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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-03-2013, 04:25 PM
  #101
lakai17
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Keep Gagner, but replace Hemsky with a bigger forward (winger or centerman). Gagner can play RW or C, Yakupov can play either wing--which gives a lot more flexibility. Should make a pitch for Horton if he ever becomes an UFA.
Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Yakupov-RNH-Horton

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Old
02-03-2013, 04:37 PM
  #102
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You need to vacum clean very hard to find players who brake out 6th season or later. Adam oates


1985-86 Detroit Red Wings NHL 38 9 11 20 10 -24
1986-87 Detroit Red Wings NHL 76 15 32 47 21 0

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Playoffs 16 8 12 20 6 -2

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1990-91 St. Louis Blues NHL 61 25 90 115 29 15
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I would say that oates had his break out season in his third season 54p in 62gp and 20p in 16 play off games! Then 78p his 4th season etc.
It's not fair to look at it as simply his 6th season. Almost all players aren't able to make the NHL at 18. A 23 year old having a breakout season is nothing new, and Gagner was a good player before the last season or so

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02-03-2013, 05:34 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
It's not fair to look at it as simply his 6th season. Almost all players aren't able to make the NHL at 18. A 23 year old having a breakout season is nothing new, and Gagner was a good player before the last season or so
Gagner has been putting up 40+ for years. His offensive numbers were always very respectable for a 2C. I am not sure whether what observe now can be called a break-out. More like more consistent production.
Either way, it's his defensive game that always had people questioning his future with the team. But who cares about his defensive limitations if he becomes a PPG player.

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02-03-2013, 07:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not sure how long people need Gagner to be on a proving ground.

The guy has 55pts in his last 82GP. Good enough production to be #1Center on many clubs.
Points have nothing to do with it.

Theres 20+ players he is outscoring that are simply better players than he is, including MANY that are young and have a much higher ceiling.

There are easily 60 Centers in the top scoring from last year that are better than Gagner.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

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02-03-2013, 07:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Points have nothing to do with it.

Theres 20+ players he is outscoring that are simply better players than he is, including MANY that are young and have a much higher ceiling.

There are easily 60 Centers in the top scoring from last year that are better than Gagner.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
We'll never agree on that. Which is fine.

Whats this recurring notion in the thread that Gagner is bad defensively? He was the most responsible forward on the club all of last season. He has -numbers this season due to who he's playing with and being saddled with an idiot like Whitney. Really on this club anybody who has Whitney as an anchor is going to have - numbers. Gagners also been out for two empty net GA. His fault as well I suppose..

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02-03-2013, 09:32 PM
  #106
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Its only 8 games played yet, so we will see where Gags ends up! The team has improved since last season and players like Gagner would benefit from playing more in offensive zone.

Sammy has made 5 of his 9 points in pp, hes been good in pp true out the years.
Hes looking good when he get a lot of free ice in open games against columbus,avs and those type of teams.

To me he hasnt improved his defence and his fo stats also tell us that. He got 6 Gva and is nr 1 among forwards in the team with that(taylor has 2). He is 2th in the team after smid in penaltys against.


Fo stats starting with vancouver game 50% Sjs 58,82% Lak 16,67% Cgy 28,57% Col 58,33% Phx 30% Sjs 40% Col 30,77% and i got that to 39.15 % in total at FO.
Hes 11-20 in offensive zone and 11-17 in defensive zone and 12-17 in neutral zone .

Its a small sample (8 games) he hasnt change much from other seasons to me, He rack up points in pp ans hes in the top of turn overs, and his start to take penaltys is worse then before. - His always been a - player(last year was a outlier).

So we have to wait and see how he end up this season. Thinks he do more points with better linemates then earlier years but would that make up for that he isnt contribute in pk fo and other areas and ends up with big minus? I dont think so.

I voted legit 2c but trade him! I dont thinks hes a 2c in a cup winner,but could be a offensive dynamo in lesser teams who needs offense and pp skill.


