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Will Flyers pursue Iginla?

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02-04-2013, 05:32 PM
  #51
SheasRebellion6
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
I don't think Iginla is what this team needs, though his experience would be helpful.

People already talking about tanking disgust me, though
I agree some experience would be nice especially with Kimmo on his way out.

There is really nothing we can do to make us a contender right now that won't jeopardize our future.

Our best bet is to build for the future.

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02-04-2013, 05:35 PM
  #52
TherapyforGlencross
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Flames fan here. What most Flames fan will say is that it would cost you around something like a 1st + decent prospect.

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02-04-2013, 05:36 PM
  #53
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Flames fan here. What most Flames fan will say is that it would cost you around something like a 1st + decent prospect.
How about top prospect and 2nd rounder?

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02-04-2013, 05:37 PM
  #54
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How about top prospect and 2nd rounder?
Who would be considered a top prospect in the Flyers organization? Scott Laughton?

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02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
  #55
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Who would be considered a top prospect in the Flyers organization? Scott Laughton?
Nick Cousins also. Lead the OHL in scoring.

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02-04-2013, 05:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Nick Cousins also. Lead the OHL in scoring.
What are his advantages/disadvantages?


Honestly, now would be the time for a team to "pursue" Iginla. It would be because his trade value wouldn't be as high, unlike when trade deadline approaches. With that said, it's highly unlikely the Flames would trade him at this moment as the Flames are trying to compete for the playoffs. If the Flames aren't in the playoff mix come trade deadline, Iginla would most likely be on the table. I would not be surprised if a team overpays to get him at trade deadline.

Here are my thoughts as a Flames fan on Iginla:

1. Iginla isn't a powerforward anymore, as some like to believe. Iggy will stay pat at the blue line and wait for the puck to come to him. He will proceed to shoot the puck or pass it. Iginla also does not fight as often as he had before.

2. From what I and other Flames fans believe, Iginla does not seem to buy into coaches system. However, this may be because we had Brent Sutter as coach.

3. Do not be alarmed at Iginla's stats so far this season, as they are misleading. Iginla has hit many posts this season and has done very well. He has just been unlucky.

4. Iginla would be a perfect fit on the first line. He would be a great mentor for Giroux, as Iggy has been a captain for 8 years or so (since the 2003-2004 season). Iginla is a great leader.

5. Iginla has an amazing wristshot.

6. I would recommend not putting him in the shootout lineup, as all he will do is a wristshot from the slot.


Either way, Iginla will cost a good amount, as he has been in CAlgary for his whole career; plus, he still has 3-4 more years on him.

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02-04-2013, 05:56 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
See, you and I share a different view of what being a fan is. My idea of being a fan is wanting what is best for my team. My idea of what is best for the team is to win a Stanley Cup. Your idea appears to maybe make the playoffs. If I believe that getting a high first round pick would better achieve my goal of getting the Stanley Cup, then as a fan I can pull for my team to lose because in the long run it is the best option. If you just want to make the playoffs, without caring about winning a Cup anytime in the next ten years then your approach is better. Just as you see me as a "lame fan" I see you as a naive and counter productive one. I see your approach as one that will ensure the team is mired in mediocrity for a long time. Each year you will have to make more and more desperate moves just to make the playoffs. Most, if not all, of recent Cup winners have developed many of their own players. To try and NOT go this route does not make sense, if you want to win a Cup.

I will pull against my team if I think it is in their long term best interest.
That might be reasonable if you were growing tomatoes in a perfectly atmosphere-controlled laboratory environment, instead of trying to win a professional sports trophy at the highest levels of athletic and business competitiveness complete with all the extreme highs and lows of chance that come with that territory.

And the bigger rub is you'd have to root for those tomatoes to succeed in a very sad and bloodless way.

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02-04-2013, 06:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
That might be reasonable if you were growing tomatoes in a perfectly atmosphere-controlled laboratory environment, instead of trying to win a professional sports trophy at the highest levels of athletic and business competitiveness complete with all the extreme highs and lows of chance that come with that territory.

And the bigger rub is you'd have to root for those tomatoes to succeed in a very sad and bloodless way.
So - aside from all of the er,...horticulture advice..., you suggest that the way to go is to continally trade young assests for big contract short term players to try and reach the playoffs each year?

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02-04-2013, 06:49 PM
  #59
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If we can fit him this year without moving any significant peices, basically roster players, (No our 1st Laughton and Cousins are not significant.) I'm all for this move as opposed to waiting for next years off season and hoping Perry picks us over the other 29 teams in the league.

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02-04-2013, 06:52 PM
  #60
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My point is I think it's naive to claim to have figured out a foolproof formula that's sure to pay off. Except for the part about rooting for your team to lose. That's a guaranteed poison payoff for the soul month by month and season by season. I don't think I could even enjoy a Cup payoff after going through that, if one actually happened. But that's just me.

