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rate Stafford's season out of 10 so far this year.

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Old
02-04-2013, 07:59 PM
  #76
Girgenburger
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Hate is a strong word, but I seriously hate Stafford. Some people call it physicality. I call it running into people with no effect at all. He's one of our four or five forwards who we expect to score goals. Sure he's decently creative and not easy to force off the puck, but he needs to get on the scoresheet. I kind of like the Stafford for Hemsky proposal. Hemsky's far less physical but way more skilled, and we need more scoring. We'd win more games with players who score more. You can wear the opponent out physically, but at some point you gotta score, or you're still going to lose.

I'd give Stafford a 4 because he fought and has created a few glorious chances. But we need way more from him.

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02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by wearegodawful View Post
Hate is a strong word, but I seriously hate Stafford. Some people call it physicality. I call it running into people with no effect at all. He's one of our four or five forwards who we expect to score goals. Sure he's decently creative and not easy to force off the puck, but he needs to get on the scoresheet. I kind of like the Stafford for Hemsky proposal. Hemsky's far less physical but way more skilled, and we need more scoring. We'd win more games with players who score more. You can wear the opponent out physically, but at some point you gotta score, or you're still going to lose.

I'd give Stafford a 4 because he fought and has created a few glorious chances. But we need way more from him.
Hemsky is also a paper man made of glass.

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02-04-2013, 08:25 PM
  #78
Tim Murray
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3/10, role player level. Unfortunately his role is scoring goals. Otherwise he seems to have hustle.

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02-04-2013, 08:31 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
There's a bigger issue here that hasn't been mentioned much, if at all. First thing is that FES was able to match-up as a "3rd" line last season, after the opponent prioritized the Vanek-Hodgson-Tropp line and then the Leino-Roy-Pominville line. This season a true 2nd scoring line is not being iced by Ruff, whether from Grigs not being ready to fill in for Roy or Leino being out, or just simply from insisting on going with the robo VHP line.

That means FES has been assigned by opponents as the "2nd" line, and face tougher match-ups that they (primarily Ennis) is not ready for. Second, Ennis is getting crushed at the dot and giving up possession time for the whole line. Third, Ennis has been Roy-eske by too much dangle and not enough to-the-net mentality. I understand this adjustment because the dangle worked like a charm against his assignments last season. Ennis simply either is not capable as a true 2nd line C, or needs more time to learn. While this learning stage carries on, Foligno and Stafford will suffer. Stafford has been doing everything else right except producing, but he needs a puck in a good spot to do that, and Ennis has not been able to get one there yet.
Actually, posters like me, Jame, SBPC, et al. have harped on this fact for the last week. The easy offensive minutes, assigned to FES last season, are now being lopped up by an overwhelmed Grigorenko, who's more times than not flanked by limited offensive players like Hecht, Ott, or Foligno because Grigs needs the defensive shelter. So instead of giving those easy minutes to more accomplished offensive players like Ennis/Stafford, they're being given to an unready 18 yr old and his sheltering offensive non-factors.

The seemingly obvious alternative is to throw Grigs on the wing of Ennis/Stafford, give them soft offensive minutes, and assemble a checking line comprised of Foligno-Hecht-Ott. We'll at what point Ruff finally figures this out. But Ruff will likely keep tossing out these half-assed "two-way" lines with an offensive black hole on each, be it Hecht, Gerbe, or whomever.

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02-04-2013, 10:01 PM
  #80
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Lindy ALWAYS juggles back to lines that have worked before. We can ALL agree on that. Maybe FES should get another go. Then Hecht-Grigs-Ott. I do agree that Grigs does always seem to present an issue wherever ya put him, because he simply can't do a 180 fast enough. I guess if nothing else is working, you could try Ennis-Grigs-Staff. Then Foligno-Hecht/Ott.

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02-05-2013, 01:27 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
This thread has gotten stupid in a hurry. All we need for it to officially jump the shark is for someone to claim how much better we'll be the second he's off the team. Or, as it's better known, the Roy Corollary.
Yeah, it's gotten over the top, I agree.

But still, outside of that one year when he was fantastic, I think it's safe to say Stafford needs to be better and more consistent.

2006-07 BUF 41 13 14 27
2007-08 BUF 64 16 22 38
2008-09 BUF 79 20 25 45
2009-10 BUF 71 14 20 34
2010-11 BUF 62 31 21 52
2011-12 BUF 80 20 30 50
2012-13 BUF 9 0 3 3

I know you said how career year shouldn't be discounted, and you're absolutely right.

BUT... And it's a big BUT... When the career year look that much "off", then it comes down to what you can expect from Stafford each year... And it seems to be 15-20 goals, 45-50 points.
And even that, very hot and cold.

In short, he has been BAD so far this year, and very very mediocre for 80% of last season (he finished strong with Ennis and Foligno, but that was it).

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02-05-2013, 01:41 AM
  #82
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Stafford is a good third liner and a talented goal scorer 30 games out of 82. The thing I get hung up on is if we blame Ruff for every other inconsistency then does Stafford get a pass or are we saying that Ruff mishandled everyone else and Stafford is just bad? Pick your next move Ruff replaced, Myers moved, Stafford moved, Miller moved. If any of the three players played to their potential 4/5 nights we'd be a playoff team.

Summed up neatly;
Are the players inconsistent or is Ruff a bad motivator, blaming both is an option but firing Ruff isn't the silver bullet in that scenario.

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02-05-2013, 04:06 AM
  #83
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The funny thing about stafford is that in his contract year - when his play has ro be good to get big bucks - he is alwys playing out of his mind. In the other years he is just floating arround.