Last edited by McClelland: 02-03-2013 at 09:38 PM.
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Old
02-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #107
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Gagner has proven to me that he can be the number one center with legitimate linemates.

Next question!

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:43 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Gagner has proven to me that he can be the number one center with legitimate linemates.

Next question!


Get used to seeing us draft top 5 every year if Gagner ever became our 1st line center.

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02-04-2013, 01:31 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Iron Maiden Led View Post


Get used to seeing us draft top 5 every year if Gagner ever became our 1st line center.
Yeah, we totally need a defensive minded center, about 6'2, can win faceoffs, do the heavy lifting against top opposition. Then, and only then will the Oilers get out of the lottery spot.

Maybe we can get that Horcoff guy, he still play hockey?


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02-04-2013, 01:36 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Yeah, we totally need a defensive minded center, about 6'2, can win faceoffs, do the heavy lifting against top opposition. Then, and only then will the Oilers get out of the lottery spot.

Maybe we can get that Horcoff guy, he still play hockey
?

No. No he can't.

I think Gagner's played exceptional this stretch. If he keeps this up, well, he still won't break that point barrier...

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02-04-2013, 02:33 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Gagner has proven to me that he can be the number one center with legitimate linemates.

Next question!
Yes he did, In austria! He would be exellent in swiss leuage centering Linus omark in his 1st line!

We are oiler fans with different opinions about our players. I wishing that sammy could be our 2c in the future. But the fact is, i get scared for his sake every time hes on the ice in defending zone. Everytime he has the puck in attack mode, i waiting for the turn over to come, or when you do high 5 with your friends when he wins a face off. When you have that aproach towards a player and start feeling sorry for them and celebrate things that would be a routin thing for other players, then its time to let them go.

You cant nursing a player for ages and find excuses for their - stats,flaws and blame others. There is a time for every player when they becomes men, when they can holding them selves and are responsible for their own acts.

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Old
02-04-2013, 05:05 AM
  #112
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He has been 2nd line center man for some time

Last year he outplayed Horcoff and became 2nd line center. He played behind poor first line center (RNH was work in the process) in the porr team and he played well. He could hve been second lind center behind average firstline center in the average team.

He has improved a lot si nce last year. He is excellent number 2 center in the average team and he is still improving. We need just two building blocks for him. Power forwars to replace Hemsky off season 2014 and number 3 center with size and some offense to play behind him in off season 2013.

Horcoff is done and he will not be back after this season. Lander is not good enough to fill number 3 skates

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:26 AM
  #113
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Horcoff is done and he will not be back after this season. Lander is not good enough to fill number 3 skates
Wrong - he still has considerable value and he'll play out his contract in Edmonton, likely re-signing here as well.

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02-04-2013, 08:48 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Points have nothing to do with it.

Theres 20+ players he is outscoring that are simply better players than he is, including MANY that are young and have a much higher ceiling.

There are easily 60 Centers in the top scoring from last year that are better than Gagner.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
You mean WERE better two years ago right?

Sorry to burst your bubbles but Gagner has evolved into an entirely new player in the last 2 years, he has embraced a new mindset careerwise.

The Big Night was a result of the beginnings of these changes in his perspective.

I was pounding on the Gagner drum three years ago when I realised he never quits working and saw huge upside in his vision and on-ice perspective. He is teachable, coachable, and responsive.


Silent Sam Gagner has taken the next step in his career and will not ever regress as history says he never ever has since he was brought on to the team.

I said prior to the season that Sam Gagner would push for the team points lead with RNH and the 2nd line would possibly lead the team as is happening right now, I just didnt expect Hopkins to be handcuffed by Kruegers system so things arent quite there yet, but if Ralph hopes to see sucessfull years here he will figure out where he is going wrong because the top lines issues are system catalysed not player catalysed.

