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2012-2013 Blues Prospects

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02-05-2013, 12:24 PM
  #551
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by Baby Blues View Post
So I've seen this in 3 threads now...what the heck does this mean?!?? A city is keeping players from developing?? Are you talking about the Rivermen organization? Rivermen are owned by the Blues...the GM and coaching staff are picked by the Blues. Also the coaching staff has changed often, so its not some on-going coaching culture in Peoria.

If you are talking about the city, please explain your theory on the correlation to development. If you are talking about the organization, shouldn't the comment be the Blues aren't good at developing prospects.

More likely its that good draft picks like Backes and Polak developed well in Peoria and poor picks like Ponich and Schwarz (the goalie) didn't develop further.
I am not blaming the actual city at all. I think we have poor player development below the NHL level. It seems like most of our prospects that succeed develop in somewhere other then our AHL team. Even Backes spent 4 years in the NCAA first to develop.

Guys like Sonne, McRea, Allen, Della Rova seem to be almost worst players then they were when they first arrived to the AHL.

It seems like a lot of prospects have a good decent first season in Peoria but then they seem to get worse the next season and so on.

Also Peoria just has not been a very good team in general the best season has been when Payne was coaching them. But they often are not a playoff team less then half the time lately.

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02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
  #552
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It is all about the organisation, not the city. We can dress it up all we want, but for all the guys we have drafted that are in our team, I would only really consider Polįk as having developed there.

As pointed out, Backes developed in NCAA. When he left college and finished that year in NCAA he got off to a quick start. When he went back the following season he still performed well, but what limited production there was basically all came on the PP. The Blues actually only called him up when we were skating 7 defensemen!

Are things as bad as some of us might think? Probably not, but I don't really see any positive signs from player development there. Hopefully there will be an influx of talent over the summer and that pushes things in the right direction.

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02-05-2013, 02:40 PM
  #553
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The question is really is it the AHL team not doing well developing or are the players simply not what we thought?

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02-05-2013, 02:58 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I am not blaming the actual city at all. I think we have poor player development below the NHL level. It seems like most of our prospects that succeed develop in somewhere other then our AHL team. Even Backes spent 4 years in the NCAA first to develop.

Guys like Sonne, McRea, Allen, Della Rova seem to be almost worst players then they were when they first arrived to the AHL.

These are prospects. The problem with them all is they may not have been NHL players to begin with. Sonne put up a lot of numbers, but was never much of a skater and there was a lot of questions about how his game would translate to the NHL. Look at what McRae did in the CHL - point per game pace, nothing more. He was the 13 forward on team USA at the WJC.

Allen is a goalie and like all goalies he has a long way to go. Plus the fact that there are two dman playing w/ the Rivermen that has NHL upside is Fairchild and Woywitka who is a journeyman.... He has been up and down for sure, but he is only 22 at this point. He has a couple of years to go before we can really worry about him.

Della Rovere was a projected bottom 6 in the NHL. He just turned 23 and we have not seen what he can do at the NHL level because we have had too many forward.


It seems like a lot of prospects have a good decent first season in Peoria but then they seem to get worse the next season and so on.

Sophmore slump could explain 2nd year drop offs.

Also Peoria just has not been a very good team in general the best season has been when Payne was coaching them. But they often are not a playoff team less then half the time lately.
The biggest problem with lack of development w/ the Rivermen may actually be lack of NHL talent to begin with. Oshie, Perron, Backes..... were all able to bypass the AHl because when they entered the league - well, we stunk. No other way to put it. The Blues were horrid and those players made the jump because we had no depth.

The only true question mark I have about development has been McRae, but he didn't dominate the CHL like some of the other guys did their respective leagues. Is he a legit top 6 center? I don't know. He doesn't get the chance because he is behind Berglund and Backes. And for the 3rd line this year, we couldn't put him in because we would have 1 too many forwards on the team. That is why Steen is playing there.

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02-05-2013, 02:58 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
The question is really is it the AHL team not doing well developing or are the players simply not what we thought?
The players we have down in Peoria are going to be career AHL'ers.

Porter may get a shot on 4th/3rd line somewhere but its not here.
Mcrae could be a 3rd/4th line center but not here.
If Fairchild continues to progress he could eventually be a 5/6 or 3/4 defenseman.

Aside from that all other prospects in Peoria to me are going to be career AHL'ers.

Oh I forgot Jake Allen most liekly won't be a career AHL'er.

The problem I think is not only poor drafting but lack of experience for some of these kids due to the Blues depth for the past year. You look back and then look at now, we are using less and less kids from Peoria each year because of our depth.

