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Old
02-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
No, Slovakia definitely isn't "covered". Košice (at least) need to join the KHL, too -- it's that simple.
Their arena doesn't meet new requirements for new teams -at least 9000 seats. This rule is not yet in place, but by the time Kosice applies it will be.

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02-03-2013, 03:06 PM
  #402
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I hope not. Remember that Slovan joining the KHL was a surprise announcement made in the spring of 2012. I'm hoping for another surprise announcement, regarding Košice, in the spring of 2013. I'm just hoping they're quietly working in the background to get it done. No need to trumpet it to the media.

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02-03-2013, 03:17 PM
  #403
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Didn't Kosice fans made fun of Slovan for joining KHL, before the start of the season? What's with the sudden change of heart? I understand that you're missing the whole rivalry thing and I guess you're looking forward to bashing Kosice for not making playoffs and stuff like that, but wouldn't there be disadvantages for your favorite team? Watering down of the sponsorship and viewership?

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02-03-2013, 03:39 PM
  #404
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Their arena doesn't meet new requirements for new teams -at least 9000 seats. This rule is not yet in place, but by the time Kosice applies it will be.
The arena in Kosice would be one of the best in the whole KHL. Also I guess there are alot of fans in that town aswell. And who cares about rules. Putin wants Kosice to join the KHL. How do i know that? Cause I can feel alot of positive energy

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02-03-2013, 03:40 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
The arena in Kosice would be one of the best in the whole KHL.
Are you kidding? It won't be even in top10.

Btw Medvedev wants them to join GETL. There is some disturbance in the force.


Last edited by ult: 02-03-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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02-03-2013, 06:48 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Didn't Kosice fans made fun of Slovan for joining KHL, before the start of the season? What's with the sudden change of heart? I understand that you're missing the whole rivalry thing and I guess you're looking forward to bashing Kosice for not making playoffs and stuff like that, but wouldn't there be disadvantages for your favorite team? Watering down of the sponsorship and viewership?
No, I can only see positives. I know that from the giant Russia, Slovakia seems microscopic and that including 2 Slovak teams in the KHL might seem pointless, but Eastern Slovakia is really a quite separate region from Bratislava in the Slovak south-west, culturally and in other respects. It would make perfect sense to have both of those regions represented in the KHL. Another distinct Slovak region is Central Slovakia (the current Slovak league leader Zvolen is the best hockey team from there), but we currently lack a KHL-ready hockey arena in Central Slovakia, as well as in Slovakia's "hockey metropolis" Trenčín in the north-west, home of the Hossa brothers, Gáborík, Chára, Demitra and many other Slovak stars. Yeah, many fans from those other Slovak regions are no doubt rooting for Slovan these days, but it will never be "their own team" proper. Slovan Bratislava is not the Slovak national team, although the two currently share many players.

Similarly, there are 2 distinct regions in the Czech Republic: Bohemia and Moravia. (Moravia lies in between Bohemia and Slovakia; the Moravian capital is Brno.) I can guarantee you, ult, that even if Sparta Prague joined the KHL instead of the "artificial" Lev Prague, hockey fans from Moravia would never fully get behind a KHL team located in Prague. Their teams are Kometa Brno (southern Moravia) and Vítkovice (northern Moravia), among others, and it will always remain that way.

Therefore, it would be fantastic to have a KHL division with teams like Sparta Prague, Kometa Brno, Slovan Bratislava, and HC Košice. Each of these 4 teams represents a very distinct region, so the internal rivalries would be amazing. Seen from afar from Russia, this might seem like needless duplication of teams from the same country, but it's not.

It's interesting to note that both Čada (Slovan coach) and Vůjtek (Slovak national team coach, former Yaroslavl coach) are, in fact, Moravian rather than "Czech" coaches. Čada was born in Brno (southern Moravia), while Vůjtek is from Vítkovice/Ostrava (northern Moravia). The relations between Moravians and Slovaks, as neighbours, have traditionally been warmer than between Slovaks and Czechs proper (Czechs from Bohemia). In fact, in villages and regions close to the border between Moravia and Slovakia, the local dialects seem like a mixture of Czech and Slovak, instead of being either of the two languages.

I'm sure people in Russia have no idea about these regional differences and sensibilities. But they are very much relevant when it comes to supporting a hockey team. Teams with "Prague" or "Bratislava" in their name will never be supported in the same way as the Czech or Slovak national teams -- they won't succeed in getting the whole country behind them. At least not with the same intensity as the national teams can do it. Generally, hockey teams from capital cities tend to be unpopular in the rest of the country. I can see something similar on Russian hockey websites -- many Russian fans hurling insults at KHL teams located in Moscow or St. Petersburg.

