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02-04-2013, 10:03 AM
  #151
AmericanDream
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would love to get Weiss. still doesnt address our need to get tougher as this team will get pounded on in the playoffs. I heard Foley say the Hawks had 6 total hits against the Nucks and were outhit in that rivalry game 22-6 or something like that. I dont even think the Nucks played that physical like they could have and we still got bounced around.

we need some hitters or we will get crushed in the playoffs. a 4th line upgrade of a center and a winger with some size and grit is certainly needed for the playoff push...Weiss would just be gravy on top imo.

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02-04-2013, 10:23 AM
  #152
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would love to get Weiss. still doesnt address our need to get tougher as this team will get pounded on in the playoffs. I heard Foley say the Hawks had 6 total hits against the Nucks and were outhit in that rivalry game 22-6 or something like that. I dont even think the Nucks played that physical like they could have and we still got bounced around.

we need some hitters or we will get crushed in the playoffs. a 4th line upgrade of a center and a winger with some size and grit is certainly needed for the playoff push...Weiss would just be gravy on top imo.
Having Carcillo in the lineup will add a few more hits per game and moving Shaw back to wing should free him up to get a couple more hits per game too. Those two things alone will not vault the Hawks into being a physical team but they would help.

Aside from not having many players who play physically though, there is the puck possession style of play that skews the hit totals against the Hawks - usually the team that has the puck less, hits more. Weiss would improve the Hawk's puck possession game which is the style of play this team is built for.

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02-04-2013, 10:44 AM
  #153
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would love to get Weiss. still doesnt address our need to get tougher as this team will get pounded on in the playoffs. I heard Foley say the Hawks had 6 total hits against the Nucks and were outhit in that rivalry game 22-6 or something like that. I dont even think the Nucks played that physical like they could have and we still got bounced around.

we need some hitters or we will get crushed in the playoffs. a 4th line upgrade of a center and a winger with some size and grit is certainly needed for the playoff push...Weiss would just be gravy on top imo.
Who cares if Vancouver badly outhit Chicago? Except for a few runs at Keith in the 1st period, can you honestly say you noticed either team having a physical edge? I couldn't. As far as Vancouver-Chicago games go, it was really well-mannered.

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02-04-2013, 10:47 AM
  #154
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Who cares if Vancouver badly outhit Chicago? Except for a few runs at Keith in the 1st period, can you honestly say you noticed either team having a physical edge? I couldn't. As far as Vancouver-Chicago games go, it was really well-mannered.
Agreed. And the Hawks didn't lose last year in the playoffs because they got outhit, they lost because they couldn't beat Mike Smith. Vancouver didn't lose to LA because they got outhit, they couldn't score on Jonathan Quick. The Hawks didn't win the Cup in 2010 because they were brutalizing the other team physically.

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02-04-2013, 10:53 AM
  #155
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Agreed. And the Hawks didn't lose last year in the playoffs because they got outhit, they lost because they couldn't beat Mike Smith. Vancouver didn't lose to LA because they got outhit, they couldn't score on Jonathan Quick. The Hawks didn't win the Cup in 2010 because they were brutalizing the other team physically.
The Hawks problem last year against Phoenix was that they were a perimeter team as they didn't have enough size to score dirty goals consistently right in front of the net.

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02-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #156
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The Hawks problem last year against Phoenix was that they were a perimeter team as they didn't have enough size to score dirty goals consistently right in front of the net.
Possibly, but you can't underscore how good Smith was last year. The Hawks averaged 2 GAA against them, Nashville who is certainly not a perimeter team averaged 1.8 GAA. Even the gritty, grindy Kings only averaged 2.8 GAA. Smith stopped everyone last year. 2.18 GAA in 16 games last year in the playoffs.

