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Do we need a heavyweight enforcer...

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:29 AM
  #351
Corncob
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
We need one BIG/HUGE goon like Scott only against teams like Boston.
(this way...Prust and Moen can concentrate on hockey).

Probably hard to believe...but I'm a pacifist! (I'd take a huge/goon who is there to police...never has to fight but does his job as a policeman...fights only when other team breaks the rules).
Which Boston player(s) do you envisage our 'big huge goon' fighting whilst Prust and Moen are concentrating on hockey?

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02-05-2013, 04:14 AM
  #352
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thread is way too long, the answer is no.

We do not need a heavyweight enforcer.

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02-05-2013, 05:30 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Prust is not the best fighter out there but he still lead the nhl this year with 4 fights and led the nhl last year with 20 fights.

He was the enforcer of the rangers and i don't remember anyone saying the rangers are soft.

Prust and White are not scared to drop the gloves with anyone so is Moen right now. I think i prefer to have White and Prust that can actually play some hockey and fight when the time is needed than start a liability for 5 minutes per game and get our top forward to play more than they should and get tired.


Who is the enforcer of the flyers? Are they soft? What about the rangers? Asham? At this point Prust is better than Asham.
Again it's great to say on paper "oh we have guys that play and can fight". But White and Moen lose most of them, our team do not scare anybody. You need one more guy that would be added. The last match against the Sens were relatively soft, that is why the Habs won. But the match before that, the Sens set the pace all night and were clearly the agressors and they won and even Neil fighting Prust was the turning point in the game. We need that one more guy that would make our psychologically more intimidating.

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02-05-2013, 06:00 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Again it's great to say on paper "oh we have guys that play and can fight". But White and Moen lose most of them, our team do not scare anybody. You need one more guy that would be added. The last match against the Sens were relatively soft, that is why the Habs won. But the match before that, the Sens set the pace all night and were clearly the agressors and they won and even Neil fighting Prust was the turning point in the game. We need that one more guy that would make our psychologically more intimidating.
there is your one more guy

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02-05-2013, 06:04 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
You mean how big huge goon John Scott went after Prust and Moen in Buffalo.

Oh... right. That didn't happen.
1) John Scott isn't going to fight every game.

2) A goon is both a defensive and offensive tool. Lucic won't be concussing Miller this year without repercussions, because the Sabres have enforcers. Montreal has no enforcers, so any other player can concuss Price, Markov or Galchenyuk at will.

And please, don't tell me that if the other team concusses Subban we can make them pay on the power play: I'd rather have a healthy team than another power play.

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02-05-2013, 06:46 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
1) John Scott isn't going to fight every game.

2) A goon is both a defensive and offensive tool. Lucic won't be concussing Miller this year without repercussions, because the Sabres have enforcers. Montreal has no enforcers, so any other player can concuss Price, Markov or Galchenyuk at will.

And please, don't tell me that if the other team concusses Subban we can make them pay on the power play: I'd rather have a healthy team than another power play.
Indeed. The B's having goons has consistently deterred cheap shots. As such, relatively few Bruins have experienced concussions.

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02-05-2013, 06:48 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
1) John Scott isn't going to fight every game.
John Scott bear swiped Subban and gave Montreal a power play. He was completely useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
2) A goon is both a defensive and offensive tool. Lucic won't be concussing Miller this year without repercussions, because the Sabres have enforcers. Montreal has no enforcers, so any other player can concuss Price, Markov or Galchenyuk at will.
Chara and Lucic weren't concussing anyone on Montreal until Montreal got yappy and fighty. Komisarek was doing fine aggravating Lucic all of the time, drops his gloves to prove how tough he is and got smashed. Pacioretty decided to lip off at Chara after scoring a goal and Chara made sure he paid for it. You know who will fight Chara and make him pay for it? Nobody. Nobody in the league can take down Chara. That's why Boston paid him so much when he was a UFA.

