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Old
02-04-2013, 12:46 PM
  #76
EspenK
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Trade Umbie if at all possible for as high and as many picks as possible;

Like Blah I am having trouble rooting for the jackets to win this year. We don't need another 8th or 9th pick in the first round. I'd love to see the guys start to jell and lose a lot of close games. We'll work on the pysche next year.

Brass is reaching the point of if not now, when? I say trade him for picks also.

Wiz I am ambivalent about but I wouldn't mind him being traded for a #1.

Connor McDavid becomes available in 2015 and would make a great final brick in the rebuild.

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02-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Trade Umbie if at all possible for as high and as many picks as possible;

Like Blah I am having trouble rooting for the jackets to win this year. We don't need another 8th or 9th pick in the first round. I'd love to see the guys start to jell and lose a lot of close games. We'll work on the pysche next year.

Brass is reaching the point of if not now, when? I say trade him for picks also.

Wiz I am ambivalent about but I wouldn't mind him being traded for a #1.

Connor McDavid becomes available in 2015 and would make a great final brick in the rebuild.
So you expect to finish last ??

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02-04-2013, 01:18 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Trade Umbie if at all possible for as high and as many picks as possible;

Like Blah I am having trouble rooting for the jackets to win this year. We don't need another 8th or 9th pick in the first round. I'd love to see the guys start to jell and lose a lot of close games. We'll work on the pysche next year.

Brass is reaching the point of if not now, when? I say trade him for picks also.

Wiz I am ambivalent about but I wouldn't mind him being traded for a #1.

Connor McDavid becomes available in 2015 and would make a great final brick in the rebuild.
4 years of finishing 1-2 in the standings would result in Connor McDavid wearing a Seattle Blue Jackets uniform.

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02-04-2013, 01:28 PM
  #79
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4 years of finishing 1-2 in the standings would result in Connor McDavid wearing a Seattle Blue Jackets uniform.
Nah. I think attendance has bottomed out and they are prepared for it to be this way while they rebuild.

But I'll assume he goes to the Oilers until something indicates otherwise.

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02-04-2013, 02:01 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Trade Umbie if at all possible for as high and as many picks as possible;
I have never understood "trade him for the sake of trading him" deals. It's counterproductive.

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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Connor McDavid becomes available in 2015 and would make a great final brick in the rebuild.
As soon as McDavid started becoming a household name this early on, I made a vow that anyone who suggested he'd be a great add here would be set on fire.



(If we have a betting pool going, tho, I'll throw in for the Flames.)

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02-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #81
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howson would be the 1st to go along with everybody he hired including this yrs draft people he brought in.
2nd i would get rid of umberger lazy and guy gives no production in any way shape or form
3rd i get rid of wiz contract to big for what he does has a big shot but nothing else hell he want even drop the gloves or check half the time and he is a very good fighter but lost his edge fought 1 time since being here in columbus.so where did his gritt go.country club living
4th do not sign mason again just because he plays good here and there.

5th aucoin should have never been signed waste of a roster spot
6th this is most important find a coach that has a clue for god sakes

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02-04-2013, 02:30 PM
  #82
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i don't even know how to respond to that...so much wrong...

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02-04-2013, 02:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I have never understood "trade him for the sake of trading him" deals. It's counterproductive.



As soon as McDavid started becoming a household name this early on, I made a vow that anyone who suggested he'd be a great add here would be set on fire.



(If we have a betting pool going, tho, I'll throw in for the Flames.)
Who knows what the pick(s) may bring? Couldn't be much worse than what we're getting now.

If I recall guys like Crosby, Stamkos & maybe Tavares were household names early on.

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02-04-2013, 02:57 PM
  #84
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i don't even know how to respond to that...so much wrong...
I tried and failed so here's a bunny with TP on its head.


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02-04-2013, 02:57 PM
  #85
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So you expect to finish last ??
Not expect but if we were fully rebuilding with lots of young guys I wouldn't be upset. Matter of fact I'd be pretty darn happy.

This years 3 #1, next years 1 and Joey,Cam, the young D this could be a pretty decent club down the road.

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02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Not expect but if we were fully rebuilding with lots of young guys I wouldn't be upset. Matter of fact I'd be pretty darn happy.

This years 3 #1, next years 1 and Joey,Cam, the young D this could be a pretty decent club down the road.
Losing and promoting losing (tanking) ...


