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Hockey and drugs....post yer opinions.

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Old
12-10-2003, 02:15 PM
  #26
Habs4Life
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I have experience in this topic...

I have smoked a join prior to the game's and i can honestly say it effect's your performance big time.

Not only do you feel like you have no energy but when you handle the puck it feels like you have stoned hands...

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12-10-2003, 02:20 PM
  #27
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Some of, actually alot of, these supplement companies are full of crap. I put on 30lbs. during my second year university simply eating well (REALLY WELL) and putting in 1 1/2 to 2 hours a day in the gym. My best friend start training the same time I did, I stopped long ago, he kept going. He's spent hundreds, if not a couple thousand $$ on supplements and body building mags over that time... he might have put on 20 lbs since he started. The guy I trained with pretty much had the same routine as me and he's friggin' ripped.

Supplements are a waste of time.

As for players using performance enhancing drugs... no way we should allow it. It totally defeats the purpose of sport.

I hope Steroid N wins the cup this year. I'm tired of Steroid C winning all the time. :mad:

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12-10-2003, 03:39 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurCHAOS
Smoking pot doesn't enhance physical prowess, so I don't understand the **** about this particular drug.

About the more chemical ones, well, a player who needs this is a cheater, plain and simple. Isn't confident enough about his abilities, or his parents are putting too much pressure, or the world of hockey is becoming completely crazy ?!?

A player who cheats with drugs isn't a real player, he's a ******
Pot mellows you out, and it relax's, its high tense job, the pressure and everything. And a poppers a day keeps the doctor away.

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12-10-2003, 03:40 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
Not only do you feel like you have no energy but when you handle the puck it feels like you have stoned hands...
That's why it's called being stoned, or "gelé".

Anyway, the article says that the players smoke during bus stops, to help them sleep or stay awake, can't remember which. Not before the games or anything.

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Old
12-10-2003, 03:54 PM
  #30
habitants9_4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I have experience in this topic...

I have smoked a join prior to the game's and i can honestly say it effect's your performance big time.

Not only do you feel like you have no energy but when you handle the puck it feels like you have stoned hands...
If you do it as a defense, it could make you more aggresive! So you play a gutless physical style. And you stand a lot of people up.

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12-10-2003, 04:49 PM
  #31
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I don't know about the Q, but I've witnessed pretty much an entire college team "lighting it up" after a game.

If I had to guess, most of them wouldn't be doing it before the game. Other than that, I'm sure it goes on.

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12-11-2003, 05:02 AM
  #32
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Here's another problem, in the Q (or OHL and WHL), these kids (those who are under 18) are taken away from the supervision of their parents. The league/team is responsible for them in some way or another.

If a player develops a drug problem (from pot to hash to coke to H) or if they develop long term health issues, won't the league(s) be in danger of a lawsuit at the least and moral reponsible in the grander scale of things?

Most people who do not lie through their teeth admit that they had some questionable judgement with drugs (soft or not) and/or alcohol. The issue is that when you live under your parents roof, the family structure usually dampens the "party spirit." Imagine if you were left alone with your buddies in a foreign town, with the admiration of little rink groupies and weed at every street corner..... I know that I would probably be tempted....

The solution, the league/team has to supervise these guys a little closer. I wonder if John Kordic's parents ever thought of suing his junior teams for criminal negligence.....

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Old
12-11-2003, 05:32 AM
  #33
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The Q players are living away from home stay with a host family so they aren't exactly left alone with their buddies. They have schoolwork to do, they have rules to heed that are set by their host family (what's the english word for that ?). I don't think it's the league responsability to babysit the players about pot smoking. You can also see it on another angle : Would the drug problem be even worse if they were not playing amateur sports ? I'd say it's probable. Is the fact they play hockey really the cause why they start smoking pot in the first place ? I'd say it's highly doubtful.

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12-11-2003, 11:12 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole
Here's another problem, in the Q (or OHL and WHL), these kids (those who are under 18) are taken away from the supervision of their parents. The league/team is responsible for them in some way or another.

If a player develops a drug problem (from pot to hash to coke to H) or if they develop long term health issues, won't the league(s) be in danger of a lawsuit at the least and moral reponsible in the grander scale of things?