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02-04-2013, 07:15 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
My point is I think it's naive to claim to have figured out a foolproof formula that's sure to pay off. Except for the part about rooting for your team to lose. That's a guaranteed poison payoff for the soul month by month and season by season. I don't think I could even enjoy a Cup payoff after going through that, if one actually happened. But that's just me.
Well, you definitely couldn't be a Penguins fan!

I agree that there is no single formula, but I try to look at the past and probability. Other than the Penguins, who I think are in a unique position due to their long term stinkiness between 2002 and 2006 and their "winning" the lottery for Crosby, it seems that the teams that have won have had a plethora of scoring - the Bruins didn't have a single player with more than 70 points when they won and they have strong defense. I think of Seabrook, Keith, Chara, Doughty. And of course they had solid goaltending.

So I would try to mimic that model - have many scoring possiblities with at least one solid d-man and goaltending.

In order to diversify scoring, you need to keep contracts low - so I don't want to add an Iginla or player like that because his contract will hurt longterm (if they could even sign him after the season). I actually think the Flyers forwards are fine. Sure, they may need some time - they certainly need to get healthy before any long term diagnosis can be made. How can we really know the offense without Hartnell, and now without Simmonds and with a recovering Briere?

The defense is where I think the team is screwed. All of these teams that won has a solid defensemen. We have Kimmo - who is good - but he is old and not something to build around long term. Other than that, we have no real depth and no solid prospects.

Plus each of the last 4 teams have had a pick in the top 3 within 3 years of winning the Cup. Staal for Pittsburgh, Kane and Toews for Chicago, Seguin for Boston, Doughty for LA.

Anyway, this is my thinking as to why I wouldn't take Iginla and why I wouldn't mind stinking.

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02-04-2013, 07:30 PM
  #62
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Can we remember that G needs to be paid shortly. Not to mention if Kimmo doesn't retire we have bigger issues to worry about on the blue line. I wouldn't be to quick to get a deal done for this season that causes problems for us in a full season.

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02-04-2013, 07:40 PM
  #63
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As a Flyer fan that is here in Calgary, I say no thank you for Iggy...his best days are past and I would dread us giving up our youth for this aging declining star....

And this isn't what we need anyways.......and the chances are even if we Iggy, he would likely just return to Calgary and sign with them in the off season....A big fat no to this idea!

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02-04-2013, 07:41 PM
  #64
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Just a bad move overall, this team isn't ready. Sure we can be a playoff team, but even with Iginla were nothing more then that most likely. Maybe a couple years down the road this might be a different story, but at that point who knows what he would be able to offer and at that point what we give away have more value at that time.

If Homer does this, I would be pretty baffled, and like most pretty upset. We all want a cup, but moves like this aren't the answer.

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02-04-2013, 07:45 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
People already talking about tanking disgust me, though.
Meh, I'm indifferent to such opinions. Personally, I wouldn't ever tank, but whatever. The one thing that does come close to disgust is when/if the same people make fun of the Pens and their fans. Because they're basically making fun of themselves and such unwitting stupidity is just disgusting

edit: I will say this, though. You know there's something wrong with the league when you have a team looking like it might not make the playoffs and (some of) their fans thinking that's a reason to tank.


Last edited by Ryker: 02-04-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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02-04-2013, 07:58 PM
  #66
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Meh, I'm indifferent to such opinions. Personally, I wouldn't ever tank, but whatever. The one thing that does come close to disgust is when/if the same people make fun of the Pens and their fans. Because they're basically making fun of themselves and such unwitting stupidity is just disgusting

edit: I will say this, though. You know there's something wrong with the league when you have a team looking like it might not make the playoffs and (some of) their fans thinking that's a reason to tank.
I guess I would have to qualify my statement about tanking - I would say I am not opposed to letting the team's course continue. I don't think I would respect a team for trying to lose on the ice, but I wouldn't mind an owner who tried to set the team up for a better draft pick by gaining from other team's playoff push trades. Like what the Flyers did with Forsberg back in 2007.

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02-04-2013, 10:06 PM
  #67
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No, we'd be giving up too much to get him, it'd atleast cost Laughton or the first rounder. And to be honest, I don't really think Iginla would be the piece to push us to a SC. This team is just not that good right now, we'll need a couple years for the young guys to start developing and becoming consistent.

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02-04-2013, 10:45 PM
  #68
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I'm paying 140 bucks for two tix to the Tampa game tomorrow b/c..yeah I want them to tank and suck. I watch practically every game b/c I want them to suck. The fact is they are pretty close to just sucking in reality for various reasons some of which are beyond their control like key player injuries.

Trading for an aging veteran like Iginla makes very little sense considering all the holes we have. The status quo of fighting through this and not making any knee-jerk moves that set out future back is called pragmatism...and keeping your powder dry.

It's painful to watch this turnover team right now but making the playoffs, while the goal of every team since you have to be in it to win it is still desirable and most teams make their revenue from playoffs, in the long run it's just best to just slog through this season and then in the offseason adjust accordingly. This whole lockout season had mulligan written all over it once we lost out on the free agent sweepstakes and had to resort to plan "whatever is left out there."

