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Did Pens fans overrate Jordan Staal?

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02-05-2013, 01:18 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post

All i'm saying is that IN MY OPINION the canes overpaid for Jordan Staal. He's a great fit as a second line center, but I'm of the opinion that you don't pay $6 million for guys that aren't bona fide first line players. You know who else's cap hits are around $6 million? Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Daniel Sedin, Henrik Sedin, Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Backstrom.
Did you know that Jordan Staal is outscoring everyone on that list, save for Kane and Zetterberg?

And he has a game in hand over some of said players.

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02-05-2013, 01:20 PM
  #202
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
All i'm saying is that IN MY OPINION the canes overpaid for Jordan Staal. He's a great fit as a second line center, but I'm of the opinion that you don't pay $6 million for guys that aren't bona fide first line players. You know who else's cap hits are around $6 million? Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Daniel Sedin, Henrik Sedin, Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Backstrom.
Personally, I'd rather pay 24yo Jordan Staal 6M / year than guys like Hemsky $5M and Horcoff $6M.

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02-05-2013, 02:00 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Did you know that Jordan Staal is outscoring everyone on that list, save for Kane and Zetterberg?

And he has a game in hand over some of said players.
Ya, 8 games is a pretty good sample size, I'm sure that will hold up for a full season...

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02-05-2013, 02:03 PM
  #204
Luigi Lemieux
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To see Staal's real value you have to get into more advanced statistics, such as quality of competition. As you can see Staal played by far the toughest minutes on the penguins last year.


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02-05-2013, 02:08 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Personally, I'd rather pay 24yo Jordan Staal 6M / year than guys like Hemsky $5M and Horcoff $6M.
Well no kidding...you assume that just because I'm an Oilers fan that I agree with those contracts? It is very well known that Horcoff is overpaid with his cap-hit of 5.5 million, in fact it is one of the most overkilled topics here in Edmonton sports.
And btw, Hemsky is on a two yeat, $4million contract right now...2 million per, not 5. He was paid 5million back a few years ago because he was the Oilers go-to offensive player, which definitely isn't the case now.

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02-05-2013, 02:11 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
And btw, Hemsky is on a two yeat, $4million contract right now...2 million per, not 5. He was paid 5million back a few years ago because he was the Oilers go-to offensive player, which definitely isn't the case now.
You sure about that?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...005853837.html

http://www.capgeek.com/player/12

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02-05-2013, 02:21 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
My bad for messing that one up.
It's obviously overpaying for Hemsky, but that contract isn't terrible for the Oilers, it's only two years and there isn't any cap trouble in Edmonton at the moment. I think it was basically to get another look at him and see if they want to keep him around. If he re-signs then I can't see it being for that much, because Hall and Eberle will be making 6million next year, and Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov soon enough.

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02-05-2013, 02:39 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
I said AROUND $6million, not exactly $6 million.
According to nhlnumbers.com:

Kane, Toews: $6.3 million
Daniel, Henrik Sedin: $6.1 million
Zetterberg: $6.083 million
Backstrom: $6.0 million

And there's no way to guarantee who will be more or less valuable for the next 10 years; players can drop off and new players can establish themselves at any time.

Ok, but what you're doing is listing guys ABOVE Staal at different positions as a comparison, without showing us what's below him at the same position.

How about this list of centers...

Mike Cammalleri $6m
Patrik Elias $6m
Jordan Staal $6m
Mike Richards $5.75m
Mikhail Grabovski $5.5m
Shawn Horcoff $5.5m
John Tavares $5.5m
Ryan Getzlaf $5.33m
Jeff Carter $5.27m
David Krejci $5.25m
Mike Ribeiro $5m


Tavares consciously took a discount.
Getzlaf and Elias are both on expiring long-term deals.
Cammalleri makes $7m in real cash.
Richards makes $8.4m in real cash, and Carter makes $6.25m... both are on back-diving deals to reduce the cap hit.
After Richards and Carter, Staal has the longest term of any player on the list... and he is the youngest player after Tavares.

If you look at the whole landscape and take all factors into account, his contract is totally reasonable. Not a steal by any means, but right in line with what you would expect in order to guarantee the services of a 24 year old center of his caliber for the next decade.

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02-05-2013, 02:42 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
Ya, 8 games is a pretty good sample size, I'm sure that will hold up for a full season...
Why wouldn't it?

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02-05-2013, 02:43 PM
  #210
Boom Boom Anton
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One thing to note, Staal is getting paid $4.5M this year ($4M cap hit). It isn't until next year that the $6M /year contract kicks in.

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02-05-2013, 02:52 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
One thing to note, Staal is getting paid $4.5M this year ($4M cap hit). It isn't until next year that the $6M /year contract kicks in.
good point

i think it is a very good contract for the Canes unless the Cap goes down a lot

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02-05-2013, 03:31 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Why wouldn't it?
Because some players get off to really fast starts, and some get off to really slow starts. I absolutely hate the Canucks, but you really think that Jordan Staal will outscore the Sedin's
for a full season? Unlikely. Same for Backstrom, Toews.

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02-05-2013, 03:36 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Did you know that Jordan Staal is outscoring everyone on that list, save for Kane and Zetterberg?

And he has a game in hand over some of said players.
Excellent Pwnst!

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02-05-2013, 03:44 PM
  #214
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I agree 8 games is a small sample size so drawing conclusions (either good or bad) from it is suspect. While I don't expect Jordan to be a PPG player (which is where he is now through 8 games), last year he had 50 points in 62 games getting about 2 min / game on the PP. This year he is getting almost 4 min / game on the PP so far, so it's not unreasonable to say he'll score a bit more than he did last year.

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02-05-2013, 11:53 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt19Oilers View Post
Because some players get off to really fast starts, and some get off to really slow starts. I absolutely hate the Canucks, but you really think that Jordan Staal will outscore the Sedin's
for a full season? Unlikely. Same for Backstrom, Toews.
But that's not the point.

The point is that, so far into his career as a Carolina Hurricane, he has produced comparable numbers to the best players who are paid a similar salary (not to mention the "lesser" players that you conveniently ignore).

His numbers in Pittsburgh are irrelevant. He is in a totally new situation, with new linemates, responsibilities and expectations.

If you think he's overpaid, that's fine. Bump this thread when the numbers prove you right.

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