Honestly I think Hab fans are so soft as fans that all they can do is hope someone comes in and makes them feel big and tough. Makes me laugh. Larry Robinson wasn't much of a fighter but that was all Montreal really needed in the 70s to keep the worst of the Flyers in check. I think Jarred Tinordi will play a similar role plus actually play hockey.

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02-05-2013, 07:02 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Chara and Lucic weren't concussing anyone on Montreal until Montreal got yappy and fighty. Komisarek was doing fine aggravating Lucic all of the time, drops his gloves to prove how tough he is and got smashed. Pacioretty decided to lip off at Chara after scoring a goal and Chara made sure he paid for it. You know who will fight Chara and make him pay for it? Nobody. Nobody in the league can take down Chara. That's why Boston paid him so much when he was a UFA.
Not sure who told you that nobody in the league can tale Chara. Where do you get that from?

Evgeni Artyukhin did pretty well; Chris Neil took him down twice and let him off easy. Do you actually think that John Scott, Steve McYntyre, etc would collapse like little girls against the mighty Chara?

Your revisionist history is quite annoying. With respect to Komisarek, I remember in one of the last games of 2008-09, one of Chara or Lucic held him from behind, and the other punched Komisarek in the stomach. Yes I know what you think: he should just ignore being punched in the stomach, end enjoy the 5% chance the refs catch it and give us a power play.

And I can't condone you blaming Pacioretty for what happened to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
John Scott bear swiped Subban and gave Montreal a power play. He was completely useless.
So you're ok with Subban being punched in the face if we get a power play after?


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02-05-2013, 07:07 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Not sure who told you that nobody in the league can tale Chara. Where do you get that from?
I don't care if a few players have made him look bad, nobody is going to take Chara out. John Scott wouldn't do much. They'd tussle a bit and then one would go for a take down. Retribution!

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yes I know what you think: he should just ignore being punched in the stomach, end enjoy the 5% chance the refs catch it and give us a power play.
Or of course they can react and retaliate to everything like Ryan White and keep Montreal in the box all game. That's certainly a better strategy!

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And I can't condone you blaming Pacioretty for what happened to him.
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. When Montreal would play a clean skill game and ignore Bruins antics they win. When Montreal would try to mouth off and play tough against the Bruins they would get destroyed. So what do you want to do? Play tough against them? Yeah, that works. Pacioretty saw exactly how it works.

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02-05-2013, 07:07 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Lucic won't be concussing Miller this year without repercussions, because the Sabres have enforcers. Montreal has no enforcers, so any other player can concuss Price, Markov or Galchenyuk at will.
The last person to concuss Carey Price was David Desharnais. The teams that had the most player games lost to concussions last regular season was the St Louis Blues, followed by Minnesota and Pittsburgh. Teams that between them regularly dress people who could be described as 'enforcers'. Boston have had a consistently tough team but have still had players miss huge amount of time through concussions including Marc Savard and Nathan Horton (both players injured in cheap shot hits, both while Milan Lucic was on the ice, zero 'repercussions' each time).

If you're going to make claims that dressing an enforcer reduces concussions suffered to players on the team, then you're going to have to present some evidence that it's actually true, because I've yet to see any.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
John Scott bear swiped Subban and gave Montreal a power play. He was completely useless.



Chara and Lucic weren't concussing anyone on Montreal until Montreal got yappy and fighty. Komisarek was doing fine aggravating Lucic all of the time, drops his gloves to prove how tough he is and got smashed. Pacioretty decided to lip off at Chara after scoring a goal and Chara made sure he paid for it. You know who will fight Chara and make him pay for it? Nobody. Nobody in the league can take down Chara. That's why Boston paid him so much when he was a UFA.

Honestly I think Hab fans are so soft as fans that all they can do is hope someone comes in and makes them feel big and tough. Makes me laugh. Larry Robinson wasn't much of a fighter but that was all Montreal really needed in the 70s to keep the worst of the Flyers in check. I think Jarred Tinordi will play a similar role plus actually play hockey.
You must not watch a lot of Hab games.

