HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

DW looking for another winger

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #126
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,491
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskanice View Post
DW is the wizard of surprising moves. He stands behind that curtain and shocks us common folk. Reading the Wild board, the fans have really soured on Setoguchi. Kind of similar to us and Handzus, Huskins et al.
and the same way as we did with seto to? the kid is a bust, he has no thrive to succeed. he was given the keys to the lambo (thornton, marleau) and thought his career was set.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 10:28 AM
  #127
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
and the same way as we did with seto to? the kid is a bust, he has no thrive to succeed. he was given the keys to the lambo (thornton, marleau) and thought his career was set.
Yup, agreed, and there is no way DW brings him back knowing that. He wants nothing to do with that kind of attitude.

Also, people mentioning Sheppard in trade scenario's... cut that out. The guy is one of the couple bottom-6 players we have who looks like he has the skill to potentially be a top-6 player/fill in. He's gotten better every game and in the last few games he's looking like our most dangerous bottom 6 player most shifts. If he can take another step or two he could end up being an absolute steal of a pickup. His point totals don't show it yet but he's doing all the right things on the ice and if he keeps that up he's going to put up points.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 10:41 AM
  #128
Gilligans Island
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Gilligans Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF/Bay Area
Posts: 5,774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yup, agreed, and there is no way DW brings him back knowing that. He wants nothing to do with that kind of attitude.

Also, people mentioning Sheppard in trade scenario's... cut that out. The guy is one of the couple bottom-6 players we have who looks like he has the skill to potentially be a top-6 player/fill in. He's gotten better every game and in the last few games he's looking like our most dangerous bottom 6 player most shifts. If he can take another step or two he could end up being an absolute steal of a pickup. His point totals don't show it yet but he's doing all the right things on the ice and if he keeps that up he's going to put up points.
I agree on Sheppard. He is improving well. Even last night, after Easy pointed out he was weak along the boards, I watched and he seemed to do just fine sustaining play along the boards.

Right now, I'd rank our bottom 6 as follows:

Sheppard
Gomez

Desjardins

Burish

Wingels
Handzus


And on Seto, I think it was his attitude that allowed DW to deal him. And if he hasn't grownup, there is no reason to trade for him.

Gilligans Island is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 10:44 AM
  #129
MarleauApologist
I no much like LA
 
MarleauApologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,765
vCash: 500
Sharks fans hadn't soured on Seto; I was super excited to get Burns, but I didn't want Setoguchi gone at all. It's just that the things we traded were not anything I valued as high as a No. 1 defenseman.

MarleauApologist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 10:47 AM
  #130
bullslugg
HFBoards Sponsor
 
bullslugg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cali central valley
Posts: 269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yup, agreed, and there is no way DW brings him back knowing that. He wants nothing to do with that kind of attitude.

Also, people mentioning Sheppard in trade scenario's... cut that out. The guy is one of the couple bottom-6 players we have who looks like he has the skill to potentially be a top-6 player/fill in. He's gotten better every game and in the last few games he's looking like our most dangerous bottom 6 player most shifts. If he can take another step or two he could end up being an absolute steal of a pickup. His point totals don't show it yet but he's doing all the right things on the ice and if he keeps that up he's going to put up points.
Could not agree more. I see confidence rising with every game. Even after a serious career threatening injury, he's skating very well. Seems to have a very good hockey IQ. I'm really pullin for this kid to make it.

bullslugg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 10:57 AM
  #131
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,491
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Sharks fans hadn't soured on Seto; I was super excited to get Burns, but I didn't want Setoguchi gone at all. It's just that the things we traded were not anything I valued as high as a No. 1 defenseman.
i think you should go read the are you glad we traded seto thread, or even the seto appreciation thread.

the i'm glad group is the majority when it comes to seto.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:03 AM
  #132
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
He wants nothing to do with that kind of attitude.
Well, according to DW, he had talks with and re-signed Setoguchi a few weeks before Burns was even available, so he was willing to deal with it for at least another 3 seasons. Maybe he was hoping Setoguchi would grow out of his immaturity.
What he feels about Setoguchi now (with everything that's going on with Minnesota) is a different story. I do think he's growing out of it though. Apparently, he had a great off-season. He lost weight and bulked up, knowing that what he was doing in seasons prior wasn't cutting it. He's always been a streaky player but there is no doubt that his physicality, speed, and shot would help the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Right now, I'd rank our bottom 6 as follows:

Sheppard
Gomez

Desjardins

Burish

Wingels
Handzus
I really don't think Handzus has been as bad as people are making him out to be. I'd go

Sheppard

Gomez
Handzus
Galiardi

Desjardins

Burish/Wingels

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:07 AM
  #133
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,491
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Well, according to DW, he had talks with and re-signed Setoguchi a few weeks before Burns was even available, so he was willing to deal with it for at least another 3 seasons. Maybe he was hoping Setoguchi would grow out of his immaturity.
What he feels about Setoguchi now (with everything that's going on with Minnesota) is a different story. I do think he's growing out of it though. Apparently, he had a great off-season. He lost weight and bulked up, knowing that what he was doing in seasons prior wasn't cutting it. He's always been a streaky player but there is no doubt that his physicality, speed, and shot would help the team.