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02-04-2013, 10:52 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Trading for an aging veteran like Iginla makes very little sense considering all the holes we have. The status quo of fighting through this and not making any knee-jerk moves that set out future back is called pragmatism...and keeping your powder dry.
I don't think anyone was referring to that as being talking about tanking.

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02-04-2013, 10:54 PM
  #70
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I don't think anyone was referring to that as being talking about tanking.
No but the tanking comment was made within that same context...at least that is what I'm trying to clarify.

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02-05-2013, 06:42 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
See, you and I share a different view of what being a fan is. My idea of being a fan is wanting what is best for my team. My idea of what is best for the team is to win a Stanley Cup. Your idea appears to maybe make the playoffs. If I believe that getting a high first round pick would better achieve my goal of getting the Stanley Cup, then as a fan I can pull for my team to lose because in the long run it is the best option. If you just want to make the playoffs, without caring about winning a Cup anytime in the next ten years then your approach is better. Just as you see me as a "lame fan" I see you as a naive and counter productive one. I see your approach as one that will ensure the team is mired in mediocrity for a long time. Each year you will have to make more and more desperate moves just to make the playoffs. Most, if not all, of recent Cup winners have developed many of their own players. To try and NOT go this route does not make sense, if you want to win a Cup.

I will pull against my team if I think it is in their long term best interest.
You misunderstood me. My goal isn't to make the playoffs to make them, my goal is to have a shot at a cup by being in the playoffs. I still think this team can compete if healthy.

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02-05-2013, 06:56 AM
  #72
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You misunderstood me. My goal isn't to make the playoffs to make them, my goal is to have a shot at a cup by being in the playoffs. I still think this team can compete if healthy.


You think this team can compete if healthy? What about this team says championship? We haven't beaten a playoff quality team yet. We've gotten outhustled and outworked by teams that were on the 2nd leg of a back to back and we were on a couple days rest, we have no #1 defenseman, all of our sophomores are slumping, etc.

This team couldn't do anything in the playoffs last year and we've taken a clear step backwards by losing Jagr, Carle, JVR and replacing them w/ L. Schenn, Gervais, etc. And on top of all that, Lavy is still the coach, meaning that any team that plays any type of good playoff defense (NJ, NYR, etc.) will shut us down in 5 games or less guaranteed.

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02-05-2013, 07:34 AM
  #73
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Can we remember that G needs to be paid shortly. Not to mention if Kimmo doesn't retire we have bigger issues to worry about on the blue line. I wouldn't be to quick to get a deal done for this season that causes problems for us in a full season.
Iginla's not going to make $7M in his next contract.


Keep in mind that you can keep salary/gain cap space in trades. The Flyers couldn't trade for him today, but capgeek project that at the deadline, the could add ~$6.5M in cap space. It would be easily workable if both team and player wanted it to happen. And he's never had a center like Giroux to play with.

On top of that, if they were after Doan, there's no reason they wouldn't be after Iginla. It wouldn't be the first time they tried to get him.

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02-05-2013, 08:19 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I guess I would have to qualify my statement about tanking - I would say I am not opposed to letting the team's course continue. I don't think I would respect a team for trying to lose on the ice, but I wouldn't mind an owner who tried to set the team up for a better draft pick by gaining from other team's playoff push trades. Like what the Flyers did with Forsberg back in 2007.
This. You evaluate your team and do what's best. IMO, what's best for this team is to sell off pieces that won't be here in the long-term and may have value to other teams. The end result will probably be a poor on-ice product, so be it. Rather than send 2nd round picks for the Pavel Kubinas of the world, actually improve the future of the team long-term. They made a great first step by getting rid of two of their long-term contracts and getting multiple young players with, IMO, just as high, if not higher ceilings than the players they sent packing.

Approach Briere and Timonen about waiving their no trades and get something of value for them to expedite the rebuild.

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02-05-2013, 09:16 AM
  #75
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People think that Iginla will cost a 1st + a prospect at the deadline???

That's absolutely crazy. A 35+ player with 1 year left (at 7+ mil??) on his deal would NOT cost that much. Basically, if the Flames trade him they are doing it so they can get SOMETHING for him.

Flames are inevitably going to be looking at a total rebuild within the next 2-3 years. They have some pieces already in place...such as Baertschi.

Iginla would only be traded to a contender probably not in the West. The way things are looking for the Flyers, unless they get a nice win streak going we look like a .500 team.

If we are on the bubble at the deadline for a 5-8 playoff spot, I'd expect a move like this to be made. Iginla would probably be great with Giroux for a couple years.

This idea is actually not that crazy! Honestly, I think Iginla wants a cup and he's not gonna resign for a bottom-basement team for the rest of his career. He's carried the Flames for a number of years and the least they could do for him would be to trade him to a contender at the deadline.

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