Off the top of my head:
-Chara elbowed Kovalev then proceeded to punch Latendresse in the face
-Lucic cross-checked Schneider so hard he went into his own net like a bowling pin
-Paille or somebody going in hard on an icing call started a huge line brawl
-Horton & Lucic literally jumping on Subban from both sides after a whistle
-Marchand punched Plekanec in the face while he was tied up, not to mention...ah what the hell you could do a whole thread just on Marchand
-Julien iced his 4th line with less than a minute to go; started a line brawl & Hamrlik, Spacek & Pyatt got jumped
-Lucic cross-checked Price; refused to fight Moen afterwards
-Lucic spent an entire 3rd period hunting Pouliot because he beat the piss out of Krejci(Krejci instigated the fight)

These teams have a vicious hate for one another and that's just what happens when you keep meeting your rival in the playoffs. Montreal loves to embarrass Boston & Boston loves to beat up Montreal.

And Robinson scared the crap out of the Flyers because he one-punched Schultz into next week.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:36 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by TheWhiteIdea View Post
Flyers have Jody Shelly, Tom Sestito, Zach Rinaldo(not a big guy though) Tye McGinn

The Rangers? Really they are huge and have plenty of fighters: Rupp, Bickel, Asham, Newbury,
For Philly, I suggest you watch a couple of Prust's fights against Sestito and Rinaldo. It generally doesn't end well for those two.

Shelley is a tool that can't play hockey to save his life. And McGinn Is by no mean a HW. You should name Hartnell before a couple of those guys. He's a bigger factor than those you have named.

As for the Rangers? Rupp isn't with them anymore. Bickell is on a short leash and by their own fans' admission, might be running out of time with Tortorella. Asham is a guy that will win some and lose some, a poor man's version of Prust. And Newbury isn't even a regular. As for his pugilistic qualities, yeah, I don't think he scares many people out there.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:58 AM
  #363
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Indeed. The B's having goons has consistently deterred cheap shots. As such, relatively few Bruins have experienced concussions.
it's like banging your head against a wall isn't

people need to stop pretending like chara or even lucic would ever fight scott.

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02-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #364
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thread is way too long, the answer is yes.

We need a heavyweight enforcer

Ranger have Mashinter ,who is a upgrade over Rupp. They also have Haley in the ahl who is probably one of the first to get a call up if a bottom 6 player get injured

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02-05-2013, 10:12 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
it's like banging your head against a wall isn't

people need to stop pretending like chara or even lucic would ever fight scott.
And even if they did, like it would have some sort of magical effect on our team that would ward away injuries. Would having a heavyweight protect Gionta from tearing his bicep again? Or Markov from hurting his knee? Eller from dislocating his shoulder? The answer is no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
thread is way too long, the answer is yes.

We need a heavyweight enforcer

Ranger have Mashinter ,who is a upgrade over Rupp. They also have Haley in the ahl who is probably one of the first to get a call up if a bottom 6 player get injured
So you've come to the argument equivalent of plugging your ears and stamping your feet instead of presenting an intelligent argument. Fitting.

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02-05-2013, 10:48 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
And even if they did, like it would have some sort of magical effect on our team that would ward away injuries. Would having a heavyweight protect Gionta from tearing his bicep again? Or Markov from hurting his knee? Eller from dislocating his shoulder? The answer is no.



So you've come to the argument equivalent of plugging your ears and stamping your feet instead of presenting an intelligent argument. Fitting.
I responded to Toro who writed the same thing but in negative

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02-05-2013, 10:57 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
John Scott bear swiped Subban and gave Montreal a power play. He was completely useless.



Chara and Lucic weren't concussing anyone on Montreal until Montreal got yappy and fighty. Komisarek was doing fine aggravating Lucic all of the time, drops his gloves to prove how tough he is and got smashed. Pacioretty decided to lip off at Chara after scoring a goal and Chara made sure he paid for it. You know who will fight Chara and make him pay for it? Nobody. Nobody in the league can take down Chara. That's why Boston paid him so much when he was a UFA.