I really don't think Handzus has been as bad as people are making him out to be. I'd go

Sheppard

Gomez
Handzus
Galiardi

Desjardins

Burish/Wingels
yeah this board seems to take into account what he did last year and don't take the time to stop and actually watch what he is doing this year.

the majority of the bottom 6 is playing good and getting chances, they just can't seem to bury them.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:25 AM
  #134
Tkachuk4MVP
22 Years of Fail
 
Tkachuk4MVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 8,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
yeah this board seems to take into account what he did last year and don't take the time to stop and actually watch what he is doing this year.

the majority of the bottom 6 is playing good and getting chances, they just can't seem to bury them.

He's been much better than he was last year and a step above most of our bottom six, but he's still a black hole offensively and is dragging Havlat down big time. More importantly, there is ZERO reason why he should be the even strength TOI leader. That's on the coaches I know, but that's probably one of the reasons why everyone gets so upset when they hear the name Handzus.

Tkachuk4MVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:33 AM
  #135
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,491
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
He's been much better than he was last year and a step above most of our bottom six, but he's still a black hole offensively and is dragging Havlat down big time. More importantly, there is ZERO reason why he should be the even strength TOI leader. That's on the coaches I know, but that's probably one of the reasons why everyone gets so upset when they hear the name Handzus.
this year is a lot different then any normal year. the coaching staff has to do a lot of weird decisions this year, that will not make sense from a fans perspective.

the top 6 cannot be playing 20+ minutes a night regularly this season, it will just kill them (no matter how good of shape they are in)

the coaching staff (unless have a big lead), wants the top players to play more on the power play (best offensive chances), then spend more time playing 5 on 5 hockey.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:36 AM
  #136
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,799
vCash: 500
Handzus is the even strength time on ice leader because Clowe keep's getting idiotic penalties and they have Handzus fill in for him and still cover his own line too half the time. Also, we are spending so much time in the defensive end they've got him out there constantly for face-offs, then he gets stuck. Not justifying it, just explaining it.

On Seto, of course DW was willing to sign him, he's not going to just let a valuable asset walk even if he doesn't like his attitude. Seto signed his own trade papers when he forced a deal on DW that made himself expendable. Seto was worth a lot more with a 3 year $3m contact than as an RFA.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:39 AM
  #137
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,491
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Handzus is the even strength time on ice leader because Clowe keep's getting idiotic penalties and they have Handzus fill in for him and still cover his own line too half the time. Also, we are spending so much time in the defensive end they've got him out there constantly for face-offs, then he gets stuck. Not justifying it, just explaining it.

On Seto, of course DW was willing to sign him, he's not going to just let a valuable asset walk even if he doesn't like his attitude. Seto signed his own trade papers when he forced a deal on DW that made himself expendable. Seto was worth a lot more with a 3 year $3m contact than as an RFA.
handzus isn't the team leader, just in that game he was apparently (didn't see the numbers), for the season so far he is 5th among forwards for even strength time. marleau being the only top 6 below him, but marleau's low time can be accounted for in his pp time and pk time.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:41 AM
  #138
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
On Seto, of course DW was willing to sign him, he's not going to just let a valuable asset walk even if he doesn't like his attitude. Seto signed his own trade papers when he forced a deal on DW that made himself expendable. Seto was worth a lot more with a 3 year $3m contact than as an RFA.
My point is, DW was willing to deal with his immaturity (and it looks like Setoguchi somewhat grew out of it). If Burns wasn't available, Setoguchi probably wouldn't have gotten traded.

Handzus also gets the most offensive zone FOs on the team, but I see your general point. It's time like those where you can't really believe advanced stats too closely. I've noticed a lot this season that when the first and second line turn possession over after being in the offensive zone, Handzus' line goes out and takes over the defensive zone responsibilities. It's pretty hard to get a good on-ice Corsi when you're playing defense during a transition.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 11:44 AM
  #139
Tkachuk4MVP
22 Years of Fail
 
Tkachuk4MVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 8,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Handzus is the even strength time on ice leader because Clowe keep's getting idiotic penalties and they have Handzus fill in for him and still cover his own line too half the time. Also, we are spending so much time in the defensive end they've got him out there constantly for face-offs, then he gets stuck. Not justifying it, just explaining it.