Hall needs to start letting Nuge carry the puck a lot more than he is or he needs to audition for a centermans job part time. Yes Hall can gain the o-zone, yes he can put up shots, but we need to use him in a different way, he is not the 1st line catalyst that position belongs to Nuge so unless RNH takes Halls workload of shots and net drives we need Hall back doing what he does best and that is being a consistant threat on the wing providing Nuge his line leader and catalyst with a stable system platform to build creative offense from .

Right now Hall is trying to be the line catalyst like Hemmer is doing on the 2nd line and these two dynamicly mismanaged situations are holding back 30% or more of our offensive capability from being realised within the system on both the 1st and 2nd lines--nevermind that not putting hemmer on the 3rd line cripples our scoring depth. Those two wild-men need to tone it down and do their EveryMan jobs systemwise instead of trying to lead by being the line catalysts they are working so hard at being.

This is a coaching issue that is based on "Intuative Dynamic Analysis" of player capability within the system, an area where we are sorely lacking, maybe we need to redirect some of the resources we commit to Darkhorse or ask them to provide this service to the team because all of our cutting edge exploratory resources are now being invested in Statistical Analysis which is proving to be useless to the team in 75% of the areas it is applied. Wake up Oilers, the Statistical Analysis game is a huge con-job, these spin-doctors are not reincarnations of Roger Neillson and they provide nothing tangible to the organisation nothing that can be quantified and defined on a results based scale, Statistical Analysts are like bookys setting odds in Vegas, all they can do is guess and help you guess, not help you guess better because a guess is a guess folks, ha ha ha. They are never wrong, get it--its a con-job if they cannot be held accountable.

Samwise has learned to execute his system responsibilitys and has also learned to ADD to that dynamic and create offense from within the system that isnt always catalysed by the system itself, maybe someone ought to simply ask him what he is doing differently. Instead of pretending his sucess and consistancy while playing within system parameters isnt happening.


Last edited by BadMedicine*: 02-04-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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Old
02-04-2013, 08:49 AM
  #115
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I am becoming a big fan of Sam Gagner's intangibles, especially the way he's taken Yakupov under his wing, so it's hard for me to say ... but ...

I still don't think he should be our answer for 2C given the lack of grit in our top 6.

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02-04-2013, 08:56 AM
  #116
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If Gagner was only 4 inches taller..

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02-04-2013, 08:58 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
No. No he can't.

I think Gagner's played exceptional this stretch. If he keeps this up, well, he still won't break that point barrier...
Read the stats page and get with the program. In a pro-rated season which this happens to be you can say we are 16 games in and he is at about a PPG and leading the team in scoring-- 4 more games and this season is 25% over, what kind of BS stories will the Gagner critics be spinning then when he is still leading the team in points?
Any game now he and yakupov are both going to shoot the lights out for multiple goals and he will begin to pad his points lead on the team, I stand by Gagner and believe he should be wearing the C already. Watch him be bumped up to the first unit soon to jumpstart them. Thats what team leaders do you know, ha ha ha ha.

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02-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #118
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Sams doing fine. Second line isn't our problem it's the first line. Barely (not even) a goal a game out of those three? Bogus.

Where's the run and gun 5 goal games we should get with the offense we have! We should average 3 goals per game.
Dubnyk has picked up his game and now we get less goals and still lose.

Same old same old but with better players. Almost like we are being coached by McTavish. WTF. Maybe now were in learning mode. One step past loosing for the draft mode.

End of rant

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02-04-2013, 09:27 AM
  #119
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Read the stats page and get with the program. In a pro-rated season which this happens to be you can say we are 16 games in and he is at about a PPG and leading the team in scoring-- 4 more games and this season is 25% over, what kind of BS stories will the Gagner critics be spinning then when he is still leading the team in points?
Any game now he and yakupov are both going to shoot the lights out for multiple goals and he will begin to pad his points lead on the team, I stand by Gagner and believe he should be wearing the C already. Watch him be bumped up to the first unit soon to jumpstart them. Thats what team leaders do you know, ha ha ha ha.
That he will make more points in a better oilers and with better linemates isnt a surprise!

