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The Luongo Thread: Cory Who?

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:00 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
It came out on Hockeycentral at Noon when Millard was trying to argue that Luongo's a new and more relaxed guy. Kypreos was shouting him down and saying Luongo's just trying to sell himself to other teams by doing the Twitter stuff and that the real Luongo is the guy who gave an interview to ESPN then wouldn't walk two feet to give one to Sportsnet.

I'm not sure who the reporter was because Luongo has no problem doing interviews with Dan Murphy, for example.
Saw that too... Kypreos

Wonder if it had anything to do with the over blowing his comments & making him the bad guy?

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02-04-2013, 03:07 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
It came out on Hockeycentral at Noon when Millard was trying to argue that Luongo's a new and more relaxed guy. Kypreos was shouting him down and saying Luongo's just trying to sell himself to other teams by doing the Twitter stuff and that the real Luongo is the guy who gave an interview to ESPN then wouldn't walk two feet to give one to Sportsnet.

I'm not sure who the reporter was because Luongo has no problem doing interviews with Dan Murphy, for example.
Some of the speculation these media guys have is about as good as some of the garbage that is spewed around here.
"lets make a play for Louongo, the contract is a bit of a risk and we will have to move a core guy and a descent pick, he is clearly the best goalie out there though and will keep us in games most nights, we will make the playoffs so the owners will like that, oh and then Ill have the inside track on his fantasy football league strombone has".

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02-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #978
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Are we more likely to win with the Sedins? Yes. Welcome to what "our highest probability" or "window of opportunity" is. That is the intended use of the term. There are always exceptions and unforeseen results, although one could argue LA simply underachieved. Either way, this is irrelevant. You disliking the use of a "window" does not make it any less valid when used in the proper context.

It means your opportunity - that is, the probability of a cup run - is closing. Detroit is a prime example of this. They capitalized on their opportunity and now are considered "unlikely" to go the mile. Note I did not say impossible, just unlikely. And this would depend on the state of our roster when this elusive defenseman is brought in or Jensen scores thirty. Pacoiretty and Cole put up 30+ for Montreal, yet could not propel the team from dead last.

When did I say any of this was absolute? In fact, I acknowledged all of this guesswork based on probabilities and statistical likelihood, not objective fact. You have a poor habit of inferring favorably context, despite it never having existed.



No habit at all, I just respond to what I post. The post, not the poster, which is what you're doing here. What statistical likelihood are you talking about? If you had presented a stats based argument, that would actually move the discussion into a more objective analysis. But there are few stats to support the argument of a window. Unless you have some other data?


You keep talking about probabilities, but there are none to be had. Show me this probabilities?


You are guessing at the range of the best opportunity for the Canucks to win a cup. Guessing at the start, and the close of it. Guessing that it is tied to the Sedins. You have no idea what the future holds, or the impacts certain future moves may have. Nor the impact development may have. It's a one step analysis to say the window is tied to the prime years of the Sedins. For instance, many said the window closed after the run in 2011, yet you seem to think that we currently have a chance to get a cup? Why do you think this when they were seemingly at their best in 2011 and haven't looked the same since?




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Could be that Tarasenko kid who is outpacing our entire roster. They have a young core of impressive forwards and defense, ranging from good to borderline elite. Their opportunity is promising due to the age of the team and how well they are performing. In short, they created one. It took quite some time before St. Louis was even remotely relevant.


They created one through shrewd management and good drafting. Tarasenko was a mid-rounder. The only top5 pick on their team is Peitro. So that's a team that created a "window" without having many top draft assets. If a team like that can go from being irrelevant to being relevant and contending without relying on extraordinary assets falling their lap, is it conceivable that shrewd management and good drafting could _extend_ this team's "window"? Is that possible? If it is, then the "all-in" philosophy makes no sense in the face of that realization.



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Great. We differ because I prefer a better return to capitalise on the roster we have now. Schneider is undoubtedly talented but I also hold a high opinion of Gardiner and see quite a bit of potential in him. I view Schneider as an asset. If he can address our current needs better than Luongo (subjective), then I am content to move him.


Awesome. The only way to see who will be proven right is when the actual trade goes down. I look forward to our conversation then... I think there's no chance of Schneider being dealt. So I guess we'll see.



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Oh yes, being the best overall team as of this moment has to be killing them. I also must have been crushed nearly derailing our cup run. All that changed is Chicago does not have a ridiculously stacked roster. They remained competitive and currently have expectations of a repeat cup run.

Relevant only in how often they disappoint. When Thornton and Marleau run out of gas, they are liable to fade into a bubble team and may miss the playoffs entirely. Once again you are making assumptions. I do not advocate they sell the farm but consideration of using assets to make a cup run is not a poor decision. You seem to believe one asset can irrevocably doom a franchise.


CHI traded the current core of the WPG roster for pennies on the dollar. Think about that. They won, great, but those assets were not maximized. Not in the least. That's poor management of the assets, regardless of if they won or not.