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Old
02-05-2013, 03:07 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
The biggest problem with lack of development w/ the Rivermen may actually be lack of NHL talent to begin with. Oshie, Perron, Backes..... were all able to bypass the AHl because when they entered the league - well, we stunk. No other way to put it. The Blues were horrid and those players made the jump because we had no depth.

The only true question mark I have about development has been McRae, but he didn't dominate the CHL like some of the other guys did their respective leagues. Is he a legit top 6 center? I don't know. He doesn't get the chance because he is behind Berglund and Backes. And for the 3rd line this year, we couldn't put him in because we would have 1 too many forwards on the team. That is why Steen is playing there.
If Phil McRae was a legit top 6 center, it would be quite obvious. Players like Ian Cole and Jaden Schwartz definitely stood out when they were playing for the Rivermen. Not just among their teammates, but their competition also. They were both noticeably better. Schwartz is now struggling to hold a 3rd line spot, and Cole is in and out of the starting line up. McRae is probably capable of being the 3rd or 4th line center on a very weak NHL team, but he doesn't really belong there.

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02-08-2013, 06:43 PM
  #557
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Jordan Schmaltz and the Fighting Sioux are on NBCSN right now. Game just started.

Eddie Belfour's son is in the cage for their opponent, Nebraska-Omaha.

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02-08-2013, 07:34 PM
  #558
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2 goals for Jaskin so far tonight!

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02-08-2013, 09:00 PM
  #559
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2 goals for Jaskin so far tonight!


Maybe that Jagr comparison isn't far fetched after all.

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02-09-2013, 07:34 AM
  #560
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Jordan Schmaltz and the Fighting Sioux are on NBCSN right now. Game just started.

Eddie Belfour's son is in the cage for their opponent, Nebraska-Omaha.
How does he look? I missed the game.

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02-09-2013, 01:03 PM
  #561
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How does he look? I missed the game.
I only saw the first two periods, but he was good. He's a lot stronger than I thought he would be by the look of him. He was able to pin some bigger guys to the glass with ease. He made some good passes, closed the gap pretty well, and was really defensively solid. He didn't do anything in the offensive game that wow'd me, but he did make some nice transition passes. The only way I can really describe his game last night is solid. Hardly noticeable, but in a good way. Didn't do anything stupid.

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02-09-2013, 01:30 PM
  #562
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Thanks for the writeup. When we drafted him, I remember watching clips of him and noticing how much he stood out on the offensive end. Just a great passer. To read, he's doing fine defensively is a pleasant surprise, actually, I hope it continues. To have this kid develop into a top 4 would be huge for this organization.

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02-09-2013, 01:55 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Blues0307 View Post
Thanks for the writeup. When we drafted him, I remember watching clips of him and noticing how much he stood out on the offensive end. Just a great passer. To read, he's doing fine defensively is a pleasant surprise, actually, I hope it continues. To have this kid develop into a top 4 would be huge for this organization.
At this point with Schmaltz I am not expecting to make it to the top 4, but won't rule it out either. He just has so much work to do before their is anyway to get a good read on him.

I did thoroughly enjoy the write up! Keep em coming.

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02-09-2013, 02:32 PM
  #564
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At this point with Schmaltz I am not expecting to make it to the top 4, but won't rule it out either. He just has so much work to do before their is anyway to get a good read on him.

I did thoroughly enjoy the write up! Keep em coming.
Do you see him currently projecting to a 3rd pairing NHL regular and PP specialist (loosely like a Chris Russell?)? Admittedly, he'll have to add a lot of strength, bulk and also develop his defensive positioning skills and body awareness(knowledge of use of leverage and use of body bulk to impede forwards, etc. that comes with experience and maturity.

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02-09-2013, 02:52 PM
  #565
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If Schmaltz is only an NHL bottom pair defenseman who can be a PP specialist then it's a terrible first round pick. When he was drafted he was labeled definitively as a top-4 defenseman. The Blues told reporters they liked him because he projected as a top-4 defenseman.

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02-09-2013, 04:45 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
If Schmaltz is only an NHL bottom pair defenseman who can be a PP specialist then it's a terrible first round pick. When he was drafted he was labeled definitively as a top-4 defenseman. The Blues told reporters they liked him because he projected as a top-4 defenseman.
Not every defenseman picked in the first round is going to be a top-4 guy. I'd be VERY pleased if Schmaltz can be a top-6 D man with a great PP. The guy was a late first round pick, I'm not sure what you guys were expecting. Even defenseman picked in the top 5 like Hedman and Bogosian are not even top-4 D-man.

Schmaltz is very intriguing, and I like the future of seeing him compliment Petro and Shatty. This year's draft it's time to add another forward.

