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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
In the first 3 games, he was standing on his head but thats when they were missing several key guys due to injury. Now that those players have returned and the offense is starting to click, Theo doesnt quite need to stand on his head as much. Keep in mind too that Gudbranson is expected to return either tomorrow or Thurs so that should improve the defense with his brand of physical hockey needed.

No one is questioning that Luongo, in terms of talent, would be an upgrade to Theo. But what it would take to acquire Luongo wouldnt be worth it as an upgrade. Theo is good enough to keep the Panthers in most games and with the production from their forwards starting to become more of a normal sight, they should be able to continue to compete on a nightly basis.
#1 we don't know Gillis' asking price. frankly, I believe it's lower than what the media is having us believe.

#2 as a Panthers fan, you better hope the Panthers make a habit of giving Theo 4+ goals of support from here on out, because if the Panthers are in the playoff hunt (and in the weak East, they will be) and all Theo can give them is average goaltending, you better believe Tallon will want to shore up what he's got between the pipes as the Panthers challenge for a playoff spot/gear up for the playoffs.

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02-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Pretty sure the Canucks are going to have to take a minimal return and/or absorb a large bit of cash (either through another bad contract coming back, or just salary retention.


Who on earth gives a guy a contract lasting to age 43?!?
Not as bad as Ovechkin's though. Yikes!
Who would have thought at the time that Ovy would end up playing at this level.

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02-04-2013, 03:13 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
McPhee coming out with that contract was quite funny. Ovy's contract is Lu's contract on steroids. Real prohibitive there George, yeah.


Negotiating in the media much?
Ovechkin is that franchise. Your comparison is out to lunch.

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02-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
McPhee coming out with that contract was quite funny. Ovy's contract is Lu's contract on steroids. Real prohibitive there George, yeah.


Negotiating in the media much?
I think you missed the point COMPLETELY. They have 2 guys already on career deals for big $$. They can't take on another without really hurting the team's flexibility.

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02-04-2013, 03:15 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Ovechkin is that franchise. Your comparison is out to lunch.
I think you've nailed the Capitals problems right there. Hopefully he rebounds because otherwise that is a much more brutal contract than Luongo's.

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02-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #506
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Not as bad as Ovechkin's though. Yikes!
Who would have thought at the time that Ovy would end up playing at this level.
Ovechkin is 27....PLENTY of time for him to regain form and he's THE franchise centerpiece and his deal doesn't take him into his 40s.


But yeah...who would have thought?

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02-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #507
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[QUOTE=Bleach Clean;59032411]Nope. Before this Luongo situation, I thought Bob was pretty unbiased, but I realized he isn't if he doesn't have any insider info to report on a certain team. He essentially adopts the stance of teams that are giving him leaks.



He shouldn't have said that about a Lu deal because he doesn't have a GM's knowledge of evaluating the contract. People listen to this guy as a source of information. The average fan puts a lot of stock in what he has to say, so there is a responsibility on him to just report things and not speculate based on his limited financial knowledge. He made a mistake there.



*****A deal not getting done could have nothing to do with his contract. What if the expected return is astronomical? Is it still the contract? People just don't know, but it hasn't stopped BM from speculating. ******



Of course you are still entitled to believe Bob is completely unbiased. That's your opinion. It doesn't hold any sway with me or others that thing that he does have bias, but you are welcome to keep it.





* is it not possible to the point I have starred up there that it is a comination of the size of the return and his contract?

As for your first point if that is the case if his sources have been other GM's which in a lot of cases insiders sources are, is it still uninformed?

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02-04-2013, 03:19 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Pretty sure the Canucks are going to have to take a minimal return and/or absorb a large bit of cash (either through another bad contract coming back, or just salary retention.


Who on earth gives a guy a contract lasting to age 43?!?
Someone hasn't done much research on the contract structure and details regarding Lou's retirement.

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02-04-2013, 03:19 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Ovechkin is that franchise. Your comparison is out to lunch.


At one point, Luongo was the best player in VAN, akin to the franchise. It's not until the Sedins exploded under Gillis that the perception changed. Based on that, I'd say it's your opinion that isn't worth a squirt. Enjoy your day.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I think you missed the point COMPLETELY. They have 2 guys already on career deals for big $$. They can't take on another without really hurting the team's flexibility.