Those 2nd line minutes should be going to Gomez and/or Havlat, not Handzus. I understand having him out there to take draws, that makes some sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
handzus isn't the team leader, just in that game he was apparently (didn't see the numbers), for the season so far he is 5th among forwards for even strength time. marleau being the only top 6 below him, but marleau's low time can be accounted for in his pp time and pk time.

Thanks for the info, I'll back away from the ledge a bit.

Tkachuk4MVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 12:32 PM
  #140
19sharks19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: T.O. to S.J. & back
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I agree on Sheppard. He is improving well. Even last night, after Easy pointed out he was weak along the boards, I watched and he seemed to do just fine sustaining play along the boards.

Right now, I'd rank our bottom 6 as follows:

Sheppard
Gomez

Desjardins

Burish

Wingels
Handzus


And on Seto, I think it was his attitude that allowed DW to deal him. And if he hasn't grownup, there is no reason to trade for him.
Agree. What I would like to see;

Pavs/Jumbo/Patty
Havlat/Couture/Gomez
Clowe/Sheppard/Wingels
Burish/handzus/Desi

Havlat is totally being wasted alongside Handzus and the third line and Gomez is being destroyed on the 4th and with occassional / very little play time on other lines.

19sharks19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 01:31 PM
  #141
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 11,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Well, according to DW, he had talks with and re-signed Setoguchi a few weeks before Burns was even available, so he was willing to deal with it for at least another 3 seasons. Maybe he was hoping Setoguchi would grow out of his immaturity.
What he feels about Setoguchi now (with everything that's going on with Minnesota) is a different story. I do think he's growing out of it though. Apparently, he had a great off-season. He lost weight and bulked up, knowing that what he was doing in seasons prior wasn't cutting it. He's always been a streaky player but there is no doubt that his physicality, speed, and shot would help the team.



I really don't think Handzus has been as bad as people are making him out to be. I'd go

Sheppard

Gomez
Handzus
Galiardi

Desjardins

Burish/Wingels
I agree that Sheppard looked better against the Ducks. Galiardi is a blackhole. Wingels started hot and he is sort of in between his start and the last couple of games. It seemed to change after a hit a few games back where I thought he was concussed. Burish is probably the poorest guy with the stick in the bottom six and Handzus hurts because he needs an extra tick to get into position to use his size although once there he is OK. Gomez is doing more than I thought. The problem for Desi is that he doesn't anticipate the boards well but he can hold and pass the puck a bit. It doesn't work for Desi to play wing. I don't rate Wingels low because I credit him with previous performance and I think he will come out of it.

In watching, they are overplaying the strong side exit again and opponent teams are stifling it. The top line does well because they will exit middle and occasionally go rink wide. I liked that a couple of the younger dmen would do outlets up the middle when possible. The transition strategy is stifling the team. Part of the note about collapsing defenses and open points was that the counter to that opponent strategy is to beat the opponent to their end. It isn't point shots or working the perimeter. It is getting to their zone before they have a chance to set up. Exits up the boards slow the transition and absolutely kill the bottom lines who can't work the puck around the zone as effectively as the big guys.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 01:47 PM
  #142
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I agree that Sheppard looked better against the Ducks. Galiardi is a blackhole. Wingels started hot and he is sort of in between his start and the last couple of games. It seemed to change after a hit a few games back where I thought he was concussed. Burish is probably the poorest guy with the stick in the bottom six and Handzus hurts because he needs an extra tick to get into position to use his size although once there he is OK. Gomez is doing more than I thought. The problem for Desi is that he doesn't anticipate the boards well but he can hold and pass the puck a bit. It doesn't work for Desi to play wing. I don't rate Wingels low because I credit him with previous performance and I think he will come out of it.

In watching, they are overplaying the strong side exit again and opponent teams are stifling it. The top line does well because they will exit middle and occasionally go rink wide. I liked that a couple of the younger dmen would do outlets up the middle when possible. The transition strategy is stifling the team. Part of the note about collapsing defenses and open points was that the counter to that opponent strategy is to beat the opponent to their end. It isn't point shots or working the perimeter. It is getting to their zone before they have a chance to set up. Exits up the boards slow the transition and absolutely kill the bottom lines who can't work the puck around the zone as effectively as the big guys.
I agree across the board. These are the problems as I see them (and they are big problems sadly).

1) Total lack of team confidence in one another. You can see hesitation in just about every pass and shot. Everyone is gunshy about turning the puck over and so are turning the puck over, it's a viscous cycle. This might fix itself, the guys need a few days off and a couple good practices maybe, but beyond that this is probably where the coaches are the only ones who can fix it.

2) Not taking shots on the rush. This probably has at least somewhat to do with the lack of confidence, but the pass first mentality has ramped upto the extreme here. The only guys consistently shooting the puck on the rush are Marleau, Desi, and Couture. Havlat and Pavelski seem to be about 50/50, everyone else is passing first. This needs to stop, immediately. Skate the puck into the zone, to the net, and get a shot on net. Make sure the puck is on net. If you want to setup, do it after a rebound or face-off.