Honestly I think Hab fans are so soft as fans that all they can do is hope someone comes in and makes them feel big and tough. Makes me laugh. Larry Robinson wasn't much of a fighter but that was all Montreal really needed in the 70s to keep the worst of the Flyers in check. I think Jarred Tinordi will play a similar role plus actually play hockey.
So what you are saying is to just be a *****, take it like a *****, and then hope that acting weak will make the bullies leave you alone.

John Scott does not have to pick a fight with Chara or Lucic. Just having Scott on the bench caused Lucic to play a nice clean game of hockey without cheap shots or running players.

Deterrence. It's a cool word that some people do not know the meaning of.

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02-05-2013, 11:13 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
So what you are saying is to just be a *****, take it like a *****, and then hope that acting weak will make the bullies leave you alone.

John Scott does not have to pick a fight with Chara or Lucic. Just having Scott on the bench caused Lucic to play a nice clean game of hockey without cheap shots or running players.

Deterrence. It's a cool word that some people do not know the meaning of.
deterrence is a myth.

for every example of scott scaring the bruins, i can provide you with plenty of example of cheapshots


Last edited by MasterDecoy: 02-05-2013 at 11:32 AM. Reason: my chinese > my english :(
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02-05-2013, 11:43 AM
  #369
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If there is a guy who can play hockey and contribute to whatever line he is being pegged for, the 4th line no doubt, and in all other respects is good guy for that line in terms of what that line is supposed to do, and he is a big heavyweight fighter, sure, why not. The fact he is a big heavyweight fighter is only an added element however, not the key reason for me to get him. So, need, no, nice to have as a bonus, sure.

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02-05-2013, 11:49 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
The last person to concuss Carey Price was David Desharnais. The teams that had the most player games lost to concussions last regular season was the St Louis Blues, followed by Minnesota and Pittsburgh. Teams that between them regularly dress people who could be described as 'enforcers'. Boston have had a consistently tough team but have still had players miss huge amount of time through concussions including Marc Savard and Nathan Horton (both players injured in cheap shot hits, both while Milan Lucic was on the ice, zero 'repercussions' each time).

If you're going to make claims that dressing an enforcer reduces concussions suffered to players on the team, then you're going to have to present some evidence that it's actually true, because I've yet to see any.
You forgot the add that Krecji and Bergeron have also been concussed in addition to Marc Savard and Horton. A lot of concussions for the toughest team in the league.

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02-05-2013, 12:04 PM
  #371
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You forgot the add that Krecji and Bergeron have also been concussed in addition to Marc Savard and Horton. A lot of concussions for the toughest team in the league.
The Bruins probably get cheapshotted more than the Habs do, I guess they need an enforcer.

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02-05-2013, 12:10 PM
  #372
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The Bruins probably get cheapshotted more than the Habs do, I guess they need an enforcer.
My theory is that the more you engage the other team, the more they are likely they are to engage back. Boston is probably on the receiving of cheapshots more often because they like to initiate the physical games more often than most teams do, others are just reciprocating.

Also, when that is the type of identity you want to portray to the league, then teams will come into games ready to push back.

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02-05-2013, 12:25 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
thread is way too long, the answer is yes.

We need a heavyweight enforcer

Ranger have Mashinter ,who is a upgrade over Rupp. They also have Haley in the ahl who is probably one of the first to get a call up if a bottom 6 player get injured
They had Mashinter for a day, he just got sent back to the AHL...

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02-05-2013, 12:29 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Again it's great to say on paper "oh we have guys that play and can fight". But White and Moen lose most of them, our team do not scare anybody. You need one more guy that would be added. The last match against the Sens were relatively soft, that is why the Habs won. But the match before that, the Sens set the pace all night and were clearly the agressors and they won and even Neil fighting Prust was the turning point in the game. We need that one more guy that would make our psychologically more intimidating.
Fine, Let's say I agree
Who do you drop for who?
The team is 6-2, do you upset the apple cart by dropping a player to bring in an enforcer?

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02-05-2013, 12:50 PM
  #375
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Replace Armstrong with clowe ( or someone like him) this summer.
Bring Tinordi next year.

No need for an HW

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