Most people who do not lie through their teeth admit that they had some questionable judgement with drugs (soft or not) and/or alcohol. The issue is that when you live under your parents roof, the family structure usually dampens the "party spirit." Imagine if you were left alone with your buddies in a foreign town, with the admiration of little rink groupies and weed at every street corner..... I know that I would probably be tempted....

The solution, the league/team has to supervise these guys a little closer. I wonder if John Kordic's parents ever thought of suing his junior teams for criminal negligence.....
If you knew the TIGHT supervision that goes on in the OHL, I am sure you wouldn't say that. Players live with families, and the teams pay the players living expenses to that family, sometimes extra money too, and they get season tickets as a kind gesture.

Anyways, I know most of the Storm players drink, and many smoke weed. As it is a very common thing for this age. None would be able to get away with doing it before a game or a practise. Just the other day someone I knew who was the goalie for Acton got kicked off the team for smoking pot. Also last year with Jr.B 3 of their top players got kicked off the team, one for breaking cufew more than twice. Other for dealing pot, and one other for smoking pot at a practise. All three were Storm prospects, and one of them is with the Storm this season, and playing very well.

Their curfew is two hours after getting released from the game, on game nights, and 11pm on most nights. They must be in and call the team phone line EVERY DAY.

They are very strict as the players are watched CONSTANTLY.

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12-11-2003, 02:39 PM
  #35
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I know of many players who take creatine on the Bulldogs and other AHL teams. I don't think it is too big a deal.

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12-12-2003, 04:01 AM
  #36
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitants9_4
I know of many players who take creatine on the Bulldogs and other AHL teams. I don't think it is too big a deal.
Ask Mark McGuire if it's not a big deal. The guy is falling apart. Do you think it has nothing to do with creatine? Come on.

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Old
12-12-2003, 04:33 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitants9_4
If you knew the TIGHT supervision that goes on in the OHL, I am sure you wouldn't say that.

Anyways, I know most of the Storm players drink, and many smoke weed. As it is a very common thing for this age.

They are very strict as the players are watched CONSTANTLY.

Tight? Is that why we have professional athletes that develop drug problems? These guys are supposed to worship their bodies as their temples. Kordic, Fleury, Bryan Fogarty, the list goes on. These guys are the product of loose supervision, and later no mentoring at the NHL level. I am not going to say that I have first hand knowledge of the OHL in it's current state. Maybe it's a hundred times better. But, tight. I think that is an exaggeration.

On another note...As for the teams pushing education, please. How many guys who make it to the NHL with the ability to string together a sentence without clichés and poor grammar. We are not talking Greek philosophy here, just the ability to think critically and express it clearly. To say that these leagues take education seriously is to believe a team/league PR man's shtick.

Hey, I know it is common for young guys to smoke a bit and drink a bit. But it is easier to lie to your host family then to your parents.

But not for a minute should we think that the leagues are being altruistic. They are just watching over their investments. And that is why there has been this problem for years and years. Just now, the stakes are so high, players may sacrifice part of their health for a shot at a few million bucks.... Hey, maybe that isn't sucha bad idea.

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Old
12-12-2003, 12:01 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole
Ask Mark McGuire if it's not a big deal. The guy is falling apart. Do you think it has nothing to do with creatine? Come on.
His problems are more related to androstendione (sp?) are they not?

 
Old
12-12-2003, 12:09 PM
  #39
habitants9_4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole
Tight? Is that why we have professional athletes that develop drug problems? These guys are supposed to worship their bodies as their temples. Kordic, Fleury, Bryan Fogarty, the list goes on. These guys are the product of loose supervision, and later no mentoring at the NHL level. I am not going to say that I have first hand knowledge of the OHL in it's current state. Maybe it's a hundred times better. But, tight. I think that is an exaggeration.

On another note...As for the teams pushing education, please. How many guys who make it to the NHL with the ability to string together a sentence without clichés and poor grammar. We are not talking Greek philosophy here, just the ability to think critically and express it clearly. To say that these leagues take education seriously is to believe a team/league PR man's shtick.

Hey, I know it is common for young guys to smoke a bit and drink a bit. But it is easier to lie to your host family then to your parents.

But not for a minute should we think that the leagues are being altruistic. They are just watching over their investments. And that is why there has been this problem for years and years. Just now, the stakes are so high, players may sacrifice part of their health for a shot at a few million bucks.... Hey, maybe that isn't sucha bad idea.
That will hjappen no matter what, but they certainly reduce the amounts of it happening. It also happens for different reasons.

