HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jonathan Bernier

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-05-2013, 02:38 AM
  #51
RonSwanson*
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
Going to the Kings/Flames game on the 20th. With LA playing EDM the night before here's hoping I see Bernier show up in Calgary
You should be hoping for Quick to play both games.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 06:17 AM
  #52
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
every goalie is trained on positional play. some play it better than others at the core. for some keepers they are able to 'cheat' due to speed, flexibility and other attributes they may have.

i dont work with keepers, but have a basic coaching understanding when it comes to developing them. once a kid makes the decision to become a goalie the basics they are taught deal entirely with position from day one. i am not just talking about their position in the crease in relation to the goalmouth.

the hybrid butterfly style that most play now is taught with exact movements and placements so a goalie remains squared and positionally sound in the crease, in relation to the puck and shooter. a few and i mean a few.
*Stick out front and slanted in towards the keeper. Causes the puck to deflect up, out and away from the keeper to the back boards and glass.
*Blocker saves are to played so they are directed (not deflected as many think) to the corner or halfboards, depending on opposing players. This is done by using the block by rotating the wrist to 'steer' the puck in the desired direction.
*Chest saves are meant to made for any shot a foot of the ice. Yes, 1 foot off the ice. Goalies are taught to go down in the butterfly, square to the shooter, drop their butt, tuck their elbows in, smother/control the rebound and use the catcher to smother the puck.
*Movement back and forth, side to side is very scripted on how they move their feet, legs and pads. The stick, catcher and blocker are all specifically scripted on where they should be positioned as the goalie is moving.

Just a few of the basics, but ALL of it is positional in how a keeper is trained to play. The butterfly style developed over the years and is successful, because it largely is due to goalies being more positionally strong in net 100% of the time. They take more space, are better able to control rebounds and can react to last second shots. Butterfly allows a goalie to better control his momentum in net, which allows him better control the shooter.

Old stand up goalies it was far easier for a shooter to deke them and use their momentum against them. These days good luck with that. Just watch a few Quick highlight reels. When he is falling to one side he is still able to come back to the other side and make a save.

It's percentages. They are playing a system that allows for goalies to play the percentages against shooters, by reducing shooting space, control their movement, their angles, gap to the shooter and better control rebounds. If a goalie today isn't strong positionally, they will never make it. They all play a positional game, because that is how goaltending is taught.
Cool. My brother is a goalie, and I have coached goalies in the past.

What does that have to do with Bernier or Quick or anything?

Other than disproving your earlier point, since you now have stated that all goalies now play a butterfly or hybird style that requires more size than all those other goalies you mention, meaning Bernier's size might be an issue?

Holden Caulfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #53
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 2,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Cool. My brother is a goalie, and I have coached goalies in the past.

What does that have to do with Bernier or Quick or anything?

Other than disproving your earlier point, since you now have stated that all goalies now play a butterfly or hybird style that requires more size than all those other goalies you mention, meaning Bernier's size might be an issue?
the point is that every goalie relies on positional play. EVERY one of them. someone made the point that JB plays and relies simply on his positioning is an inaccurate statement. JB setups, moves, reacts pretty much like every other goalie out there because it is how they are trained.

the position is taught in a very regimented style. that regimen teaches a young kid as they progress the proper way to move and 'stay big' in the net. there will be small nuances from one goalie to the next, but they are taught to be consistent so they don't create 'holes', can move freely and control their momentum.

all you have to do is watch goalies skate through the 'iron cross' drill to see this. the number of steps, slides, knee positioning, etc are all very defined as they move side-to-side and then backwards and forwards.

at no point did i say that JB or other goalies have to be bigger, in order to play this style or be more effective. the claim i made earlier was that JB needs more game time to be effective. this has been discussed ad nauseum on here for years now. his play improves, the more ice time he sees.

my point about the HHOF goalies is that you don't have to be a 6'5" monster in the net. yes the game has changed, but it is constantly changing and evolving. a switch wasn't suddenly flipped on/off one day that changed it from black to white. those goalies over time had to adapt and change to how the game was played, changes to equipment, rules, etc. if size was the only thing that mattered when it comes to goalies, then you see teams signing someone that could just stand there and fill space. someone taller than 4' and as close to 6' wide as possible.

Whiskeypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 06:35 PM
  #54
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
The Eternal Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
the point is that every goalie relies on positional play. EVERY one of them. someone made the point that JB plays and relies simply on his positioning is an inaccurate statement. JB setups, moves, reacts pretty much like every other goalie out there because it is how they are trained.

the position is taught in a very regimented style. that regimen teaches a young kid as they progress the proper way to move and 'stay big' in the net. there will be small nuances from one goalie to the next, but they are taught to be consistent so they don't create 'holes', can move freely and control their momentum.

all you have to do is watch goalies skate through the 'iron cross' drill to see this. the number of steps, slides, knee positioning, etc are all very defined as they move side-to-side and then backwards and forwards.

at no point did i say that JB or other goalies have to be bigger, in order to play this style or be more effective. the claim i made earlier was that JB needs more game time to be effective. this has been discussed ad nauseum on here for years now. his play improves, the more ice time he sees.

my point about the HHOF goalies is that you don't have to be a 6'5" monster in the net. yes the game has changed, but it is constantly changing and evolving. a switch wasn't suddenly flipped on/off one day that changed it from black to white. those goalies over time had to adapt and change to how the game was played, changes to equipment, rules, etc. if size was the only thing that mattered when it comes to goalies, then you see teams signing someone that could just stand there and fill space. someone taller than 4' and as close to 6' wide as possible.
Well obviously all goalie use positioning (notable exception being Dominic Hasek haha).

But clearly a goalie like Mathieu Garon is not as good positionally as say a Miikka Kiprusoff. He therefore relies heavily on his athleticism to make up the difference, his great speed post to post and incredible flexibility.

Now just because Bernier does not have athleticism of a Garon, does not mean he has none. But it means he must rely more heavily on his positioning.

And it has been a trend that smart safe more positional based goalies like Kipprusoff, Bobrovsky, Bernier, etc tend to do better when getting in a regular rhythm with regular work between the pipes. Streaky inconsistant goalies that tend to rely more heavily on their atheleticism can get hot or cold seemingly at random, and don't need the constant work to keep them sharp.

I still fail to see what your trying to argue here. Clearly all goalies use some kind of positioning. Clearly all use athleticism as well. But I am talking about their primary strengths. You don't need to be huge, but being a bigger goalie is a huge advantage. Being a positional goalie, Particularly for smaller goalies might cause problems since like you said all goalies are using similiar styles these days, so if the other guy is playing the same positionnally and is bigger...

I like Bernier and think that he will do well when given regular playing somewhere else, but his size is certainly a concern at least a little for his long term potential.

Holden Caulfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.