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Райан О'Рейли: In Soviet Ontario Offer Sheets Sign You; Rayan's 3rd Thread

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02-04-2013, 01:29 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Their obstinate stance has nothing to do with the "new market realities" as Allan Muir put it. It's just them playing hardball with a holdout like they've done in the past. Don't think they're trying to defend market integrity.

SURELY there's some middle ground to be had here. Until they come out and say otherwise (and they won't because they NEVER communicate with us) I'll believe it's them who refuse to budge.
After hearing Meehan speak to the media quite a bit about these longer second contracts to big name being a new norm for the market place, it's clear that this is is about clashing philosophies on some level.

Agents want long big contracts for players coming off ELCs. Avs are a team that prefers shorter contracts. Seeing as how Avs reportedly is offering a lower annual salary when they buy a UFA year, it's clear that they really really want a two year deal here. I think they are digging in as much when it comes to term as they do when it comes to salary.

Sherman have never given a player more than four years and that's for UFA years (EJ, Jones, Parenteau and Hejda).

I guess after Meehan & Co folding their hand on the river when it came to the Subban and del Zotto contracts, it has emboldened Avs here.

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02-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Missing the point.

/beat dead horse about inflationary contracts
Inflationary to what? All those $5M+ contracts we've paid out in the past 4 years? Which is a total of 2 (Stastny/Smyth). Those contracts really hurt us - maybe only in that we had to keep Stastny's to meet the cap floor.


Oh wait...that's right...I forgot all you guys are now satisfied with tanking another 3 years. The rebuild has stretched from 2 years to 6-7 years, right?

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02-04-2013, 01:39 PM
  #378
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Oh wait...that's right...I forgot all you guys are now satisfied with tanking another 3 years. The rebuild has stretched from 2 years to 6-7 years, right?
If ROR is whats keeping this team from being a lottery pick we have a lot more issues than just his contract.

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02-04-2013, 01:41 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Bonzai12 View Post
Inflationary to what? All those $5M+ contracts we've paid out in the past 4 years? Which is a total of 2 (Stastny/Smyth). Those contracts really hurt us - maybe only in that we had to keep Stastny's to meet the cap floor.


Oh wait...that's right...I forgot all you guys are now satisfied with tanking another 3 years. The rebuild has stretched from 2 years to 6-7 years, right?
I guess you eat all the candy you want, and worry about cavities later

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02-04-2013, 01:47 PM
  #380
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Inflationary to what? All those $5M+ contracts we've paid out in the past 4 years? Which is a total of 2 (Stastny/Smyth). Those contracts really hurt us - maybe only in that we had to keep Stastny's to meet the cap floor.


Oh wait...that's right...I forgot all you guys are now satisfied with tanking another 3 years. The rebuild has stretched from 2 years to 6-7 years, right?
You're making no sense. What on earth does wanting to sign players to good contracts have to do with tanking?

The reason you want players on good contracts is because it's easier to get future players on good contracts. If you're overpaying O'Reilly after what he has done here, you're inviting trouble with future RFAs.

Avs haven't been unreasonable here. They've been fair to every RFA we have signed and they have been fair to O'Reilly.

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02-04-2013, 02:02 PM
  #381
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if you use this logic it just means players will always get their own way by holding out until the other party gives. We don't even know the numbers. Obviously the numbers are off between sides but nobody knows for sure what those numbers are.

There's obviously a lot more to this than a few dollars
Maybe the Avs can start their own tradition of mini lockouts, where one or two players lock themselves out each year demanding a bigger piece of the pie. Wouldn't that just be fantastic?

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02-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #382
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Maybe the Avs can start their own tradition of mini lockouts, where one or two players lock themselves out each year demanding a bigger piece of the pie. Wouldn't that just be fantastic?
The thing that irritates me the most about this whole situation is that its a direct microcosm of the lockout.

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02-04-2013, 02:28 PM
  #383
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Some Leaf blog offer sheet comedy.

Highlights:

Because O'Reilly had the same PPG as a 20 year old as Getzlaf, Spezza and others, he's a first line forward going forward.

Creating an $6M cap hit offer sheet paying O'Reilly almost $15M in signing bonus now and this summer.

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02-04-2013, 02:49 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Some Leaf blog offer sheet comedy.

Highlights:

Because O'Reilly had the same PPG as a 20 year old as Getzlaf, Spezza and others, he's a first line forward going forward.