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02-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #157
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Pirri-beach-1st for Weiss

Stalberg/Bickell for whatever pick you can get


Carcillo-Toews-Hossa
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Hayes

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Oduya-Hammer
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Brookbank

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02-04-2013, 11:01 AM
  #158
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Possibly, but you can't underscore how good Smith was last year. The Hawks averaged 2 GAA against them, Nashville who is certainly not a perimeter team averaged 1.8 GAA. Even the gritty, grindy Kings only averaged 2.8 GAA. Smith stopped everyone last year. 2.18 GAA in 16 games last year in the playoffs.
Exactly. The only reason LA beat PHX was because the guy standing at the other end of the ice was just a little better than Smith...and it ended up being a Conn Smythe worthy performance.

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02-04-2013, 12:51 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Who cares if Vancouver badly outhit Chicago? Except for a few runs at Keith in the 1st period, can you honestly say you noticed either team having a physical edge? I couldn't. As far as Vancouver-Chicago games go, it was really well-mannered.
I care. We have been badly outhit every game this year it seems. We won the Cup in 2010 because we had a team that could score, but one that could step it up and play the physical game with anyone in the league. We simply cannot win in the playoffs with the makeup of our team. There is a reason why Vancouver got tougher this summer after their Stanley Cup playoffs beat down.

And yes, the Nucks were much more noticeable with the physical play against us, and it wasnt close. If you couldnt see that you were watching the game with blinders on. We didnt get rolled out there, but there were plenty of big solid hits from the Nucks that game, and we responded with nothing. Six hits the entire game? As Pat Foley said, that is hard to only have 6 hits in a game.

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02-04-2013, 01:00 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
I care. We have been badly outhit every game this year it seems. We won the Cup in 2010 because we had a team that could score, but one that could step it up and play the physical game with anyone in the league. We simply cannot win in the playoffs with the makeup of our team. There is a reason why Vancouver got tougher this summer after their Stanley Cup playoffs beat down.

And yes, the Nucks were much more noticeable with the physical play against us, and it wasnt close. If you couldnt see that you were watching the game with blinders on. We didnt get rolled out there, but there were plenty of big solid hits from the Nucks that game, and we responded with nothing. Six hits the entire game? As Pat Foley said, that is hard to only have 6 hits in a game.
It seems that way because it has actually happened that way. It is not like none of us knew this entering the season, however. The Hawks are and have been an extremely soft team for a while now.

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02-04-2013, 01:03 PM
  #161
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Pirri-beach-1st for Weiss
Isn't Weiss their Captain? You think they'll trade their captain for a small C with medium upside, a AHL depth prospect and a late 1? I don't....

Stalberg, Pirri and a 1 probably doesn't even get it done.... I like Weiss though but he's probably too expensive

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02-04-2013, 01:06 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Who cares if Vancouver badly outhit Chicago? Except for a few runs at Keith in the 1st period, can you honestly say you noticed either team having a physical edge? I couldn't. As far as Vancouver-Chicago games go, it was really well-mannered.
It hadn't occured to you that the team has been so gassed recently because they've been beaten up? Because it definitely has to me.

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02-04-2013, 01:10 PM
  #163
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Hit number is one of the worst stats in hockey. You leave it up to judgement. One should gauge it by just observing good hockey plays when a guy plays a body, not the puck and things of that nature.

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02-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by KanetoToews2883 View Post
Isn't Weiss their Captain? You think they'll trade their captain for a small C with medium upside, a AHL depth prospect and a late 1? I don't....
It's the last year of his deal. If they can't lock him up long term, you can bet your ass they'd deal him for something along these lines.

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02-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #165
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It seems that way because it has actually happened that way. It is not like none of us knew this entering the season, however. The Hawks are and have been an extremely soft team for a while now.
I don't think the team has been extremely soft. A lack of fighting /= extremely soft. I think the team is pretty mentally tough, Toews Hossa Carcillo Seabrook, Bickell... etc aren't "soft" players. All of them have been willing to go do work in the dirty spots on the ice and have impressive mental toughness.