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Old
12-13-2003, 07:10 PM
  #40
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Just to add to the info that everyone else brought to the table. There have been documented cases of strokes with abuse of pseudoephedrine....which is contained in a remarkable amount of over-the-counter meds. Pretty sad if a young athlete became paralyzed on one side of their body..or worse.

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12-14-2003, 02:54 AM
  #41
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Joe, in fairness, the Kordics' and Fogartys' can and will occur in any walk of life. Addictive personalities are out there. the hockey culture surely didn't help them but I don't know that blame can really be attributed. Any business that relies on minors as it's principal asset can make me uneasy, though I realize that anyone who has played would sacrifice a lot to play at the Jr. level with hopes of reaching beyond. I pretty much agree with where you're coming from though on the whole. What concerns me, or what mystifies me is the laissez faire attitude towards what we know little about. The posters who are dismissive about the possible side or after affects of many of these products haven't demonstrated the upside. Doing an upside/downside comparison makes me curious at the motivation. Working out in a gym is to promote good health, I believe. So, if a product makes you a degree stronger or more defined, what does that give you ? If it isn't how you make your living, is the way your bicep looks in a t shirt that important ? I realize that I'm getting into value systems and personal choices, and I'm uninformed about much of this, but somehow I just don't get it.

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12-15-2003, 11:05 AM
  #42
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Joe, in fairness, the Kordics' and Fogartys' can and will occur in any walk of life. Addictive personalities are out there. the hockey culture surely didn't help them but I don't know that blame can really be attributed. Any business that relies on minors as it's principal asset can make me uneasy, though I realize that anyone who has played would sacrifice a lot to play at the Jr. level with hopes of reaching beyond. I pretty much agree with where you're coming from though on the whole. What concerns me, or what mystifies me is the laissez faire attitude towards what we know little about. The posters who are dismissive about the possible side or after affects of many of these products haven't demonstrated the upside. Doing an upside/downside comparison makes me curious at the motivation. Working out in a gym is to promote good health, I believe. So, if a product makes you a degree stronger or more defined, what does that give you ? If it isn't how you make your living, is the way your bicep looks in a t shirt that important ? I realize that I'm getting into value systems and personal choices, and I'm uninformed about much of this, but somehow I just don't get it.
I agree that a large degree of Kordic and Fogarty's demises could have happened regardless, but... the great brotherhood of the NHL (and other leagues) knew about them and did nothing, at least in Kordic's case. It just saddens me.

I also agree on the "so what" vibe that you got from a large portion of the posters here. I was mystified as well. Pro athletes know the risks, and the price they pay is balanced by the paychecks that they receive, and the financial security that those checks gives them and their families. On the other hand, a regular Joe's who take these products to increase their appearance or their performance in some beer league are so short sighted and vain.

This is what we have become....

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Old
12-16-2003, 03:15 AM
  #43
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Joe, I had dinner with a close friend the other night and brought up this issue. He is in the education system and knows things that I don't. He was telling me how the philosophy seemd to be 'Take whatever you need to give you what you want today.' Whether it be a form of amphetamine at exam time or an average midget hockey player hoping to make Jr.B. It seems contradictory in that they seem to make better decisions than we did, before getting behind the wheel of a car, but are more carefree about what goes into their bodies. I don't know if it it is more of an end justifying the means mentality or what it is. I'm also not preaching that it was better in my teenage years, because it wasn't.

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12-16-2003, 09:58 AM
  #44
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
'Take whatever you need to give you what you want today.' I'm also not preaching that it was better in my teenage years, because it wasn't.
You know, what a kid takes on his own time, whether it was acid in the 70's, hash in the 80's or ecstasy now, is none of our business. That is part of growing up, thinking that you are immortal. It is also just for the "fun" of it, not to improve your chances of anything, except buying pizza at 4am.

I take issue with both the vacancy of just trying to improve your appearance, and the fact that these "kids" are coached and somehow supervised by adults that profit in some way from either turning the heads or playing stupid.

Hell, it wasn't perfect when I was younger either. Our goal was getting around the bases with the ladies. That I can still condone. But now it seems like they are looking for the shortcut around hard work.

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