Creating an $6M cap hit offer sheet paying O'Reilly almost $15M in signing bonus now and this summer.
Cheers for the laugh

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02-04-2013, 02:52 PM
  #385
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Some ...
And reading the comments, "If the Leafs traded, than I would imagine a Draft Pick (1st? and/or 2nd?) + Bozak for Rielly"

Well at least he had the "and" there....

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02-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #386
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I guess I don't understand how Duchene was pampered last year.
If anything, it was the exact opposite of that. Sacco treated Duchene like crap. O'Reilly got more ice time, he played with the team's best winger, they put him in every important situation, etc.

If this is true (which I'm not sure about), O'Reilly comes off looking pretty bad. Both guys said they were friends before they even got drafted by the Avs and you have Duchene saying O'Reilly is a big part of the team and he hopes this gets settles soon so they can have him back. Meanwhile O'Reilly is upset because he feels Duchene gets treated better than him? Again, I don't know if that's how he actually feels but hopefully this gets settled soon.

I'm guessing it's not intended that way and I'm not going to get emotional and start bashing O'Reilly because of it but every time TPS posts something about how O'Reilly feels or what his demands are, it just makes O'Reilly and his people come off as sensitive little *****es.

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02-04-2013, 03:27 PM
  #387
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If anything, it was the exact opposite of that. Sacco treated Duchene like crap. O'Reilly got more ice time, he played with the team's best winger, they put him in every important situation, etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again... how Joe Sacco and Greg Sherman value players is very different. There are players that Sacco loves that management "tolerate" but do not value the same as he does. Vice versa, there are guys that management adore and see other qualities in that Sacco does not value. There's good and bad, but let's just always be clear that the organization's overall perception of players is not consistent from top to bottom.

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02-04-2013, 03:29 PM
  #388
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If anything, it was the exact opposite of that. Sacco treated Duchene like crap. O'Reilly got more ice time, he played with the team's best winger, they put him in every important situation, etc.

If this is true (which I'm not sure about), O'Reilly comes off looking pretty bad. Both guys said they were friends before they even got drafted by the Avs and you have Duchene saying O'Reilly is a big part of the team and he hopes this gets settles soon so they can have him back. Meanwhile O'Reilly is upset because he feels Duchene gets treated better than him? Again, I don't know if that's how he actually feels but hopefully this gets settled soon.

I'm guessing it's not intended that way and I'm not going to get emotional and start bashing O'Reilly because of it but every time TPS posts something about how O'Reilly feels or what his demands are, it just makes O'Reilly and his people come off as sensitive little *****es.
Funny TPS is basically making O'Reilly look worse with his posts.

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02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
  #389
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O'Reilly is pretty much indirectly stating:

His happiness will come at the expense at either Stastny or Duchene's job/spot. There is no way he can't know that his salary demands wont impact the others' places with the Avs

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02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #390
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To be clear, the only thing I ever mentioned from O'Reilly's camp was "one of the best defensive forwards in the past 25 years" comment. That was line for line, with quotations around it. The Stastny/Duchene thing is my own opinion as suggested by me asking a question with it... re-read what I wrote if needed. However, let's not fool ourselves; past and present players are well aware of the coddling and influences for Stastny and Duchene that no other player on our team gets; not Hejduk, not EJ, not anybody.

Man... the sooner this is behind all of us, the better. I swear it's easier when they just trade my friends or let them walk; holdouts really **** with my emotions.

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02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #391
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I've said it before and I'll say it again... how Joe Sacco and Greg Sherman value players is very different. There are players that Sacco loves that management "tolerate" but do not value the same as he does. Vice versa, there are guys that management adore and see other qualities in that Sacco does not value. There's good and bad, but let's just always be clear that the organization's overall perception of players is not consistent from top to bottom.
This would make sense if they gave Duchene like a $5+ million contract. But they gave him a fair and cheap prove-yourself deal.

If oreilly thinks so highly of himself I don't see what's wrong with the short, fair deal and he can cash in in 2 years like Duchene.

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02-04-2013, 04:00 PM
  #392
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This would make sense if they gave Duchene like a $5+ million contract. But they gave him a fair and cheap prove-yourself deal.

If oreilly thinks so highly of himself I don't see what's wrong with the short, fair deal and he can cash in in 2 years like Duchene.
Kevin Weekes said on Hotstove (CBC rumor show) that the Avs still weren't sold on Duchene. The reason they weren't sold on Duchene was because he was a huge liability last season during our playoff drive. It was to the point that Sacco could barely put him on the ice because of all the awful turnovers. Duchene had to prove to the franchise that he is the player that they drafted. He worked hard in the off season and looks like the player that we saw his first 2 years, likely even better. I think most of the fans have looked at Duchene's performance this season and thought, well if we get this output for 3.5, then how in the world can ROR be asking for more. But when they gave it to Duchene they could have been paying the turnover machine from last season 3.5 mill. ROR has steadily improved and was an integral part of the team last season.