As to the more remote future, Poland and Slovakia want to submit a joint candidacy for organizing the 2022 Winter Olympic Games. So maybe after Sochi 2014, we'll get to see Tatry 2022. (Tatry being the mountain range on the border between Slovakia and Poland.) Of course, if Slovakia is to co-organize the Olympics, at least one group of the Olympic hockey tournament would take place on Slovak soil. The Slovak Prime Minister has confirmed Slovakia is ready to build a new hockey arena for the Olympic hockey tournament. Poprad, the city at the foot of the Tatras, could be an ideal location. So, we may yet see a KHL return to Poprad in a more distant future, this time to Poprad's own team in a new arena.


Last edited by Faterson: 02-03-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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Old
02-03-2013, 07:21 PM
  #407
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Are you kidding? It won't be even in top10.

Btw Medvedev wants them to join GETL. There is some disturbance in the force.
It would be a top 10 arena. St Petersburg, Riga, Minsk, Bratislava, Prague, Omsk, Kazan and Lokomotiv got bigger arenas. Still I would argue that Steel Arena got a great design, good capacity and I bet alot of slovaks will support the team if they join the KHL. Its not all about capacity imo. Feks the arena in prague (not 02. Tipsport or whatever its called) is big, but also rly old. I would much rather have a brand new arena in Kosice, than old arenas from the cold war era.

edit: Negative thoughts are the path to the darkside of the force


Last edited by TollefsenFan: 02-03-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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02-03-2013, 07:34 PM
  #408
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my cents

1.I dont believe in this Olympics plan in Poland/Slovakia
2.Exclusivity of market. I heard Toronto Maple Leafs has exclusivity in region a only club in NHL. Right?? Why not the same with Slovan and KHL?

3.Why would KHL want Kosice as 2nd slovak club? You know, only a few free spots in KHL. I see bigger potential in Germany, Switzerland and even Poland.

4.Arena of Kosice. Yes, now would be one of best in KHL. But what about next 10 years? Are they ready to build new one? Clubs like Vityaz (small arena) will not play KHL forever.

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02-03-2013, 08:04 PM
  #409
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my cents

1.I dont believe in this Olympics plan in Poland/Slovakia
2.Exclusivity of market. I heard Toronto Maple Leafs has exclusivity in region a only club in NHL. Right?? Why not the same with Slovan and KHL?

3.Why would KHL want Kosice as 2nd slovak club? You know, only a few free spots in KHL. I see bigger potential in Germany, Switzerland and even Poland.

4.Arena of Kosice. Yes, now would be one of best in KHL. But what about next 10 years? Are they ready to build new one? Clubs like Vityaz (small arena) will not play KHL forever.
1. I agree

2. Slovan will benefit from having Kosice in the league. An arch rival in the east isnt bad for business. Just like the maple leafs need the rivalry with the habs.

3. Why? Slovakia got alot of KHLrs. They produce alot more quality players than Switzerland, Germany and Poland. The KHL must make sure that the top slovakian talents stay in europe and that they dosent move to junior hockey in NA. Slovakia and Czech rep are both big hockey powers. Dont forget that.

4. Hard to say. No1 can look into the future. Maybe they will build a new arena and maybe they wont. Hard to say rly.

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02-03-2013, 08:31 PM
  #410
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Vorky, there was this news only a few days ago (former NHLPA president interview) according to which the NHL is likely to expand to 32 teams soon. One of the expansion teams is supposed to be very close to Toronto. So Toronto definitely has no "exclusivity for the region" -- it may only appear that way.

Slovakia can be compared to Quebec. For many years, Quebec used to have 2 NHL teams, and similarly, Slovakia having at least 2 KHL teams would be reasonable. The only reason why the Quebec Nordiques are no longer in the NHL today, and are now known as the Colorado Avalanche, has to do with money, not geography or Quebec's hockey potential.

And yes, the analogy between Quebec and Slovakia holds in this respect, too: Slovakia is struggling economically, so if Košice do not join the KHL, it's not because they wouldn't be interested or because there wouldn't be enough players for the team. The only reason will be insufficient funding. The steelworks in Košice are still owned by U. S. Steel from Pittsburgh, although they reportedly wanted to sell them to the Shakhtar Donetsk owner in late 2012. That may no longer happen now. Perhaps the management from Pittsburgh has other worries to deal with these days than to sponsor a hockey team, when they're not even sure if they want to continue their business in Slovakia or not.

Even so, I remain optimistic and hope for a pleasant surprise announcement regarding Košice and the KHL, ideally this spring. Slovan joining the KHL came as a total surprise to many of us.

