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Do we need a heavyweight enforcer...

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #376
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The Bruins probably get cheapshotted more than the Habs do, I guess they need an enforcer.
Has nothing to do with getting cheapshotted. A team that wins it all has to respect itself first and foremost. If we walk with the head between our legs and keep trying to convince ourselves that "it's not our game", we'll never get that self-respect, and the other teams will keep not respecting us.

As for the cheapshots... Really? Besides Savard and Bergeron (respectively 3 and almost 6 years ago), can you name other examples? A heavy weight won't deter a nutcase from cheapshotting anyone, but it sure as hell will make him think twice before abusing our players after the whistle, and intimidating our young guys both verbally and physically.

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Originally Posted by Bieber fever View Post
Replace Armstrong with clowe ( or someone like him) this summer.
Bring Tinordi next year.

No need for an HW
Clowe is what I'd consider an heavyweight. This guy is a beast. Would completely nullify the Lucic factor on the Bruins.

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02-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #377
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John Scott bear swiped Subban and gave Montreal a power play. He was completely useless.



Chara and Lucic weren't concussing anyone on Montreal until Montreal got yappy and fighty. Komisarek was doing fine aggravating Lucic all of the time, drops his gloves to prove how tough he is and got smashed. Pacioretty decided to lip off at Chara after scoring a goal and Chara made sure he paid for it. You know who will fight Chara and make him pay for it? Nobody. Nobody in the league can take down Chara. That's why Boston paid him so much when he was a UFA.

Honestly I think Hab fans are so soft as fans that all they can do is hope someone comes in and makes them feel big and tough. Makes me laugh. Larry Robinson wasn't much of a fighter but that was all Montreal really needed in the 70s to keep the worst of the Flyers in check. I think Jarred Tinordi will play a similar role plus actually play hockey.
Revisionist history. Montreal had guys like Doug Riseborough, Mario Tremblay, Pierre Bouchard, Rick Chartraw, Lambert, Lupien, Langway... The toughness was spread around very nicely in those lineups

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02-05-2013, 02:23 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Has nothing to do with getting cheapshotted. A team that wins it all has to respect itself first and foremost. If we walk with the head between our legs and keep trying to convince ourselves that "it's not our game", we'll never get that self-respect, and the other teams will keep not respecting us.

As for the cheapshots... Really? Besides Savard and Bergeron (respectively 3 and almost 6 years ago), can you name other examples? A heavy weight won't deter a nutcase from cheapshotting anyone, but it sure as hell will make him think twice before abusing our players after the whistle, and intimidating our young guys both verbally and physically.



Clowe is what I'd consider an heavyweight. This guy is a beast. Would completely nullify the Lucic factor on the Bruins.
Great post. Agree 100%

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02-05-2013, 02:33 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Has nothing to do with getting cheapshotted. A team that wins it all has to respect itself first and foremost. If we walk with the head between our legs and keep trying to convince ourselves that "it's not our game", we'll never get that self-respect, and the other teams will keep not respecting us.

As for the cheapshots... Really? Besides Savard and Bergeron (respectively 3 and almost 6 years ago), can you name other examples? A heavy weight won't deter a nutcase from cheapshotting anyone, but it sure as hell will make him think twice before abusing our players after the whistle, and intimidating our young guys both verbally and physically.



Clowe is what I'd consider an heavyweight. This guy is a beast. Would completely nullify the Lucic factor on the Bruins.
Not sure I'd consider him a heavyweight, but I'd love to have him. Not many here wouldn't. He's exactly what tons of people in this thread are clamoring for. We just don't want useless players like Scott.

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02-05-2013, 02:55 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post

As for the cheapshots... Really? Besides Savard and Bergeron (respectively 3 and almost 6 years ago), can you name other examples?
Bergeron also got concussed for second time in the playoff series vs the Flyers when Boston blew the 3-0 series lead. Krecji got concussed that very same series as well. Horton got concussed against the Canucks. Subban almost killed Marchand with a clean hit as well; Marchand is lucky Subban used his back instead of his shoulder or we could have seen the same thing.