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02-04-2013, 04:17 PM
  #393
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Dater said in his last podcast that O'Reilly's side was hurt that Landeskog got the captaincy.
He also mentioned that O'Reilly's representatives compared him to Evander Kane and the contract he got and that the Avs pointed out his -1 and compared it with Lando's +20 (= Lando lifted O'Reilly, instead of other way around).
Dater didn't speculate these things, he said them as truth.
I don't know if anybody mentioned this yet, but since I commented on it, and so did a lot of other people, it should be clarified that Dater didn't say O'Reilly's side was hurt. I just listened to the podcast, and what he said was that people had speculated (i.e. people like us here) that the captaincy might have played a part, and that even some of the fans on O'Reilly's side had floated this idea as well. He was just trying to generate discussion, not imparting some inside information.

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02-04-2013, 04:24 PM
  #394
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I don't know if anybody mentioned this yet, but since I commented on it, and so did a lot of other people, it should be clarified that Dater didn't say O'Reilly's side was hurt. I just listened to the podcast, and what he said was that people had speculated (i.e. people like us here) that the captaincy might have played a part, and that even some of the fans on O'Reilly's side had floated this idea as well. He was just trying to generate discussion, not imparting some inside information.
Ah good ole telephone game misinformation...1 person says something, it gets passed through 3 people and all of a sudden it's nothing at all like what was said. Love it.

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02-04-2013, 04:25 PM
  #395
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To be clear, the only thing I ever mentioned from O'Reilly's camp was "one of the best defensive forwards in the past 25 years" comment. That was line for line, with quotations around it. The Stastny/Duchene thing is my own opinion as suggested by me asking a question with it... re-read what I wrote if needed. However, let's not fool ourselves; past and present players are well aware of the coddling and influences for Stastny and Duchene that no other player on our team gets; not Hejduk, not EJ, not anybody.

Man... the sooner this is behind all of us, the better. I swear it's easier when they just trade my friends or let them walk; holdouts really **** with my emotions.
What do you mean by coddling though? Are you referring to something internal that we can't see? All teams coddle their star players, and hopeful franchise players to some extent. All players all know that, I can't imagine that would be an issue.

Stastny was the teams best player for a while, and was/is relied upon to be one of the top players on this team. Duchene was the 3rd overall hopeful franchise replacement for Sakic, who has also been shifted around all over the place with linemates, moved to the wing, benched, and also the same guy that came back to play 20 games on one leg to try and help the team make the playoffs, and also was asked to take a smaller bridge deal to prove what he can do.

I don't see much coddling in there. I think Ryan's hurt feelings are rubbing off on you a bit. Which is more or less normal if you're friends.

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02-04-2013, 04:31 PM
  #396
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Ah good ole telephone game misinformation...1 person says something, it gets passed through 3 people and all of a sudden it's nothing at all like what was said. Love it.
Ryan O'Reilly refuses to sign because Greg Sherman said "O'Reilly will crack any minute. Purple monkey dishwasher".

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02-04-2013, 04:54 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I don't know if anybody mentioned this yet, but since I commented on it, and so did a lot of other people, it should be clarified that Dater didn't say O'Reilly's side was hurt. I just listened to the podcast, and what he said was that people had speculated (i.e. people like us here) that the captaincy might have played a part, and that even some of the fans on O'Reilly's side had floated this idea as well. He was just trying to generate discussion, not imparting some inside information.
His podcasts are usually quite horrible to listen to so I won't listen to it again, but you're assertion might be correct.
I might have been misled by the "O'Reilly side had floated this idea" and not heard that he was talking about the fans. (or something like that)

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02-04-2013, 04:56 PM
  #398
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I don't mind that they didn't give the captaincy to O'Reilly, I do mind that they gave it to a teenager after his rookie season. The last team to do that was Tampa Bay, and they ended up regretting it.

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02-04-2013, 04:59 PM
  #399
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I don't mind that they didn't give the captaincy to O'Reilly, I do mind that they gave it to a teenager after his rookie season. The last team to do that was Tampa Bay, and they ended up regretting it.


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02-04-2013, 05:04 PM
  #400
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The idea that Duchene got coddled is laughable after last season. He got scratched. He really actually needed to, but they did it. That's no where near coddling to me.

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