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02-03-2013, 08:39 PM
  #411
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2.Sponsors? West part of Slovakia is not Ontario and East part of Slovakia is not Quebeck (vice versa). I am speaking about bussiness, wages, population etc. Now sponsors can fund one KHL club and still are not able to collect only 10 mil euro. Lev Prague and Donbass have above 20 mil euro. How do you want to sponsor 2 KHL clubs in Slovakia if you dont have appropriate budget for one club? Yes, there are poor clubs in Russia as well, still playing KHL. But, it is another story. KHL is based on RSL, almost all (??) RSL clubs jumped to KHL. Khimik and Lada dont play KHL anymore. They had trouble with arena and budget. Why would KHL want euro clubs with budget and arena problems? Poprad was only a first step which was needed to establish KHL in Europe, not serious project. I can imagine KHL without Vityaz, Novokuznetsk one day.

An arch rival - yes, would be great. On the other hand Sparta Prague is rival as well. Lev and Sparta have the same ownership. Why did this owner decide for Sparta and not Slavia (more financial problems than Sparta)? What about rivalry Slavia-Slovan? Faterson can explain what is bigger rivarly, Slavia-Slovan or Slavia-Slovan. Call me crazy, but I think that there is plan to have Sparta in KHL. Not next season, not another but in future. Faterson´s arguments make sense. But what makes sense in KHL´s expansion? Why Lev Poprad? Any sense?

Medvedev said that he can imagine Kosice in KHL. I read his statement about Arab courties in KHL as well.

IMO KHL needs its euro clubs to be financially strong and attractive for players. Prague is such city, Bratislava as well (+ great history of Slovan). Zagreb, Milan, Gdansk - all great cities as I know. Is Kosice such city?

There are no infos about Kosice in KHL and never were. Your club can not join KHL if club´s management does not negotiate with KHL. Why would Medvedev hide info about Kosice´s negotiating if he said about some german, finnish etc clubs? Why not Kosice? Easy, there is no negotiation.

3.It is not about players, but about economy. I said about above. Ukraine does not have as good players as Slovakia or Czech rep. Who cares? Donbass is competitive. Only a few ukrainians? Sad, but it is profi-sport.

EDIT:
I know about this expansion.

Quote:
Slovakia can be compared to Quebec. For many years, Quebec used to have 2 NHL teams, and similarly, Slovakia having at least 2 KHL teams would be reasonable. The only reason why the Quebec Nordiques are no longer in the NHL today, and are now known as the Colorado Avalanche, has to do with money, not geography or Quebec's hockey potential.
yes, money is a reason why I doubt about Kosice joining KHL. Only hope for Kosice in my eyes is "širokorozchodná". I am not economist so dont know if it is "golden egg"


Last edited by vorky: 02-03-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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02-03-2013, 08:52 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
There are no infos about Kosice in KHL and never were. Your club can not join KHL if club´s management does not negotiate with KHL. Why would Medvedev hide info about Kosice´s negotiating if he said about some german, finnish etc clubs? Why not Kosice?
There was no such preliminary information about Slovan and the KHL, either. When it was announced, it was pretty much a done deal, only with formalities left to be settled. That's why I hope that negotiations between Košice and the KHL might be going on, without the media knowing about them. Why drag the public into such negotiations, raising the public's expectations, and then perhaps disappoining the fans? It's better to do it the way Slovan did it -- the news was only made public when it was 95% certain Slovan would get the approval to join the KHL.

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02-03-2013, 09:25 PM
  #413
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agree with preliminary information.

Now is time when clubs apply to join next season. Gdansk did it. Next week are negotiations in Moscow. March - inspection in Poland. Late april/early May - joining or not. This technicalities takes time. It is not so easy.

Slovan asked its fans about future of club - czech league, slovak league, EBEL, KHL. I googled, it was late november 2011. Correct me if I am wrong. It was a "signal".

There was a "signal" that some Prague club to join KHL in january 2012. You know, creation of czech based company with Musil as CEO.

What is happening now in Kosice? No changes in ownership, no info in media, discussions. Am I wrong? No "singal" for me.

Maybe I missed some infos and I am wrong with Kosice. I dont believe Kosice will play KHL next season.

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02-03-2013, 09:59 PM
  #414
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Vorky, there was this news only a few days ago (former NHLPA president interview) according to which the NHL is likely to expand to 32 teams soon. One of the expansion teams is supposed to be very close to Toronto. So Toronto definitely has no "exclusivity for the region" -- it may only appear that way.
Bill Daly refuted those claims by Paul Kelly. Check the Business of Hockey section for the thread. And Yes, Toronto does have a say in the Ontario area.

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02-04-2013, 12:05 AM
  #415
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Quebec, 8 million. Ontario 12 million. Slovakia 5.5 million and far poorer. I don't know if it would be possible given the costs of the KHL for two teams

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02-04-2013, 12:19 AM
  #416
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I have never compared Slovakia to Ontario (that was Vorky). You could more reasonably compare Ontario to the Czech Republic, I think.