He actually doesn't hurt the team's year to year flexibility. His cap-hit is artificially _below_ that of other, similar calibre goaltenders. At 5.3m, you'll be hard pressed to find a better value goaltending solution, year to year.


As for down the road, you may have a point. But then Ovy's contract, being almost twice as much as Lu's cap hit, will go a long way in ensuring cap inflexibility than Luongo's contract does.

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02-04-2013, 03:20 PM
  #510
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I think you've nailed the Capitals problems right there. Hopefully he rebounds because otherwise that is a much more brutal contract than Luongo's.
I'd rather have a top line winger than a platoon goalie on such a contract but hey, that's just me.

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02-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #511
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Ben Kuzma ‏@benkuzma

Luongo on being chirped by the opposition: "Actually, it's hasn't been chirps. It's been the opposite. Compliments and a lot of support

Ben Kuzma ‏@benkuzma

... Asking me if I want to play for their team and a couple of things like that."

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02-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #512
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I'd rather have a top line winger than a platoon goalie on such a contract but hey, that's just me.
As a Leaf's fan I can see how you might prefer a winger over a top 5 goalie. Stopping the puck is overrated.

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02-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Ovechkin is 27....PLENTY of time for him to regain form and he's THE franchise centerpiece and his deal doesn't take him into his 40s.


But yeah...who would have thought?
Ovechkin has 2 problems (in my not so humble opinion) - his conditioning is not on the level of an elite athlete - at least not from this decade, and he doesn't seem to have much vision (he doesn't use his line mates).

I think it possible he could recommit himself to conditioning at this age, but I doubt he all of a sudden develops better vision/chemistry/playmaking ability.

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02-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
At one point, Luongo was the best player in VAN, akin to the franchise. It's not until the Sedins exploded under Gillis that the perception changed. Based on that, I'd say it's your opinion that isn't worth a squirt. Enjoy your day.
So a player's value is determined by their play in a different era?

Somehow I don't see other GMs using that logic, as much as Gillis might wish they did.

What do you think the return for Luongo should be?

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02-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #515
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Someone hasn't done much research on the contract structure and details regarding Lou's retirement.
Does his contract run to age 43 or not? Yes or no?

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02-04-2013, 03:26 PM
  #516
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* is it not possible to the point I have starred up there that it is a comination of the size of the return and his contract?

As for your first point if that is the case if his sources have been other GM's which in a lot of cases insiders sources are, is it still uninformed?


It could be a combination, but then said GM needs to be immediately fired for not understanding the advantages to a cap-circumvention deal. Somehow, I doubt GMs are as stupid as to view that contract as a negative. But you never know.


More than the cap-circumvention, it will come down to the actual money owed. Do GMs still view Luongo as a 7m goaltender in _real_ money. That will be the question. A point of note, he got 6.75m under a 40m~ cap. Just FYI.


----


If Bob gets his information from only outside sources, how can that constitute an informed opnion on a player that resides on a completely different team? You want an informed opinion, you get as close to the source as possible, and that's Gillis. Not to mention that his opinion lacks any semblance of balance because he isn't talking to the Canucks at all... you know, the team that currently _has_ Luongo?

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02-04-2013, 03:27 PM
  #517
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Does his contract run to age 43 or not? Yes or no?
Yes. But the last few years are minimal salary unlike Ovechkin's. Luongo's was a cap circumventing contract but Ovechkin's was based on a player being elite for the full contract.

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02-04-2013, 03:28 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Ovechkin has 2 problems (in my not so humble opinion) - his conditioning is not on the level of an elite athlete - at least not from this decade, and he doesn't seem to have much vision (he doesn't use his line mates).

I think it possible he could recommit himself to conditioning at this age, but I doubt he all of a sudden develops better vision/chemistry/playmaking ability.
IMO, his issues are 95% mental. That combined with a dysfunctional locker room and roster all put together by McPhee and mounting pressure on Ovy and he's falling apart.

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02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
  #519
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So a player's value is determined by their play in a different era?

Somehow I don't see other GMs using that logic, as much as Gillis might wish they did.

What do you think the return for Luongo should be?


That other "era" was about 4 years ago. Hardly the epic here, and GMs don't have short memories. And really, other players reaching all-star elite status only diminishes one by comparison. Luongo is still a top7-8 goalie in the league. Teams build around far less...



Return I want? good prospect + 1st rounder. Rumoured structure of what Gillis wants? good prospect + high pick + decent roster player.