Last edited by Andy: 02-05-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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02-05-2013, 02:56 PM
  #381
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Bergeron also got concussed for second time in the playoff series vs the Flyers when

Boston blew the 3-0 series lead. Krecji got concussed that very same series as well. Horton got concussed against the Canucks. Subban almost killed Marchand with a clean hit as well, Marchand is lucky Subban used his back instead of his shoulder or we could have seen the same thing.
Didn't Begin crosscheck someone in the back against the bruins as well? Was that Savard?

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02-05-2013, 02:58 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Has nothing to do with getting cheapshotted. A team that wins it all has to respect itself first and foremost. If we walk with the head between our legs and keep trying to convince ourselves that "it's not our game", we'll never get that self-respect, and the other teams will keep not respecting us.

As for the cheapshots... Really? Besides Savard and Bergeron (respectively 3 and almost 6 years ago), can you name other examples? A heavy weight won't deter a nutcase from cheapshotting anyone, but it sure as hell will make him think twice before abusing our players after the whistle, and intimidating our young guys both verbally and physically.



Clowe is what I'd consider an heavyweight. This guy is a beast. Would completely nullify the Lucic factor on the Bruins.
Our team system right now is based on speed. Clowe really doesn't have the footspeed to fit into our top -6.

We have plenty of tough players, I really don't see the need for a heavyweight. Guys like Moen, Prust and Emelin do a good job of keeping the other team honest. Our team is built to make teams pay on the PP, not through physical retribution.

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02-05-2013, 03:00 PM
  #383
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The dirtiest Bruin happens not to be the biggest.

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02-05-2013, 03:01 PM
  #384
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Didn't Begin crosscheck someone in the back against the bruins as well? Was that Savard?
Yeah it was actually.

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02-05-2013, 03:07 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Our team system right now is based on speed. Clowe really doesn't have the footspeed to fit into our top -6.

We have plenty of tough players, I really don't see the need for a heavyweight. Guys like Moen, Prust and Emelin do a good job of keeping the other team honest. Our team is built to make teams pay on the PP, not through physical retribution.
No it's not. It's based on two men forecheck and smart positioning/pressure. We're not beating teams with our speed, but with our relentless forecheck and by making it difficult for them to get out of their zone. We're also scoring lots of goals because we provoke mistakes with our pressure.

Clowe is far from being the fastest player out there, but a guy with his abilities with or without the puck, with or without his gloves, can always find a spot in one team's lineup. As for building a team that makes the opponents pay on the PP, our 5 on 5 stats seem to disagree with that premise, and Habs fans should have a good idea of how it doesn't work in the long run.

As for needing quick players on their feet... Our team is, once again, built on the forecheck. Gionta might be quick as hell, he's the most pathetic forechecker of the team. Being a great forechecker and a great skater isn't the same. One doesn't come with the other.

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02-05-2013, 03:10 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Bergeron also got concussed for second time in the playoff series vs the Flyers when Boston blew the 3-0 series lead. Krecji got concussed that very same series as well. Horton got concussed against the Canucks. Subban almost killed Marchand with a clean hit as well; Marchand is lucky Subban used his back instead of his shoulder or we could have seen the same thing.
Marchand got a clean hit from Subban. It was an heavy, legal hit. Though, he's paying the bill every game for it and for his acts, and has unfortunately been for a while.

Bergeron's concussion was the result of a fair hit. Never understood why exactly he got a concussion out of that play.

The only notable dirty play we can get out of this is Horton, who was a victim of some dirty hit. That being said, I didn't notice any Canuck out there trying to do the same after this.

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02-05-2013, 03:32 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Marchand got a clean hit from Subban. It was an heavy, legal hit. Though, he's paying the bill every game for it and for his acts, and has unfortunately been for a while.

Bergeron's concussion was the result of a fair hit. Never understood why exactly he got a concussion out of that play.

The only notable dirty play we can get out of this is Horton, who was a victim of some dirty hit. That being said, I didn't notice any Canuck out there trying to do the same after this.
Regardless of whether it was dirty or clean, the Bruins toughness and intimidation game did not prevent any of these players from wanting to dish out hard hits.

