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GDT: AVES vs STARES - 7PM MST

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:50 PM
  #101
WarriorOfGandhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Someone should try to explain this Corsi stuff to me because whenever I look at it I just don't know what I'm looking at. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Or I'm an idiot. The shots for/against is easy enough.
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
It appears as though they take your shots for and subtract the shots against, and that is your Corsi. So if you are out there and the team gets more shots against than you do for, it is assumed by some that you are an inferior defender. Zone starts and quality of competition are needed to really make it useful. All these stats are good for people that don't watch the games or want to prove to other people that their opinion is right. Hmmmm, maybe I should start using advanced stats to back my arguments.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Corsi basically is just that. Shots for and shots against when you're on the ice. It's supposed to signify puck possession but it's quite flawed for many reasons.

First is obviously zone starts. O'Byrne and Zanon start most of their shifts in the defensive zone. That leads to shots against.

Secondly, we have no way of valuing quality of shots. Part of the reason Landeskog is a Corsi god is that he takes a lot of low percentage shots. I don't mind him doing that, but quite a few of them are shots just to go on a line change. Compare with Eberle who only shoots when he's in close in a good spot. His shots are 'worth' more Landeskog shots, since they have a completely different approach to shooting.

On one level Corsi/zone starts and all these things are interesting but they aren't the Rosetta Stone of hockey, unlocking a perfect understanding of the game. Sadly many followers of advanced hockey stats lack a basic understanding of how stats work so they tend to get carried away with them.

I like stats, but I think watching games tells you much more about teams and players. You never get context when just looking at stats.

/rant over.
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
This description is exactly why I hate it. Every single EJ thread turns into "he faces weak competition and is a 2nd pairing defender. This is a fact. I don't need to watch games because Corsi tells me." Guys like Eskimo and EvaUnitZero or whatever his name is live off it.

I never post advanced statistics, but I just posted what that guy had in the article because it was actually praising a Hunwick-EJ pairing, which is oddly surprising.
because Corsi encompasses blocked shots as well as shots that miss the net it can determine the balance of attempted scoring chances for and against whenever a player is on ice. The goal of every skater on the ice, whether its Crosby or Koci, is to create goals, and the only way to create goals is to take shots. It's valuable for an understanding of the flow of the game. Guys like Malkin post positive Corsi stats year after year while guys like Bolland who take the toughest minutes in the league get hammered. That doesn't mean Bolland is worse defensively than Malkin but it means that when Bolland is on the ice, it is more likely his team gives up a goal than scores it, a result of both his skills and his circumstance.

Like others said, you have to use zone starts and quality of competition to get an understanding of what Corsi means. Elliott posted the best Corsi on the Avs last season, but it was just as much an indication of his skill as it was the fact that he started 70% of his shifts in the offensive zone and rarely played against impact NHL players. As suggested above, any stat by itself doesn't mean much. A good Corsi doesn't indicate a good defensive player any more than Cheechoo's 56 goals indicated he was the best scorer in the game or Preissing at +40 indicated he was a non-pillow-soft player.

I don't think anyone would argue that watching players is the best way to determine their defensive (and offensive) value. Since that's impossible and subject players to human bias, however, advanced stats offer a lot of insight that the box score cannot.

If you have about an hour to read through it, I strongly recommend reading the entirety of this:
http://hockeyanalytics.com/2012/06/2...-usage-charts/

It outlines the value of Corsi when used in tandem with zone starts and quality of competition and goes through each team and each player. I've gone back to look at it quite frequently whenever I want a breakdown of how a player did last year. Their observations on the Avs are quite interesting. Anyone who was upset with McClement not being offered a better contract should take a gander. Their take on our boy Mitchell is also really interesting. And yes, it does suggest that EJ had only an "ok" year last season -- which I'd agree with without reading any statistical breakdown.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:52 PM
  #102
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Avs in blurberries today per moser

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:53 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hesher View Post
It would be funny if Hejduk scored and celebrated with the swim
Broken sternum, out for the season.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:53 PM
  #104
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Hopefully the guys are amped up and ready do go here for Duke.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post
Avs in blurberries today per moser
Yes!

I love the blueberries.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:57 PM
  #106
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Im calling Sgarbossa with the gwg who respectfully does the swim at center ice to honor the duke.

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02-04-2013, 08:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by S3rkie View Post
Im calling Sgarbossa with the gwg who respectfully does the swim at center ice to honor the duke.
If anybody is going to do the swim, it'd be Yakupov the next time he scores against us.

