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Dave Stubbs calls PJ Stock a "sensational[ist], irresponsible" liar for PK comments

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02-05-2013, 11:01 AM
  #51
HiggsBozon
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Listening to TSN 690 right now. Nothing against Marinaro personally. But anyone else getting annoyed at how Subban is always at the center of his Habs talk? I mean. Let the guy breathe for christ sake. The whole episode yesterday was on Subban's celebration that was taken out. Today, they're talking about the Stubbs-Stock episode. It's getting heavy. Anyone talking against the french media surrounding this team; the English media is just as bad.

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02-05-2013, 11:02 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
there's a refusal to accept that pk might be a problem on these boards that i just can't understand
No one is saying that PK is universaly liked on his team, he's not. But to say he's hated by half to all his teammates is ridiculous.

He needs to learn how to settle down and not be about himself as much and he seems to have gotten the message. I think it's more a case of the team saying to him to fall in line if he wants to suceed and be more about the greater than himself. It's not about hating him as much as it is the way he carries himself. Once he figures it all out all will be fine.

I'd be concerned if after he came back, PK was being brash and falling into old habits but he seeems subdued and willing to do what it takes to be a "team" player. His teammates will respect that.

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02-05-2013, 11:03 AM
  #53
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From what i thought i heard once, Stubbs travels with the team many times. Who in the locker room would leak information to PJ, he is years away from playing hockey and bashes everyone in the organisation on a daily basis... I think PJ was just guessing at information to make him sound informed, and Stubbs called his bluff.

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02-05-2013, 11:04 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
there's a refusal to accept that pk might be a problem on these boards that i just can't understand
Again.

Players hold out for money, no problem.

Subban accepts less money after a week of negotiating=PROBLEM!!!!

Just look at the context...

Is subban immature and cocky? Maybe, but the degree of hate or dislike is laughable. Some say Price dislikes Subban now. Wait, same guy who would triple low five him after every win? Yah, out of nowhere he hates him. Josh Gorges, the guy who he had tremendous mutual success with? Yah, josh hates him now.

It's not unthinkable to suggest these guys have conflicting opinions and don't always get along but the degree in which Subban is turned into a bad guy is ridiculous. Guy didn't even pick a side during lockout, he didn't bash team during negotiations, he accepted less than his value to be back with the team, etc...

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02-05-2013, 11:07 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Bonhomme View Post
Stock isn't the sharpest tool in the shed
Then again some tools are not meant to cut; Stock is there to suscitate reactions. It should be expected that he'd grab on to such a "juicy" story as that of P.K Subban in order to excite the plebs.

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02-05-2013, 11:08 AM
  #56
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Yes Stubbs is a homer, it's basically his job to serve as positive PR for the players...but you know what? It's why he gets open access to the dressing room and is the first guy most of the team is willing to talk to. He was the one guy able to get direct info from Markov during the lockout.

So yes, you have to assume he will put a positive spin on things, but he actually speaks to the players on a regular basis. Who on this team is stupid enough to speak with PJ Stock? If there's anyone on this team who is a problem, it would be the guy with the low enough IQ to be friendly with Stock.

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02-05-2013, 11:11 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
there's a refusal to accept that pk might be a problem on these boards that i just can't understand
For the criticism Stubbs gets for being a homer, he sums up the existence of strife nicely, and I take no issue with it:

Quote:
And lest there be anyone who believes that the Canadiens dressing room is a place of perfect harmony, understand this:

Every player competes for the common good, but every man battles every day for the coach’s favour, for the extra shift or the next start in goal.

Tempers fray, attitudes develop, individual and collective spirits rise and fall, friendships are forged, muscles and joints and feelings are hurt and every man deals with things away from the game that sometimes bleed into the room.

Is P.K. Subban embraced by all? Absolutely not.

Does more than one player in the room wish Subban’s volume were a little lower, his glow a little less radiant? Absolutely.
But I don't accept Stock's plainly stated, oft-repeated statement. The thesis of this thread, and the rebuttal article - is that nobody on the bench likes PK - and his refusal to support his position doesn't help. I also think Stubbs did a better job refuting Stock's position than Stock did in supporting it, and agree that the manner in which he is doing that is sensationalist and irresponsible. He did Elliotte a disservice in having him back him up on Montreal radio right before embarking on a campaign of insults, all of which are a smokescreen serving to distract us from the thesis.

Some people like the cliche about smoke proving that there's fire (one of David Milgaard's favourites), I prefer the cliche about being innocent until proven guilty.