I think it's good to have "tough" guys, when the game it's a little chippy and some players have to let out steam, but I don't believe in the deterrent theory, i.e., that having tough players prevent injuries. I think that having tough players makes some players on the team feel like they can play their game a little more comfortably, but I just don't believe in the idea that it prevents concussions, big hits and injuries.

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02-05-2013, 04:01 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Regardless of whether it was dirty or clean, the Bruins toughness and intimidation game did not prevent any of these players from wanting to dish out hard hits.

I think it's good to have "tough" guys, when the game it's a little chippy and some players have to let out steam, but I don't believe in the deterrent theory, i.e., that having tough players prevent injuries. I think that having tough players makes some players on the team feel like they can play their game a little more comfortably, but I just don't believe in the idea that it prevents concussions, big hits and injuries.
For sure, no team is going to avoid cheapshots or concussions. Hockey is a physical sport and there's always a nutcase or two that will go out of their way to hurt a player. And I'm not all for having an heavyweight at all cost. Like I said, it has to be the right fit, and it has to be a player who actually can play the game. Shawn Thornton comes to mind immediately when I try to think of one good example.

That being said, I'm not against having a Boll, a Clowe or a Doug Murray, who actually can contribute to the game AND make our other players' job easier. Guys like Plekanec end up slowing down as the season goes by, every year, in huge part because they have to deal with those little things the other teams make them suffer between the whistles and at the end of plays. As a whole, we have to stop accepting this. Especially since the referees are now as confusing as ever in regards to their level of tolerance this year. Without enforcing and intimidating anyone, we need those guys who actually are used to taking abuse, answering back, and act as a lightning rod for guys like Plekanec so they can be able to do their job without being bothered.

This, and I think a guy like Doug Murray would actually be quite awesome to clear up the front of the net if we look for a Bouillon replacement next season. We're still missing a big body presence back there that will jump on those rebounds with authority and prevent Price from getting slashed after the whistles.

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02-05-2013, 04:13 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
For sure, no team is going to avoid cheapshots or concussions. Hockey is a physical sport and there's always a nutcase or two that will go out of their way to hurt a player. And I'm not all for having an heavyweight at all cost. Like I said, it has to be the right fit, and it has to be a player who actually can play the game. Shawn Thornton comes to mind immediately when I try to think of one good example.

That being said, I'm not against having a Boll, a Clowe or a Doug Murray, who actually can contribute to the game AND make our other players' job easier. Guys like Plekanec end up slowing down as the season goes by, every year, in huge part because they have to deal with those little things the other teams make them suffer between the whistles and at the end of plays. As a whole, we have to stop accepting this. Especially since the referees are now as confusing as ever in regards to their level of tolerance this year. Without enforcing and intimidating anyone, we need those guys who actually are used to taking abuse, answering back, and act as a lightning rod for guys like Plekanec so they can be able to do their job without being bothered.

This, and I think a guy like Doug Murray would actually be quite awesome to clear up the front of the net if we look for a Bouillon replacement next season. We're still missing a big body presence back there that will jump on those rebounds with authority and prevent Price from getting slashed after the whistles.
Picking up Clowe and Douglas Murray would change us into the topper tier. Imagine having Subban, Markov, Diaz, Beaulieu as offensive D and Emelin, Murray, Tinordi, Gorges as Defensive D.

Emelin, Tinordi, Murray would be the most punishing set of D in the league and Subban is not a slouch in the hitting department either.

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02-05-2013, 04:18 PM
  #390
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Just saw the clip of Scott vs. Thornton from the other night. WE NEED THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM. EVEN CHARA WAS AFRAID OF HIM AFTER THAT POUNDING! We NEED John Scott in a HABS jersey. Anyone who doesn't agree hasn't seen that clip yet.

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02-05-2013, 04:21 PM
  #391
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Just saw the clip of Scott vs. Thornton from the other night. WE NEED THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM. EVEN CHARA WAS AFRAID OF HIM AFTER THAT POUNDING! We NEED John Scott in a HABS jersey. Anyone who doesn't agree hasn't seen that clip yet.
Everyone has seen that clip. Calm down before you pee yourself.