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02-04-2013, 01:13 PM
  #166
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It's the last year of his deal. If they can't lock him up long term, you can bet your ass they'd deal him for a package similar to this.
I think they can do better, even if they can't lock him up long term. Edmonton would probably outdo this by offering up Gagner. (Another longterm Chicago target supposedly). I think you overestimate the Panthers desperation. But we shall see.

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02-04-2013, 01:14 PM
  #167
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A side effect of playing puck possession is often getting outhit. Not to mention that it's very common for an arena's stat counters to award their own players more real-time stats than the away time.

And even for that huge difference in hit count, the Hawks still managed to take it to a shootout.

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02-04-2013, 01:15 PM
  #168
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I think they can do better, even if they can't lock him up long term. Edmonton would probably outdo this by offering up Gagner. (Another longterm Chicago target supposedly). I think you overestimate the Panthers desperation. But we shall see.
Edmonton isn't going to deal for a potential rental if they fall out of the race...

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02-04-2013, 01:16 PM
  #169
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I was laughed at for the Pirri, 1st, and more proposals on the main board. Pirri was labeled as garbage. Idiots.

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02-04-2013, 01:19 PM
  #170
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Edmonton isn't going to deal for a potential rental if they fall out of the race...
Edmonton isn't falling out of the race. They'll be in the playoff hunt. Their division is bad. Outside of Vancouver & Minnesota, the other two teams (Col & Cal) are bad at hockey. Edmonton v Minnesota is actually a pretty even matchup especially with Minne's scoring being dominated by one line. I wouldn't be surprised this year, if Edmonton found their way into the playoffs. They are playing good hockey.

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02-04-2013, 01:22 PM
  #171
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I was laughed at for the Pirri, 1st, and more proposals on the main board. Pirri was labeled as garbage. Idiots.
Pirri isn't garbage, but he will need to break this image of a tweener (not skilled enough to centre a scoring line, not big enough to play on a forechecking/ 4th line.)

It is a real issue. I could see Tallon being interested in Morin more than Pirri... But Pirri has to prove he can handle facing bigger opponents night in, night out before he really has the value that we think he has.

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02-04-2013, 01:22 PM
  #172
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What about taking a flier on Tangradi?

Probably would come cheap.

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02-04-2013, 01:23 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
A side effect of playing puck possession is often getting outhit. Not to mention that it's very common for an arena's stat counters to award their own players more real-time stats than the away time.

And even for that huge difference in hit count, the Hawks still managed to take it to a shootout.
agree with this, but my point is that was game #8 of 48 total and we are getting knocked around a bit. there seems to be no fear with hitting us as we have little that can deal retribution. these hits that some want to dismiss will add up on our guys as by game #48 we will see who is remotely healthy at that point if we continue to get outhit every game.

I am glad we are winning games and I think we will continue to be one of the better teams in the league until the playoffs, but my point isnt about the regular season, its about the playoffs. and simply put, this team is not built the right way to make that grind to the cup. I hope and pray I am wrong, but these guys will take a beating by the time they reach the playoffs, then will run into another team that has a bottom 6 of actual grinders and hitters and outwork us again.

players will continue to hit until someone stops them from doing it, and we really have noone outside of Carcillo and Bickell that will throw hits and put fear in our opponents to not skate across the middle of the ice or to keep their head up.

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02-04-2013, 01:24 PM
  #174
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What about taking a flier on Tangradi?

Probably would come cheap.
Another guy you might be able to get cheaply is Zac Dalpe (Car). Carolina is misusing the prospects they have... (waiving Boychuk, he's now with Pittsburgh and has a real opportunity to catch on playing with Malkin and Neal).

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02-04-2013, 01:25 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
Hit number is one of the worst stats in hockey. You leave it up to judgement. One should gauge it by just observing good hockey plays when a guy plays a body, not the puck and things of that nature.
Under that criteria the Hawks still fall short of being a physical team.

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