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02-09-2013, 04:55 PM
  #567
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Not every defenseman picked in the first round is going to be a top-4 guy. I'd be VERY pleased if Schmaltz can be a top-6 D man with a great PP. The guy was a late first round pick, I'm not sure what you guys were expecting. Even defenseman picked in the top 5 like Hedman and Bogosian are not even top-4 D-man.

Schmaltz is very intriguing, and I like the future of seeing him compliment Petro and Shatty. This year's draft it's time to add another forward.
I know very little about Schmaltz as I haven't been able to see much at all of him, but if he is projecting to be a bottom pairing D-man less than a year after the draft then it is a terrible pick. While not all first round picks pay off, the issue with the pick would be the fact that expectations had fallen away so soon. As I said though, I know next to nothing about the kid and I'm sure that the organization still has high hopes for him.

And Hedman and Bogosian are both undoubtedly top 4 D-men.

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02-09-2013, 05:23 PM
  #568
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Not every defenseman picked in the first round is going to be a top-4 guy. I'd be VERY pleased if Schmaltz can be a top-6 D man with a great PP. The guy was a late first round pick, I'm not sure what you guys were expecting. Even defenseman picked in the top 5 like Hedman and Bogosian are not even top-4 D-man.

Schmaltz is very intriguing, and I like the future of seeing him compliment Petro and Shatty. This year's draft it's time to add another forward.
Bogo and Hedman are both top 4.

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02-09-2013, 05:23 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by reavesthemaniac View Post
Not every defenseman picked in the first round is going to be a top-4 guy. I'd be VERY pleased if Schmaltz can be a top-6 D man with a great PP. The guy was a late first round pick, I'm not sure what you guys were expecting. Even defenseman picked in the top 5 like Hedman and Bogosian are not even top-4 D-man.

Schmaltz is very intriguing, and I like the future of seeing him compliment Petro and Shatty. This year's draft it's time to add another forward.
No, a bottom-pairing defenseman with a 25th overall pick is a draft failure, period. I would NEVER expect a bottom pairing defenseman with a first round pick and it would always be a bad pick if that happened.

Regardless, the Blues explained that the reason they picked him was because he's a top-4 dman. That's what they said when they picked him. If, 7.5 months after the draft, he's no longer got that potential it's a bad pick.

However, 7.5 months after the draft there's no reason to assume he's only a bottom-pairing potential player. I kind of think he'll either be a top-4 guy or won't be in the NHL.

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02-09-2013, 05:27 PM
  #570
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No, a bottom-pairing defenseman with a 25th overall pick is a draft failure, period. I would NEVER expect a bottom pairing defenseman with a first round pick and it would always be a bad pick if that happened.

Regardless, the Blues explained that the reason they picked him was because he's a top-4 dman. That's what they said when they picked him. If, 7.5 months after the draft, he's no longer got that potential it's a bad pick.

However, 7.5 months after the draft there's no reason to assume he's only a bottom-pairing potential player. I kind of think he'll either be a top-4 guy or won't be in the NHL.
I'm not ready to deem him a failure....He's a freshman. Actually for a freshman, his stats aren't half bad. I'd be more worried about Kurker than him or Parayko at this point.


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02-09-2013, 05:32 PM
  #571
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I'm not ready to deem him a failure....He's a freshman. Actually for a freshman, his stats aren't half bad. I'd be more worried about Kurker than him or Parayko at this point.
He's not calling him a failure, he's saying we aren't in a position to judge his potential and we should trust our scouts who believe he is a future top 4.

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02-09-2013, 07:24 PM
  #572
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Just to clarify, I am not say Schmaltz will not be a top 4 guy. Rather, he has a ton of work to do if he wants to become one. The kid has the physical abilities to be a top 4, but is lacking in many areas. He is a long-term, high risk, high reward player. Right now, in my eyes, he is not a sure bet to be a top 4 guy, but like I said he has a long way to go before we will be able to confidently give a projection.

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02-10-2013, 08:47 AM
  #573
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Rattie a goal and three assists last night.

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02-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #574
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Rattie a goal and three assists last night.
Rattie was starting to get quite a bit behind Jaskin in points, but lately he has been putting on a show and catching up.

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02-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #575
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There's no way anyone can predict at this point that Schmaltz won't likely be a Top 4 defenceman in The NHL. His current "far away" position is due to his lack of experience, rather than lack of size, hockey sense or skilled hands. He is capable of learning all he needs to know to round out his game, and he'll have ample time to do that learning, and time for his body to mature, and to gain the strength he'll need.

I'm not worried about him at this point. He seems to be progressing decently in his 1st college season.

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