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02-05-2013, 04:28 PM
  #392
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Everyone has seen that clip. Calm down before you pee yourself.
Sorry lol haven't seen a beat down like that for a while now got all excited haha but we need a monster like that. It would be nice to have a chara hunter in the lineup

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02-05-2013, 04:33 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Picking up Clowe and Douglas Murray would change us into the topper tier. Imagine having Subban, Markov, Diaz, Beaulieu as offensive D and Emelin, Murray, Tinordi, Gorges as Defensive D.

Emelin, Tinordi, Murray would be the most punishing set of D in the league and Subban is not a slouch in the hitting department either.
Any of those two would have his use in our lineup. I particularly like Murray though. Great friend with Moen and a big body presence that is quite sympathetic. Plus, Montreal just seems to love those big teddy bears who have a borderline psychopathic look in their face

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02-05-2013, 04:34 PM
  #394
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Any of those two would have his use in our lineup. I particularly like Murray though. Great friend with Moen and a big body presence that is quite sympathetic. Plus, Montreal just seems to love those big teddy bears who have a borderline psychopathic look in their face
I was a big fan of Murray, but I haven't seen him play in some time, so I don't know if he's lost a step or two since. I've thought for some time that it would be nice to have someone who could really clear the crease, which is why I was disappointed when we got Bouillon.

Don't see why SJ would let Clowe or Murray go, though.

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02-05-2013, 04:36 PM
  #395
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Didn't we draft a big mean defenceman last year? Thrower I think wasnt it? What's the scoop on him being nhl ready next year?

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02-05-2013, 04:37 PM
  #396
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Didn't we draft a big mean defenceman last year? Thrower I think wasnt it? What's the scoop on him being nhl ready next year?
He's 6 feet tall. Good fighter. Better place to discuss him is the CHL prospects thread.

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02-05-2013, 04:40 PM
  #397
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I was a big fan of Murray, but I haven't seen him play in some time, so I don't know if he's lost a step or two since. I've thought for some time that it would be nice to have someone who could really clear the crease, which is why I was disappointed when we got Bouillon.

Don't see why SJ would let Clowe or Murray go, though.
Well... They both are UFA after this season, and one would think SJ might try to shake up their core if they don't do well this year in the playoffs. That is still pure speculation though, at this point.

As for this summer, I was disappointed to get Bouillon on a hockey point of view, but I just couldn't help but being happy that the guy gets a last contract with the Habs. That being said, yeah. I had two "targets" in my mind entering this summer: Prust and Allen.

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02-05-2013, 04:42 PM
  #398
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Well... They both are UFA after this season, and one would think SJ might try to shake up their core if they don't do well this year in the playoffs. That is still pure speculation though, at this point.

As for this summer, I was disappointed to get Bouillon on a hockey point of view, but I just couldn't help but being happy that the guy gets a last contract with the Habs. That being said, yeah. I had two "targets" in my mind entering this summer: Prust and Allen.
Same here. From what I hear, though, Allen hasn't played very well so far.

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02-05-2013, 04:44 PM
  #399
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I was a big fan of Murray, but I haven't seen him play in some time, so I don't know if he's lost a step or two since. I've thought for some time that it would be nice to have someone who could really clear the crease, which is why I was disappointed when we got Bouillon.

Don't see why SJ would let Clowe or Murray go, though.
I can confirm that he has lost a step. In his good day's he was a top 4 dman, now he might be a 6th... He's slow...

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02-05-2013, 04:49 PM
  #400
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Same here. From what I hear, though, Allen hasn't played very well so far.
Really? Haven't seen much of him so I can't talk, but it's surprising. Anaheim really has an odd looking group of defensemen as a whole though.

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I can confirm that he has lost a step. In his good day's he was a top 4 dman, now he might be a 6th... He's slow...
If I were to sign him, it would be for 3rd pairing, stay-at-home duties, with around 17 minutes of ice time per night. Still, his presence would be good on the PK. And he's actually not too bad with the puck in his own zone.

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