more years, assuming the price wouldn't be too debilitating.

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02-04-2013, 10:40 AM
  #615
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
You are absolutely correct CCF. In fact that would also have been true about Jose Theodore. But Theodore's past history indicated future performance.
Not sure that is a fair comparison. Theodore is more like Giguere, to me. Luongo, for all of this warts, has carried teams for years plural, not a year.

I'm not some Luongo fanboy, by any stretch, but he us a lot more reliable than what we have, and even if he stinks as bad as Neuvy/Holtby, we still have the other young G left, and assuming we have *not* traded the farm for Luongo....then so what?


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 02-04-2013 at 10:43 AM. Reason: fixed the missing word (important to the point)
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02-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #616
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Not sure that is a fair comparison. Theodore is more like Giguere, to me. Luongo, for all of this warts, has carried teams for years plural, not a year.

I'm not some Luongo fanboy, by any stretch, but he us a lot more reliable than what we have, and even if he stinks as bad as Neuvy/Holtby, we still have the other young G left, and assuming we have *not* traded the farm for Luongo....then so what?
i only go from what ive seen. luongo was not good for team canada in the olympics. he was yanked 4 times and benched for a 5th start in 2011. he was benched in 2012.

now his team wants to remove him and rely on a goalie of similar performance and experience to either of the caps young goalies.

i see that and wonder why if vancouver wants out, why the caps should want in?

is vancouver just wrong? if vancouver is demonsterably wrong, where's the line to get luongo away from them?

call me suspicious

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02-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #617
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I'm not sure why everyone is worried about term with Luongo. If he decides to retire etc. isn't Vancouver on the hook for his contract, simply because it was so front loaded. Or atleast I thought I remember reading that post new CBA.

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02-04-2013, 10:59 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i only go from what ive seen. luongo was not good for team canada in the olympics. he was yanked 4 times and benched for a 5th start in 2011. he was benched in 2012.

now his team wants to remove him and rely on a goalie of similar performance and experience to either of the caps young goalies.

i see that and wonder why if vancouver wants out, why the caps should want in?

is vancouver just wrong? if vancouver is demonsterably wrong, where's the line to get luongo away from them?

call me suspicious
Seriously? In five games in the 2010 Olympics, all of which his team won, he posted a .927 save percentage. He wasn't good for Team Canada? Brodeur wasn't good for Canada. With Capitals players, you're all about countering the conventional wisdom with facts, especially when the conventional wisdom is that a player sucks, chokes in the playoffs, etc. Here you seem so eager to do the opposite. Being yanked four times in a row indicates he had one really bad stretch. The equivalent of Mike Green not scoring for an entire playoff series. Is Mike Green a playoff choker?

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02-04-2013, 11:04 AM
  #619
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Louongo is a quality goaltender. If anyone has any sincere doubts about that, they haven't watched him enough. He's certainly better than anything we have.

But his contract is what makes him unattractive in a deal.

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02-04-2013, 11:06 AM
  #620
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Louongo is a quality goaltender. If anyone has any sincere doubts about that, they haven't watched him enough. He's certainly better than anything we have.

But his contract is what makes him unattractive in a deal.
Right. I have no interest in trading for him, but his supposed choking in the playoffs is hardly why. Vancouver wants out from the contract, not from the player; the Capitals shouldn't want to get under it.

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02-04-2013, 11:23 AM
  #621
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I'm not sure why everyone is worried about term with Luongo. If he decides to retire etc. isn't Vancouver on the hook for his contract, simply because it was so front loaded. Or atleast I thought I remember reading that post new CBA.
I'm about 99% sure that all each team for which he plays under the "cap circumventing" contract get penalized in an amount equal to the yearly savings for the time that he plays. Which, assuming he is traded, is about 1.4M per year until he is 38. So if he played until that point, then retired, the team that trades for him would be penalized 2.1M per year for the remaining 4 years of his deal. If he retires at 37, the penalty would be 1.4M per year for the remaining 5 years of his deal.

The Canucks will get penalized the "savings" for the first two years of the deal, and a prorated portion of this year (+6.1M) divided equally over the remaining years of his contract at the time of retirement.

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02-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #622
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Is Mike Green a playoff choker?
this will not support your point.

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02-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #623
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vancouver fans wanted to run the guy out of town because of the soft goals and poor playoff play. .916 isnt a good playoff save%. neuvirth's is .912 for comparison.
Luongo was benched last year in the playoffs for Schneinder. He was was bad. The year before he was yanked FOUR times and benched for a 5th game.

Is this forgotten?

The Canucks want to trade him even with his current hotness to keep a young goalie with Neuvy numbers.

If you want him, thats fine. That doesnt change the fact that last season he was on the bench in the playoffs because he sucked and was replaced by a goalie in the Holtby vein. Now his team who would be left with a Holtby/Neuvirth like young goalie wants him gone. So, thinking Holtby and/or Neuvirth is a better option that Luongo and his contract only mirrors what Vancouver seems to think
He "sucked" last year? That's all I need to know to see that you didn't watch a minute of the Kings-Canucks series.

Against the Bruins he had no goal support and no physical support. He let in 5 goals total in the games they won against the Bruins. In the 4 games they lost the Canucks scored a grand total for 4 goals. Yeah, that series was totally Luongo's fault.

Vancouver wanted to run him out of town because he imploded against Chicago and was an easy scapegoat. Neuvirth's .912 is is over a whopping 9 games, 5 of them against a rangers team that couldn't score on a dead hooker.

I'm sure Thomas was a pile of crap too since he was replaced by Tuukka Rask in the 2009-2010 playoffs. Good thing they traded him prior to next year eh?

Also, you should really try this new thing the kids are doing called reading. I stated I did not want him. Multiple times. I want a nice clean tank.

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02-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #624
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ok...i see the error of my ways. luongo is the difference maker the caps need. fire mcphee because he says no.

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02-04-2013, 12:37 PM
  #625
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ok...i see the error of my ways. luongo is the difference maker the caps need. fire mcphee because he says no.
-_______-

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