I'm making assumptions saying a good team is good? SJ has been relevant for years now. It seems like fans like yourself make the assumption to think SJ is not relevant and will drop off a cliff anytime soon. People have been saying that for years about SJ, but there they are, competing every year.



Yes, I do think trading one asset can set a team back years, if that asset is a building block, which Schneider is. His name will be synonymous with the Canucks very soon here, like the Sedins have been. He's that important to the franchise. If you want to talk about untouchables, I list him right there with Hamhuis and the Sedins on this roster. So yes, I do believe trading him is a non-starter. Let's see who's right shall we?




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And? Not that I have heard a quote of him doing so. This means absolutely nothing. I'd scoff at it too if reporters mentioned it was the frequency they do.



Go for it, although I have never been against trading Luongo. I want a return that impacts our roster today, and am willing to deal whichever goaltender brings a better one.


And I'm saying Schneider won't be traded. I'm not open to trading either goalie, just Luongo. So let's see.

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
There ya go.

Gillis's intention was not to create a storm about Luongo by going to WSH? I'm not sure how it would have?


The question is still: What was he doing there if it weren't about Luongo?

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02-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #980
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I suppose if you're going to catch any game 'for fun' you could do a lot worse than checking out a game with Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin in it.

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02-04-2013, 03:22 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Gillis's intention was not to create a storm about Luongo by going to WSH? I'm not sure how it would have?


The question is still: What was he doing there if it weren't about Luongo?
Maybe he's meeting with Dave Nonis outside of the Toronto media frenzy that would be created if those two met in Toronto? I wonder if Kessel is coming to Vancouver???

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02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Maybe he's meeting with Dave Nonis outside of the Toronto media frenzy that would be created if those two met in Toronto? I wonder if Kessel is coming to Vancouver???
God I hope not.

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02-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #983
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God I hope not.
There is so much bias against Leafs' players, it's hard to even believe. If Kessel were coming here then they might as well hand out the Cup right now because there is quite literally no other team that could compare.

The guy put up 9 playoff goals and 15 points in 15 games before he even turned 22. So tired of everyone discrediting him because of how awkward he is or because he got traded for Seguin.

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02-04-2013, 03:38 PM
  #984
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No kidding. Kessel would instantly become the best pure goal scorer on the team. Last time I checked we could use a little more offensive prowess.

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02-04-2013, 03:40 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
God I hope not.

All depends on the cost.

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02-04-2013, 03:46 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
There is so much bias against Leafs' players, it's hard to even believe. If Kessel were coming here then they might as well hand out the Cup right now because there is quite literally no other team that could compare.

The guy put up 9 playoff goals and 15 points in 15 games before he even turned 22. So tired of everyone discrediting him because of how awkward he is or because he got traded for Seguin.
And I did either of those in my post?

Sorry I don't share the same opinion as you but I don't think he has the grit to get it done in the Western Conference during the playoffs & would fade once the physicality got to be too much. I don't think he is a guy that will go to the paint or the dirty areas. He seems more of a perimeter player & IMO that won't help our playoff scoring... no matter how many points he put 5 season ago with the Bruins.

Then there is the issue of where do you put him in the line up? Put him with the Sedins & that line is as soft as butter. Put him on the 2nd & then you've got a line of 3 shooters with no one to distribute it! I don't find the "put him on a 3rd line" suggestions I've seen being anywhere close to feasible.

Could we flip him right away & get a player that DOES have grit & DOES go to the dirty areas? Sure but this isn't NHL 13... trades hardly ever work like that.

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02-04-2013, 03:47 PM
  #987
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Two posts above yours.
Thanks - and that's outstanding. Oh, Kypreos, you big lunk.

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02-04-2013, 03:47 PM
  #988
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@TSNRyanRishaug
Asked Luongo if opponents have been chirping him on ice about the situation “Not at all, a few have asked if I’d come play for their team”

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02-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #989
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@TSNRyanRishaug
Asked Luongo if opponents have been chirping him on ice about the situation “Not at all, a few have asked if I’d come play for their team”

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02-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #990
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And I did either of those in my post?

Sorry I don't share the same opinion as you but I don't think he has the grit to get it done in the Western Conference during the playoffs & would fade once the physicality got to be too much. I don't think he is a guy that will go to the paint or the dirty areas. He seems more of a perimeter player & IMO that won't help our playoff scoring... no matter how many points he put 5 season ago with the Bruins.

Then there is the issue of where do you put him in the line up? Put him with the Sedins & that line is as soft as butter. Put him on the 2nd & then you've got a line of 3 shooters with no one to distribute it! I don't find the "put him on a 3rd line" suggestions I've seen being anywhere close to feasible.

Could we flip him right away & get a player that DOES have grit & DOES go to the dirty areas? Sure but this isn't NHL 13... trades hardly ever work like that.
[mod edit] He's an excellent playmaker and a one-shot scorer, which is something we don't really have on our roster.



I couldn't care less whether he plays on the perimeter or not if it keeps resulting in 300+ shots and 30+ goals on a regular basis. This team needs more guys that can score with a wrister from 25+ feet out, as well as one-time it accurately.