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02-05-2013, 11:11 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Yes Stubbs is a homer, it's basically his job to serve as positive PR for the players...but you know what? It's why he gets open access to the dressing room and is the first guy most of the team is willing to talk to. He was the one guy able to get direct info from Markov during the lockout.

So yes, you have to assume he will put a positive spin on things, but he actually speaks to the players on a regular basis. Who on this team is stupid enough to speak with PJ Stock? If there's anyone on this team who is a problem, it would be the guy with the low enough IQ to be friendly with Stock.
I think at the very basic level that's what it is. Even if Stubbs knows different and putting a positive spin PJ knows nothing anyway.

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02-05-2013, 11:14 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
If someone presents proof besides hearsay then maybe I might believe it.
Has there been proof to the contrary? See videos of Subban fighting with different teammates on different occasions. As much as you might want to believe this is normal, or that its only picked up cause it's mtl, it's not. He clearly has a knack for rubbing people the wrong way, his teammates included. Why is there reason to believe it's different off the ice? Of course Subban will be invited for the Habs Superbowl party and whatnot, it's team building and good on everybody for being on the same page. Every time something comes up about Subban, some of you call it lies. It's easy to argue if everytime someone brings something up, you classify it as lies.

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02-05-2013, 11:15 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
No one is saying that PK is universaly liked on his team, he's not. But to say he's hated by half to all his teammates is ridiculous.

He needs to learn how to settle down and not be about himself as much and he seems to have gotten the message. I think it's more a case of the team saying to him to fall in line if he wants to suceed and be more about the greater than himself. It's not about hating him as much as it is the way he carries himself. Once he figures it all out all will be fine.

I'd be concerned if after he came back, PK was being brash and falling into old habits but he seeems subdued and willing to do what it takes to be a "team" player. His teammates will respect that.
That I can agree with

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02-05-2013, 11:15 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Again.

Players hold out for money, no problem.

Subban accepts less money after a week of negotiating=PROBLEM!!!!

Just look at the context...

Is subban immature and cocky? Maybe, but the degree of hate or dislike is laughable. Some say Price dislikes Subban now. Wait, same guy who would triple low five him after every win? Yah, out of nowhere he hates him. Josh Gorges, the guy who he had tremendous mutual success with? Yah, josh hates him now.

It's not unthinkable to suggest these guys have conflicting opinions and don't always get along but the degree in which Subban is turned into a bad guy is ridiculous. Guy didn't even pick a side during lockout, he didn't bash team during negotiations, he accepted less than his value to be back with the team, etc...
I actually like Gorges dislikes PK. No sources, but look at his body language when they're next to each other... having success with a co-worker doesn't mean you have to like him.

Gorges usually does not look at PK when they're next to each other. Said a few things to the media that made me think they're not buddies. Also, after the win on saturday (or sunday?) they were celebrating on the ice, and PK got to the front of the line to congratulate everyone and Gorges passed right by without looking.

I'm not saying he hates him or anything, but I think it's clear some guys are not fans of PK.

Gionta, captain of the team, talked bad about him a few times during the lockout.

I love PK, but we have to be realistic, he's not a teammate favorite.

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Old
02-05-2013, 11:16 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
If someone presents proof besides hearsay then maybe I might believe it.
I heard Carey Price is a cancer in the room.

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02-05-2013, 11:17 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Again.

Players hold out for money, no problem.

Subban accepts less money after a week of negotiating=PROBLEM!!!!

Just look at the context...

Is subban immature and cocky? Maybe, but the degree of hate or dislike is laughable. Some say Price dislikes Subban now. Wait, same guy who would triple low five him after every win? Yah, out of nowhere he hates him. Josh Gorges, the guy who he had tremendous mutual success with? Yah, josh hates him now.

It's not unthinkable to suggest these guys have conflicting opinions and don't always get along but the degree in which Subban is turned into a bad guy is ridiculous. Guy didn't even pick a side during lockout, he didn't bash team during negotiations, he accepted less than his value to be back with the team, etc...
No, he didn't

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Old
02-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I have said it before and saying it again, the whole "PK is not liked" thing is way overblown. I heard from good sources that at times he rubbed teammates the wrong way because of the persona he takes on with fans and media, but the biggest issue is the team was losing so everybody was hyper sensitive. Basically the type of stuff perople "didn't like" but nothing to the point of wanting a guy traded or hating him. More big brother little brother type stuff, stuff that's a non factor if the team wins.

In the big picture this team has a strong leadership group, plus the GM and coach have emphasised a "team first" attitude, even to the point of overemphasis to get the team back on the rails, the timing of this is perfect to get PK toned down a bit. I think they have to be careful though, not to sap the passion and emotion from him.
Pretty much the way I see it.