... begets losing and losers.


No thank you.

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02-04-2013, 03:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Losing and promoting losing (tanking) ...


... begets losing and losers.


No thank you.
That's not what I said. What I was getting at is that if we had built the team with young guys from the start instead of trading for or signing the Daryl Sydor's and Jan Hrdina's of the world I believe the team would be on much more solid ground then it is currently.

Do you think Edmonton is tanking to accumulate guys like Hall, Eberle, Yakupov & RNH? I think they are playing the hand they were dealt which was we have a crappy team, lets rebuild it the right way. the Jackets never have grasped that concept and as a result suck, but not bad enough to get the top ranked prospects.

I know the PMA crowd thinks we are one guy away from the Cup (well maybe thats a bit of an exageration) but if you can dump semi- or non-productive guys like Umberger and Brassard for more picks I see nothing wrong.

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02-04-2013, 04:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
That's not what I said. What I was getting at is that if we had built the team with young guys from the start instead of trading for or signing the Daryl Sydor's and Jan Hrdina's of the world I believe the team would be on much more solid ground then it is currently.

Do you think Edmonton is tanking to accumulate guys like Hall, Eberle, Yakupov & RNH? I think they are playing the hand they were dealt which was we have a crappy team, lets rebuild it the right way. the Jackets never have grasped that concept and as a result suck, but not bad enough to get the top ranked prospects.

I know the PMA crowd thinks we are one guy away from the Cup (well maybe thats a bit of an exageration) but if you can dump semi- or non-productive guys like Umberger and Brassard for more picks I see nothing wrong.
I just grate a little bit whenever I see posts projecting a first or second overall pick as the way to build a roster.

I do not think we are one guy away from the cup especially if the guy is a draft pick no matter how "special" he may be touted to be. The top of the draft is a fine place to find a fine player, just not a place I want to see my team occupying much less aspiring to.

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02-04-2013, 04:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
I just grate a little bit whenever I see posts projecting a first or second overall pick as the way to build a roster.

I do not think we are one guy away from the cup especially if the guy is a draft pick no matter how "special" he may be touted to be. The top of the draft is a fine place to find a fine player, just not a place I want to see my team occupying much less aspiring to.
I think it is A way to build a roster and since the throw stuff on the wall to get a team that finishes in the Voracek, Brassard,Brule, Johansen, Filatov slot hasn't worked, guess I'm up for a different approach.

If we had a MacKinnon or Jones and a Yakupov or Murray and a Kane and Toews i think it would be easier to attract the better free agents. Of course I know that FA's aren't the way to build a team either.

obviously there are many ways to do it. the Jackets just haven't found it yet. I prefer the one brick at a time to be top draft choices not 8's & 9's. And yes I know there have been good players drafted all over the board. Just playing the odds.

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02-04-2013, 04:45 PM
  #90
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I think it is A way to build a roster and since the throw stuff on the wall to get a team that finishes in the Voracek, Brassard,Brule, Johansen, Filatov slot hasn't worked, guess I'm up for a different approach.

If we had a MacKinnon or Jones and a Yakupov or Murray and a Kane and Toews i think it would be easier to attract the better free agents. Of course I know that FA's aren't the way to build a team either.

obviously there are many ways to do it. the Jackets just haven't found it yet. I prefer the one brick at a time to be top draft choices not 8's & 9's. And yes I know there have been good players drafted all over the board. Just playing the odds.
I understand exactly what you're saying, and if we end up at the top of the draft so be it. Take your guy and go.

My problem is with the proposition that a team should aspire to get there. If you were to ask any of the players, coaches, staff, GM, President of Hockey Ops, or owner if they think they should lose a game or two or three or however many in order to get the first pick, my guess is that 99.66% () would simply ignore such an idea (if they didn't deck you for making such a suggestion).

You play to win the game....

...not the draft.

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02-04-2013, 05:23 PM
  #91
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I understand exactly what you're saying, and if we end up at the top of the draft so be it. Take your guy and go.

My problem is with the proposition that a team should aspire to get there. If you were to ask any of the players, coaches, staff, GM, President of Hockey Ops, or owner if they think they should lose a game or two or three or however many in order to get the first pick, my guess is that 99.66% () would simply ignore such an idea (if they didn't deck you for making such a suggestion).

You play to win the game....