The difference between a 5.5 million and 8 million population is negligible in this context. Do you think U. S. Steel of Pittsburgh do not have the wherewithal to be the principal sponsors of a KHL team in the city where they operate a giant enterprise? Sure they could do it. The question only is, whether they are interested enough in such a project or not. Considering they, by all appearances, intended to sell the Košice steelworks to Ukrainian oligarchs only a couple of months ago, hockey is probably not their top priority these days.

Still, I remain an optimist. If the management of the Košice steelworks decides to fund a KHL team, they can definitely do it. Regardless of whether 5 million or 10 million people live in Slovakia. Remember we already have two "Metallurgs" and a "Severstal" in the KHL; HC Košice would merely be a Slovak variation of that hockey/business model.


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02-04-2013, 01:49 AM
  #417
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I don't mind joining Slovac and Czech clubs the KHL. These are countries with rich hockey traditions and certainly would contribute, for example like Dinamo Riga (not this season but overall).

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02-04-2013, 07:45 AM
  #418
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IMO czech & slovak teams are some some kind of uncut diamonds for the khl.

next year when ska/lok/cska/dynamo wont have some some big heavyweight nhl-players in their rows (reg. season) LEV/SLOVAN will be much higher ranked in the eastern conf.

now we will see what will happen in the playoffs.

sounds crazy, but i wish that either LEV or SLOVAN will raise the cup this year.
good luck at this point

i think more czech/slovak teams are essential when the khl wants to grow.
them folks needs a separate division. so at leats 3 or 4 please

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02-04-2013, 07:39 PM
  #419
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Alaska?

Would a KHL team in Alaska work? The league doesn't seem to mind too much about time zone differences or distances given how large their footprint already is, and they need some more teams in the further East areas to somewhat limit Khabarovsk's travel. KHL's attendances aren't through the roofs anyway either.

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02-04-2013, 09:08 PM
  #420
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Would a KHL team in Alaska work? The league doesn't seem to mind too much about time zone differences or distances given how large their footprint already is, and they need some more teams in the further East areas to somewhat limit Khabarovsk's travel. KHL's attendances aren't through the roofs anyway either.
I think it would likely be able to work from a time zone perspective, but is there really a population that would follow the team in Alaska? I really think it'd be hard to sell the KHL to Americans.

If the KHL wants to create a division in the far east, they should be looking to massive, major cities like Tokyo, Seoul and Hong Kong where there are a lot of billionaires with money to play with. Adding a team in each of those cities and putting another in Vladivostok would create a capable 'far east' division and would help to expand and develop hockey in Asia.

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02-04-2013, 09:20 PM
  #421
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I think it would likely be able to work from a time zone perspective, but is there really a population that would follow the team in Alaska? I really think it'd be hard to sell the KHL to Americans.

If the KHL wants to create a division in the far east, they should be looking to massive, major cities like Tokyo, Seoul and Hong Kong where there are a lot of billionaires with money to play with. Adding a team in each of those cities and putting another in Vladivostok would create a capable 'far east' division and would help to expand and develop hockey in Asia.
The Alaska Aces get 4,777 per game, that wouldn't be the worst in the KHL, would it? I think people in Alaska wouldn't mind seeing a higher quality game, they are kinda isolated from the rest of the US anyway.

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02-04-2013, 10:07 PM
  #422
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cool idea

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02-04-2013, 11:56 PM
  #423
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nightmare for KHL players. I'm not sure which way Slovan Bratislava or Lev Prague would choose to get there: over Atlantic ocean or Pacific.


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02-05-2013, 05:32 AM
  #424
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The Alaska Aces get 4,777 per game, that wouldn't be the worst in the KHL, would it? I think people in Alaska wouldn't mind seeing a higher quality game, they are kinda isolated from the rest of the US anyway.
Would be among the worst, bottom 3.

But almost no KHL team makes money (if any do). They run on a sponsorship model, and need big money owners willing to run the team in the red pretty far, indefinitely. It is a different model from NA sports. Not too mention the fact that Anchorage is half the size of Khabarovsk and the logistics of the team (closest team is Khabarovsk at 4700km, compared to Khabarovsk to Moscow, already a stupid amount of distance at 6100km) this has basically 0 chance, IMO.

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02-05-2013, 06:51 AM
  #425
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Would be among the worst, bottom 3.

But almost no KHL team makes money (if any do). They run on a sponsorship model, and need big money owners willing to run the team in the red pretty far, indefinitely. It is a different model from NA sports. Not too mention the fact that Anchorage is half the size of Khabarovsk and the logistics of the team (closest team is Khabarovsk at 4700km, compared to Khabarovsk to Moscow, already a stupid amount of distance at 6100km) this has basically 0 chance, IMO.
Would it really? League average was still below 6K last year, so they wouldn't be that far behind.

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