The whole freaking reason Kessel can actually score in the playoffs is because he doesn't need to be near the net to bang in rebounds. He's happy sniping it from wherever you let him.


Last edited by Dado: 02-04-2013 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Deleted personal bit, rest is cool.
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02-04-2013, 04:02 PM
  #991
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Then there is the issue of where do you put him in the line up? Put him with the Sedins & that line is as soft as butter. Put him on the 2nd & then you've got a line of 3 shooters with no one to distribute it! I don't find the "put him on a 3rd line" suggestions I've seen being anywhere close to feasible.
I take it you didn't know he had 45 assists last season? Which was just outside the top-20 in terms of assists

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02-04-2013, 04:12 PM
  #992
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Saw that too... Kypreos

Wonder if it had anything to do with the over blowing his comments & making him the bad guy?
It probably has more to do with the fact that Nick Kypreos is an idiot.

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02-04-2013, 04:17 PM
  #993
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All depends on the cost.
Luongo for Kessel straight up?

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02-04-2013, 04:31 PM
  #994
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It will be a very say day if/when Lu leaves. I'm not sure Cory knows how bad it could get if things go sour with this team.

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02-04-2013, 04:34 PM
  #995
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You illustrate a complete lack of understanding of Kessel's game. He's an excellent playmaker and a one-shot scorer, which is something we don't really have on our roster.



I couldn't care less whether he plays on the perimeter or not if it keeps resulting in 300+ shots and 30+ goals on a regular basis. This team needs more guys that can score with a wrister from 25+ feet out, as well as one-time it accurately.

The whole freaking reason Kessel can actually score in the playoffs is because he doesn't need to be near the net to bang in rebounds. He's happy sniping it from wherever you let him.
He does have great playmaking skill (you have to to rack up 45 Assists last year) I just think he is more of a shoot first kind of guy, like the 2 other guys on our 2nd line. I mean look at Kesler! imo he is a great playmaker but has more of a shoot first mentality so his great playmaking ability gets wasted because he wants to shoot.

The grit factor is still the biggest issue for me. I don't think he could get it done in the West during a Cup run. Anytime I watch him I get the feeling the physicality makes him disappear completely, something that won't help in the post season.

There is so much shot blocking in the post season now a days that perimeter shots can be nearly impossible to get through & then you need that guy who has a lethal shot (cause he does) to go into the dirty areas to get that shot away. The West is so much more defensive minded then the East & that gets ramped up further in the post season.

Do you have any videos of his playoff scoring?

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02-04-2013, 04:36 PM
  #996
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It will be a very say day if/when Lu leaves. I'm not sure Cory knows how bad it could get if things go sour with this team.
If Lou gets traded we may as well kiss our chances at winning a cup in the next 10 years. Our time to win is now or next year. Luongo gives us that best chance in net.

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02-04-2013, 04:40 PM
  #997
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He does have great playmaking skill (you have to to rack up 45 Assists last year) I just think he is more of a shoot first kind of guy, like the 2 other guys on our 2nd line. I mean look at Kesler! imo he is a great playmaker but has more of a shoot first mentality so his great playmaking ability gets wasted because he wants to shoot.

The grit factor is still the biggest issue for me. I don't think he could get it done in the West during a Cup run. Anytime I watch him I get the feeling the physicality makes him disappear completely, something that won't help in the post season.

There is so much shot blocking in the post season now a days that perimeter shots can be nearly impossible to get through & then you need that guy who has a lethal shot (cause he does) to go into the dirty areas to get that shot away. The West is so much more defensive minded then the East & that gets ramped up further in the post season.

Do you have any videos of his playoff scoring?
Shot blocking is only relevant when you have no snipers. What makes guys like Kessel special is that they find those openings to get their shots through. This video has some of his playoff goals at the end:


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02-04-2013, 04:46 PM
  #998
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Luongo for Kessel straight up?
problem is we'd actually be taking back more salary than we're sending. if we could convince TML to keep 500k of Kessel's caphit I would do that deal (i.e. Luongo at 5.833m for Kessel at 4.9m)

shouldn't be a dealbreaker for TML when you take into account how much other elite goalies are being paid.

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02-04-2013, 04:47 PM
  #999
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problem is we'd actually be taking back more salary than we're sending. if we could convince TML to keep 500k of Kessel's caphit I would do that deal (i.e. Luongo at 5.833m for Kessel at 4.9m)

shouldn't be a dealbreaker for TML when you take into account how much other elite goalies are being paid.
If they're offering that deal (which they never should and never will) then you take it and run, extra salary or not. You can deal with disposing of Booth and Ballard afterwards.

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02-04-2013, 04:49 PM
  #1000
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Given Kessel's skill set, I have trouble seeing how we turn down a more or less straight swap for Luongo. As Tiranis has pointed out, he has specific abilities that are both highly desirable in the playoffs and more or less completely lacking from our current roster.

 
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