The problem isnt that he can make points with open ice, as in pp, that has he done quite good before in his career. The problem with him is that he doesnt play the c game, hes cheating or cant handle his c dutys, he plays like a winger but in the middle. Hes -4 has 6 Gav (leader by 2 to next one). Hes 39% at fo and is 2th in taken penaltys.

He cant be used in pk, he cant be used as a winger(to slow) He cant be used in the bottom lines. We dont give him 2 big wingers who is good defensive, because he isnt worth all that trouble. He isnt a bad player but hes a bad fit for us going forward and taking the next step. We have enough trouble nursing our 1 picks and give them a good journey and development, not a small c on his 6th season.

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02-04-2013, 09:33 AM
  #120
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Sams doing fine. Second line isn't our problem it's the first line. Barely (not even) a goal a game out of those three? Bogus.

Where's the run and gun 5 goal games we should get with the offense we have! We should average 3 goals per game.
Dubnyk has picked up his game and now we get less goals and still lose.

Same old same old but with better players. Almost like we are being coached by McTavish. WTF. Maybe now were in learning mode. One step past loosing for the draft mode.

End of rant
The first line has been playing substantially better than the second line at both ends of the ice.

Sometimes the puck just doesn't go in.

Over the long term you can bank on a line of: Eberle-RNH-Hall outscoring a line of: Yak-Gagner-Hemsky.

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02-04-2013, 01:51 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
The first line has been playing substantially better than the second line at both ends of the ice.

Sometimes the puck just doesn't go in.

Over the long term you can bank on a line of: Eberle-RNH-Hall outscoring a line of: Yak-Gagner-Hemsky.
As long as J Schultz is playing with the first line and Whitney with the second you can. Its embarrassing with that advantage that the first line forwards have been outscored 10-5.

The first line is getting more minutes, better D support, more PP minutes, and the advantage of playing with ALL premier players, playing together as a unit ALL YEAR, and not getting it done yet. Bounces?

They need to be working in the paint more. Not peripheral telegraphed plays and turning the puck over repeatedly.


How this line didn't hit the ground with a running start is incomprehensible. Been playing together as a unit for months now. What other line in the whole league has that advantage?

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02-04-2013, 02:18 PM
  #122
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For me, if he can continue a strong level of consistency (not this high, but high) this entire year, then I will feel more confident, though the Oilers will still have to find some size for the top-6
I agree completely. We're talking about this way too soon into the season. If he puts up more than 25 points in this shortened season and scores 10 or more goals, I'll be happy and say we should keep him. We don't have enough depth elsewhere to send Gagner+ to another team for a better 2nd line center, so a trade is out of the question right now.

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02-04-2013, 02:19 PM
  #123
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Gagner is leading the team in points. Not too shabby.

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02-04-2013, 02:24 PM
  #124
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What more does he need to do? He scores clutch goals, sets up his speedy wingers, good in the SO, plays responsible defence, much improved FO man, effective point man on the PP.
He's in the top 1/2 of 2nd line centres in the league, and easily one of the most versatile.

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02-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #125
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As long as J Schultz is playing with the first line and Whitney with the second you can. Its embarrassing with that advantage that the first line forwards have been outscored 10-5.

The first line is getting more minutes, better D support, more PP minutes, and the advantage of playing with ALL premier players, playing together as a unit ALL YEAR, and not getting it done yet. Bounces?

They need to be working in the paint more. Not peripheral telegraphed plays and turning the puck over repeatedly.


How this line didn't hit the ground with a running start is incomprehensible. Been playing together as a unit for months now. What other line in the whole league has that advantage?
The fact that these kids were producing well lsat year really bakes my noodle. I worry that Hopkins is playing injuried.

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