And I'm not worried one bit about sapping the passion. People forget how young this guy is. He's still figuring out who he is and how he will be as an adult. I'm not going to claim I know the guy, but from every impression I get, he seems like a smart kid with his head on right, good attitude, positive, willing to learn and willing to be a winner. What MT is doing, for example telling them (I say them because people forget that means Price too not just PK) to stop the triple low 5, as minor and trivial it may sound, is all part of helping PK mature into a man and into the best possible hockey player he can be. If they didn't see greatness in him they wouldn't care. I think PK understands this and in the long run will be better for it.

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02-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #65
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The thing I don't get is that, shouldn't fans/media only really care about what happens on the ice? If the Habs win the Stanley cup, then we find out half the room has voodoo dolls of each other, does it really matter?

Bottom line is, there's been WAY to much focus on this 'supposed' personality issue, and way too little attention paid to the on-ice performances of the team, which have been very positive so far this year.

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02-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
No, he didn't
Actually he probably did. Pretty close to it anyway.

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02-05-2013, 11:20 AM
  #67
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No, he didn't
Yes he did. I win.

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02-05-2013, 11:20 AM
  #68
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Actually he probably did. Pretty close to it anyway.
Well, close, maybe.

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02-05-2013, 11:21 AM
  #69
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The irony in all of this is that the people at CBC who call him brash and arrogant are CHERRY and STOCK! Is there anyone more brash and arrogant than these two?

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02-05-2013, 11:21 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
there's a refusal to accept that pk might be a problem on these boards that i just can't understand
Not at all. Maybe PK is a problem in the room.

Even if he is though:

1. His teammates should've handled this better.
2. PJ Stock's comments are still inaccurate and unprofessional.
3. PK DID actually take far less money than he could've made had he demanded a trade.
4. Stubbs is absolutely right in calling out Stock on his *********.

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02-05-2013, 11:22 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
The thing I don't get is that, shouldn't fans/media only really care about what happens on the ice? If the Habs win the Stanley cup, then we find out half the room has voodoo dolls of each other, does it really matter?

Bottom line is, there's been WAY to much focus on this 'supposed' personality issue, and way too little attention paid to the on-ice performances of the team, which have been very positive so far this year.
People like a soap opera. It's also why the media does it. If people weren't talking about it they wouldn't be spewing it.

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02-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #72
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I agree with almost everything in here especially (1) PJ Stock reacted like a 5 years old and (2) he always try to depict the Canadiens in a bad way.

That being mentioned, Stubbs, based on my very limited knowledge of his work, sometimes let his Habs pompom get the better of him. For instance, reading his last interview with Subban felt like watching an infomercial with Stubbs in the role of the PR guy.

Bottom line: in this "story", PJ Stock reacted as if he had the brain of a 5 years old kid.

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02-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
No, he didn't
You know I can easily look up your history. I already know your style. You don't like PK, you consider him a 'cancer' and 'overrated' even before PJ would come out with this 'info'.

Get back to me when you explain why Fowler got 4 mil a year for 5 years or why Benn deserves double what Subban got.

I get it, you're not a habs fan, it's cool. Just what do you want me to say? A rival team thinks Subban is a cancer? The line starts over there.

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02-05-2013, 11:24 AM
  #74
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Yes he did. I win.
Sure, if you're happy with your appropriately paid average defenseman with attitude issues (my opinion anyway), you win.

That said, there's nothing that says this experience isn't/wasn't humbling to him and he'll fall in line, perform well and earn a better contract after this one. I will say this, the Montreal media, Stubbs included, are partly responsible for Subban seeing more value in himself than there actually is. I'm very happy that Bergevin stuck to his guns. Passed that first test with flying colors in my opinion.

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02-05-2013, 11:25 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
Has there been proof to the contrary? See videos of Subban fighting with different teammates on different occasions. As much as you might want to believe this is normal, or that its only picked up cause it's mtl, it's not. He clearly has a knack for rubbing people the wrong way, his teammates included. Why is there reason to believe it's different off the ice? Of course Subban will be invited for the Habs Superbowl party and whatnot, it's team building and good on everybody for being on the same page. Every time something comes up about Subban, some of you call it lies. It's easy to argue if everytime someone brings something up, you classify it as lies.
Fights happen in practice all the time in the NHL. It does get focused on in Montreal more than other places though. Both Price and Gorges liked PK last year, but now they hate him?? New guys like Armstrong and Prust welcomed him to the team on twitter, I am sure he rubs some guys the wrong way but hate him, please...

I am firmly behind Stubbs on this. Who on this team would say this to PJ and have him blab it on HNIC? His defensive reaction just proves what a no talent hack he is.

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