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02-04-2013, 08:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
It's not crap. Like any stat, including +/-, it has a context. But as always, no single stat defines a player. Not even goals/points.
I don't know everytime someone brings it up, I remember Corsi trying saying hunny was better than EJ. It's fine if you feel different but I'd rather watch the games and form my own opinion.

Quote:
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Yes!

I love the blueberries.
Me too!!

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Yes!

I love the blueberries.
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Me too!!
I hope you guys aren't being sarcastic because I like them too. I also think they're better than our other jerseys.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:10 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I don't know everytime someone brings it up, I remember Corsi trying saying hunny was better than EJ. It's fine if you feel different but I'd rather watch the games and form my own opinion.



Me too!!
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Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Yes!

I love the blueberries.
That makes 3 of us...go to know that there are others.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:12 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I hope you guys aren't being sarcastic because I like them too. I also think they're better than our other jerseys.
I'm not, I only have 1 Avs jersey and it is the Blueberry.

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02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I hope you guys aren't being sarcastic because I like them too. I also think they're better than our other jerseys.
I favor the "Road" White (should be the home) and then the Blue Alternates 2nd and then the "Home" Burgandy last.

I just like the infusion of the Blue, a color that has been dominant on the Avs' past jerseys (and a nice nod to the Quebec heritage perhaps?) but the blue on the Avs jerseys were also always sort of "looked over" in my opinion.

I like it a whole lot. I would actually like to see the Blue incorporated a lot more in a new Jersey scheme that will inevitably come out in the future (we can't keep the current scheme forever).

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:14 PM
  #113
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I don't dislike the blueberries, but the other thirds were better in my opinion.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:16 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I hope you guys aren't being sarcastic because I like them too. I also think they're better than our other jerseys.
I used to love our regular jersey colors back in the 90s but now days they feel kinda bland. The blue ones are nice though.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:17 PM
  #115
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avs got this game, hope hejduk gets a goal

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:18 PM
  #116
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All in on Dallas.

Edit: Guess not. Still have 60.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:19 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
I don't know everytime someone brings it up, I remember Corsi trying saying hunny was better than EJ. It's fine if you feel different but I'd rather watch the games and form my own opinion.
Sure. If you look at that stat and no others it may yield that. That's why I said no one stat defines a player, and that any stat has to be placed in context. I was corrected when I whined about EJ's deplorable +/- at the start of the season. It was bad, yes, but when you realized where some of those minuses came from (Hejda's crappy play, the record amount of empty netters the Avs gave up last season) it wasn't as bad as it appeared.

The only stats I view very warily are ones like hits, takeaways/giveaways, etc. Not because of the stats themselves, but because they're measured so arbitrarily...again though, it just has to be taken in context. I'm confident Cal Clutterbuck is one of the better hitters in the league, and Ryan O'Reilly is one of the better players in the league in takeaways, but it's highly unlikely that every one of those respective stats measured was legit.

I highly recommend behindthenet.ca, they always put together some very interesting metrics to look at.

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02-04-2013, 08:19 PM
  #118
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The blueberrys are are the best jerseys in the Avs current rotation.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:22 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Colorado Sports Fan View Post
The blueberrys are are the best jerseys in the Avs current rotation.
Agreed. Gonna buy me a varly one.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:22 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalancheFan19 View Post
I don't dislike the blueberries, but the other thirds were better in my opinion.
Those were awesome and my favorite of the avs jerseys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Sports Fan View Post
The blueberrys are are the best jerseys in the Avs current rotation.
Yeah, by far too.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:33 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Jeff Shantz?
Duchene with the beard looks like he got put through the face fat booth app because he's got chubby little cheeks.

I'm predicting a high scoring game today

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:36 PM
  #122
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I'm predicting a high scoring game today

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:41 PM
  #123
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For those of you who think the joke is no longer funny, come at me bro!

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #124
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I'm usually positive about Avs chances to win, but this has all the signs of a big pile of Avapoo. 'Huge W' tweet from the captain, new found confidence. Ugh.

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Old
02-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I doubt we'll get to see the pregame ceremony for Hejduk since it's a NBC game. Hopefully they'll post a video of it on the Avs website.
For us in Canada the game is on TSN , they usually shows ceremonies for important player. Last week , they showed Vincent Lecavalier's night .

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