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02-04-2013, 03:31 PM
  #520
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#1 we don't know Gillis' asking price. frankly, I believe it's lower than what the media is having us believe.
Gillis has said several times in the media that he expects fair compensation for a top goaltender like Luongo. Regardless, unless the asking price includes taking a salary cap dump like Upshall in the deal to make it work salary-wise for the Panthers ownership, I dont see how it works for the Panthers. And if the Panthers are including a cap dump in the deal (which Gillis has said he is not interested in several times also), that means the Panthers will probably have to give up a better asset than they really want.
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#2 as a Panthers fan, you better hope the Panthers make a habit of giving Theo 4+ goals of support from here on out, because if the Panthers are in the playoff hunt (and in the weak East, they will be) and all Theo can give them is average goaltending, you better believe Tallon will want to shore up what he's got between the pipes as the Panthers challenge for a playoff spot/gear up for the playoffs.
I dont expect Theo to keep giving up more than 3 goals a game which is not normal for him. The addition of Gudbranson coming back on defense should help that squad hopefully improve in their own zone and help Theo out.

Also with the way Mueller is playing with youngsters Shore & Huberdeau, the team finally has a 2nd offensive line so yes I expect them to keep scoring goals (maybe not at the exact same pace but better than last yr). Mueller has 4 goals in the last 4 games and Shore in those games has an impressive 63.5% faceoff winning percentage (control the puck and you control the offense). With Theo giving just "average" goaltending as you suggest, the team will be fine with that going into the playoffs.

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02-04-2013, 03:32 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Does his contract run to age 43 or not? Yes or no?

Is Ovy's contract almost _twice_ as much as Lu's? Yes or no? That contract is a complete albatross from the way he's playing right now. 9.5m on a 64.3m cap... good grief.

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02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
  #522
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He actually doesn't hurt the team's year to year flexibility. His cap-hit is artificially _below_ that of other, similar calibre goaltenders. At 5.3m, you'll be hard pressed to find a better value goaltending solution, year to year.


As for down the road, you may have a point. But then Ovy's contract, being almost twice as much as Lu's cap hit, will go a long way in ensuring cap inflexibility than Luongo's contract does.
Adding another boat anchor contract absolutely DOES hurt the Cap's flexibility. The only cap room they have is what was left from letting Semin walk and they still have a huge hole in the top-6.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually one of the few Caps fans who seem to realize how good Luongo is and the boost he would give the team. That doesn't make it any easier to absorb that scary contract into their team structure.

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02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
  #523
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Craig Custance ‏@CraigCustance

Mike Gillis reached out to George McPhee today, said wasn't his intention to create Luongo distraction in DC. McPhee appreciated the call.
Thus ending the Luongo to Washington speculation. Unless you believe that Gillis, McPhee, and every single beat writer is lying.

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02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #524
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Is Ovy's contract almost _twice_ as much as Lu's? Yes or no? That contract is a complete albatross from the way he's playing right now. 9.5m on a 64.3m cap... good grief.


One is the face of the franchise, the other clearly wouldn't be. One fills Verizon center every night. Luongo isn't going to do that in DC.

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02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #525
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As a Leaf's fan I can see how you might prefer a winger over a top 5 goalie. Stopping the puck is overrated.
If Luongo was on a sensible contract he'd return a good value. He's a solid asset for the next four years maybe... After that he's a huge liability financially and with respect to the cap. With respect to the former, it wipes out a lot of the league because they can't take the long term financial burden. The cap burden makes wealthy teams think twice.

In reality there is only one team who are dumb enough to take on this guy and pay anything in value for him and it's the Leafs. That opportunity dwindles by the day as Carlyle's defensive system becomes more entrenched and Reimer continues giving reliable goaltending.

The Canucks will have to take a brutal contract back to get this done, and even that may not do it with the availability of amnesty buyouts per the most recent CBA.

Washington do not want him. Florida takes him if the Canucks eat big cash/cap. Flyers take him if Bryzgalov goes (Flyers buying out Bryzgalov and paying through their ass is a Canucks fan's wet/pipe dream). Leafs will offer the best deal, but do they even want him anymore (Kadri is off the table now, shoulda took him in the summer when you could).

Long story short, Gillis is overplaying his hand. He's lucky he inherited a core built by Burke/Nonis or his team wouldn't be as good as it is.

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