...not the draft.
Now its personal -

BTW I am not advocating tanking. i think you should always play to win I'm just advocating taking the rebuild in a different direction that says if we're not making the playoffs by a big margin, get what you can for middling talent.

Now if losing the last game means either Jones or MacKinnon, its a long season, guys could use some rest.

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02-04-2013, 05:41 PM
  #92
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Now its personal -

BTW I am not advocating tanking. i think you should always play to win I'm just advocating taking the rebuild in a different direction that says if we're not making the playoffs by a big margin, get what you can for middling talent.

Now if losing the last game means either Jones or MacKinnon, its a long season, guys could use some rest.
Couldn't resist ... personal maybe but not meant to be derogatory.

The bolded?, maybe maybe not. Depends on your definition of margin and your definition of middling talent. Neither of which I am willing to do 9 games in.

Sounds suspiciously like a discussion that will be revisited, I look forward to it.

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02-04-2013, 07:08 PM
  #93
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Couldn't resist ... personal maybe but not meant to be derogatory.

The bolded?, maybe maybe not. Depends on your definition of margin and your definition of middling talent. Neither of which I am willing to do 9 games in.

Sounds suspiciously like a discussion that will be revisited, I look forward to it.
to be continued

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02-04-2013, 08:08 PM
  #94
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I realize this is an Umberger thread (eh hmmmm), but for those who are concerned about the CBJ getting McDavid in 2015.... who says it has to be the CBJ 1st? If we can trade Umberger or Brass or who knows for a 2015 1st why can't that teams first be the 1st overall.

Now we just need to trade them to teams that will suck in 2 years! CBJ can make the playoffs AND get McDavid! Argument settled.

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02-04-2013, 08:14 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Who knows what the pick(s) may bring? Couldn't be much worse than what we're getting now.
The real question is whether or not it'll be any better than what we can expect to get over the course of the season.

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If I recall guys like Crosby, Stamkos & maybe Tavares were household names early on.
That's nice, and also completely beside the point. The idea is that I find the suggestion that we should still be shooting for 1st overall picks that many years into the future to be wrongheaded and repugnant, for reasons that Roadman has IMO more than adequately explained.

* * *
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I realize this is an Umberger thread (eh hmmmm), but for those who are concerned about the CBJ getting McDavid in 2015.... who says it has to be the CBJ 1st? If we can trade Umberger or Brass or who knows for a 2015 1st why can't that teams first be the 1st overall.

Now we just need to trade them to teams that will suck in 2 years! CBJ can make the playoffs AND get McDavid! Argument settled.
But then we lose out on over two years of player production in favor of a vague promise at Our Next Lord And Savior...


THE ARGUMENT DOES NOT END UNTIL EVERYBODY AGREES WITH ME

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02-04-2013, 08:56 PM
  #96
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I have never understood "trade him for the sake of trading him" deals. It's counterproductive.
Actually, it's not. It's unrealistic, however. Umgarbage is not tradeable. No one will take him. No one. It's pure and simple. He sucks.

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02-04-2013, 09:12 PM
  #97
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When people need to take a shot at Tyutin they point at his +/- and forget that he's leading the team in scoring.
Some of them also dislike Umberger and point at his lack of scoring. At the same time they forget that RJ has the best +/- on the team.
That's some kind of strange logic.

We're only 8 games into the season. I have no idea where all those global conclusions are coming from. Last game Umberger was the 4th-5th best player on the ice on pair with Duby. The first three were Arty, Mason and JMFJ. If he keeps it up I won't mind him on the team.

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02-04-2013, 10:42 PM
  #98
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THE ARGUMENT DOES NOT END UNTIL EVERYBODY AGREES WITH ME
I feel the same way every day, minus the sarcasm.

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02-04-2013, 10:55 PM
  #99
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Actually, it's not. It's unrealistic, however. Umgarbage is not tradeable. No one will take him. No one. It's pure and simple. He sucks.
Tell me, do you have a standard for evaluating players outside of the set categories of "he's an excellent player" or "he sucks and is worthless"? 'Cause if so, I have yet to observe same.

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02-05-2013, 01:24 AM
  #100
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Tell me, do you have a standard for evaluating players outside of the set categories of "he's an excellent player" or "he sucks and is worthless"? 'Cause if so, I have yet to observe same.
You don't observe much.

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