3) Lack of communication. Little things like dropping the puck when there is no one there to retrieve it. That happens because either you missunderstood the play or the person who was supposed to be there did. There appears to a fundamental break down in what each player thinks is supposed to be going on at any given moment. The machine is broken. Other examples are taking a slap shot from the point wide when no one is ready on the far board to receive it. Passing into the slot when no one is there. Taking a shot when no one is screening, etc. These are all signs that a team is not on the same page.

4) Stop icing guys who are not buying in. This means Galiardi, Wingels, Burish, Clowe mostly. If they are not going to play the way the team needs then either reduce their ice time, scratch them, or trade them. The team needs to play as a team and if you are not going to be a part of that you won't be playing.


Good news is the PK is phenomenal. Not just in results but in mechanics. If the guys could get on bored offensively the same way they are doing on the PK they would be unstoppable.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 01:56 PM
  #143
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
 
Kitten Mittons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Country: Armenia
Posts: 46,750
vCash: 500
I want to have Clowe, Murray, and TJ traded for a couple of fast, puck chasing 2nd line tweeners.

Marleau-Thornton-tweener
Sheppard-Couture-Havlat
tweener-Gomez-Pavelski
Wingels-Desi-Burish
(or you know, you could always pair the tweeners with Gomez but he's Wellwood-esque so he needs a good shooter like Pavs)

Bench Handzus. Never was a fan of our 1st line. Keep them for the PP.

Kitten Mittons is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 01:58 PM
  #144
19sharks19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: T.O. to S.J. & back
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,460
vCash: 500
Teams will just forcheck the heck out of our top two lines and have no worry of the bottom six unless some change(s) are made. Utilizing the lines more effectively (eg. when we had that awesome start, the top two lines remained intact. Since the constant shuffling, we have seen a massive reversal of fortunes, back to what St. Louis exposed in eliminating us last season). As mentioned earlier, Clowe is definitely on the downswing and, i'd love to see his starting spot on the 2nd replaced by Gomez ALONG with moving Havlat back beside Couture as well. The bottom six....much work to be done and, earlier the better. Not thinking we should ride them out until late season hoping they catch some sort of spark or something.

19sharks19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 03:02 PM
  #145
Squeeven
Registered User
 
Squeeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Handzus is a UFA after this season. Are you talking about this current year as being "one more year"?

Also, given that DW spent a 3rd on Sheppard, I doubt he's going to trade him away already, especially for an impending UFA like MacArthur.
Oh yeah my bad, he is a UFA after this season, nice. And yeah that's a good point. I'm not sure who DW might go after, hopefully someone useful though. I do wonder however if he's actually trying to get rid of Murray though.

Squeeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 03:27 PM
  #146
Trojan35
Registered User
 
Trojan35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,492
vCash: 500
Wilson only trades with Minnesota now.

Murray for Setoguchi

Trojan35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 03:28 PM
  #147
dwood16
Registered User
 
dwood16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: L.A.
Country: United States
Posts: 1,649
vCash: 500
McGinn would look good right about now.

Him with Gomez and sheppard sounds like a pretty good balanced 3rd line.

Wow that trade is gonna be the thing that keeps us from being the best team in the league this season. TJ Galiardi is *****! complete *****!

dwood16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 03:44 PM
  #148
Mafoofoo
Hockey
 
Mafoofoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 12,259
vCash: 500
Speaking of Seto does anyone else think even though he's in Minny his heart is still here in SJ?

Mafoofoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 03:45 PM
  #149
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
McGinn would look good right about now.

Him with Gomez and sheppard sounds like a pretty good balanced 3rd line.

Wow that trade is gonna be the thing that keeps us from being the best team in the league this season. TJ Galiardi is *****! complete *****!
Unless McGinn plays like Crosby, he's not the thing that's keeping the Sharks from being the best team in the league...
McGinn was riding on high percentages last year. In reality, Galiardi and McGinn are very similar caliber players. Put Galiardi with Couture and Havlat like they are putting McGinn with Stastny, and he'd produce as well (iirc, his two assists were when he was on an extended shift with Couture and Havlat).
Don't get me wrong, it was still a bad trade since DW probably could've gotten Galiardi alone for a lot less than what he gave up.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2013, 03:48 PM
  #150
Lezgosharkz13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 38
vCash: 500
I got it we are gonna trade burns to min for seto and coyle back and trade handzus and galiardi for mcginn back and look like this

marleau thornton pavelski
clowe couture havlat
mcginn gomez seto
coyle desjardins burish

our current D

DW - "I've looked into the reset button... THE SCIENCE IS IMPOSSIBLE :*("

Lezgosharkz13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.