So there are just 2 solutions imo: Just offer him 1 year contract, or TRADE his lazy ass for someone who axtually cares about the team the whole contract length, not just in his RFA/UFA year.

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02-05-2013, 07:10 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
The funny thing about stafford is that in his contract year - when his play has ro be good to get big bucks - he is alwys playing out of his mind. In the other years he is just floating arround.

So there are just 2 solutions imo: Just offer him 1 year contract, or TRADE his lazy ass for someone who axtually cares about the team the whole contract length, not just in his RFA/UFA year.
Disagree -- he has always been streaky, not just in a contract season. When the puck is going in for him, it goes in in bunches. Right now, he's not finding a way to manufacture any goals. And he's not alone in that as all of the non-VHP skaters are having the same sort of issues. The ONLY issue I have with him right now is that he has to find a way to manufacture more goals. He's not alone in deserving criticism, since he is their primary scorer behind the top line he's a convenient target.

There are things he's doing that I like this year -- his play along the wall and retrievals seem like they've improved and the consistency of his effort does not seem glaringly different. But the finish isn't there. Is it Ennis that he isn't meshing with at the moment? Could be. Is it that his line is getting a ton of d-zone starts now instead of cake minutes against inferior competition in the offensive zone? Could be. Add in the d-men struggling with basics and a lot of ho-hum to downright **** goaltending and it's an easy team to be a minus on.

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02-05-2013, 07:41 AM
  #85
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If I could do one thing (realistic) with Stafford, I'd trade him straight up for Dubinski.

Dubinski plays on a crappy Blue Jacket team, has about the same stats (9 gms, 0 goals, 4 assits and -4) this year as Stafford but gives us a 26 year old center who plays a little defensively, $4mil to $3.75mil and change of scenary move with Stafford.

VHP
Ennis - Dubinsky - Ott/Foligno
??? - Grigs - Ott/Foligno
??? - Hecht - Kaleta

Gerbe, Scott, Ellis, McCormick

or

VHP
Hecht - Dubinsky - Ott
Ennis - Grigs - Foligno (Obviously the easy offensive line)
??? - McCormick - Kaleta

Scott, Gerbe, Ellis

Anyway, not sure Columbus would trade him after he was the main piece to Nash but Stafford has to have some value, and as I said in an above post, I think there needs to be a management statement that this years play is not acceptable, so Stafford is the one to go, this trade addresses needs. At the dot and attitude. Bye-bye to another "old core" guy....

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Old
02-05-2013, 07:51 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
I'm sorry, I have to be a wise guy so......

"So what you're saying, Stafford is an overpaid, third liner?"

Not necessarily, because achieving three balanced scoring lines leaves you with lines like 1a, 1b, and 1c. If this was the case with Buffalo and FES was still tearing it up, eventually opponents would wise up and match-up better against them, but leave one of the other lines to have the easier match-up. Ideally there would be one line getting a chance to clean up on a regular basis, and if you're good enough to draw that tougher match-up that frees up another line to produce, you're not really overpaid.

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02-05-2013, 07:52 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Actually, posters like me, Jame, SBPC, et al. have harped on this fact for the last week. The easy offensive minutes, assigned to FES last season, are now being lopped up by an overwhelmed Grigorenko, who's more times than not flanked by limited offensive players like Hecht, Ott, or Foligno because Grigs needs the defensive shelter. So instead of giving those easy minutes to more accomplished offensive players like Ennis/Stafford, they're being given to an unready 18 yr old and his sheltering offensive non-factors.

The seemingly obvious alternative is to throw Grigs on the wing of Ennis/Stafford, give them soft offensive minutes, and assemble a checking line comprised of Foligno-Hecht-Ott. We'll at what point Ruff finally figures this out. But Ruff will likely keep tossing out these half-assed "two-way" lines with an offensive black hole on each, be it Hecht, Gerbe, or whomever.
I know, it just hadn't really been discussed in this thread.

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:50 PM
  #88
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Outside of Hecht, he's my least favorite Sabre. For the talent he has, he rarely looks like he's giving maximum effort. He's been a total non-factor so far this year and he won't have the time to BS through 60 games before turning it on for 20 like he normally does. 2/10 and that's being generous.

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Old
02-08-2013, 11:08 AM
  #89
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Is it just me, or does it look like Drew is shooting with this eyes closed this year? I swear everytime he shoots the puck it looks like he doesn't actually intend on scoring. For a guy who is supposed to be a goal scorer, he sure doesn't appear to be a dangerous shooter. He's doing a pretty solid Jochen Hecht impression.

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02-08-2013, 08:22 PM
  #90
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I can't stand the guy. Stafford, Hecht, and Leo all need to go. Dump em, trade em, whatever, just be gone.

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:57 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Actually, posters like me, Jame, SBPC, et al. have harped on this fact for the last week. The easy offensive minutes, assigned to FES last season, are now being lopped up by an overwhelmed Grigorenko, who's more times than not flanked by limited offensive players like Hecht, Ott, or Foligno because Grigs needs the defensive shelter. So instead of giving those easy minutes to more accomplished offensive players like Ennis/Stafford, they're being given to an unready 18 yr old and his sheltering offensive non-factors.

The seemingly obvious alternative is to throw Grigs on the wing of Ennis/Stafford, give them soft offensive minutes, and assemble a checking line comprised of Foligno-Hecht-Ott. We'll at what point Ruff finally figures this out. But Ruff will likely keep tossing out these half-assed "two-way" lines with an offensive black hole on each, be it Hecht, Gerbe, or whomever.
Nail on the head.

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