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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
  #726
JuniorNelson
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Canucks are playing well enough to make the playoffs with the tandem in net. Would this continue with one guy? Would a single starter be advantageous in the playoffs?

Gillis must watch the team carefully, shortened seasons that benefit elderly teams only come along once in a while. Gillis' gamble, keeping two goalies is less daring than trading one. Will the return players fit? Will they learn the system in time to be useful? Will they suck? These questions need not be faced.

Imagine the Canucks win the Cup. I suggest this would be the end of the Sedins. Gillis will have to build a new offense, pretty much top to bottom. A spare goalie will be damn handy at that point, no? Especially one with a very portable contract and some upside, no?

Imagine the Canucks tank. It will be apparent in time for a goalie to be dealt for an outrageous overpayment, as is customary at the deadline.

Suppose Gillis accepts a deal, now. Two games into the post Luongo era, Schnieder cracks his butt and is gone for the season, what then?

Gillis has never chosen the high risk play before, why do it now? Liut gabbing isn't enough to force a rash move, I don't think.

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02-05-2013, 02:42 PM
  #727
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Why would we tank if we won the cup?

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02-05-2013, 02:46 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Zoombie View Post
I agree with this, you've put it in better words than I could. Imagine it as the Canucks GM is trying to sell his Ferrari in a small town, where most houses already have a vehicle and don't want to trade their house for a car. Sure, the car is worth a lot, but it may not fetch much if there are no willing/able buyers.

It is more logical for MG to move 1 goalie for the best offer available, instead of sit on 2 high-calibre goalies and risk running out of skater-depth down the stretch and in the playoffs, despite what VanWest will tell you about how great it is to have 2 star goalies for 1 goalie position.
I'm sorry, not going to sell my Ferrari for an expired McDonalds' coupon, would rather just hold into it until someone can afford the purchase

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02-05-2013, 02:49 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why would we tank if we won the cup?

Rebuild silly.

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02-05-2013, 02:55 PM
  #730
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The potential damage is something Gillis would have already accounted for. Yes, it may still go awry with Cory. There is always that possibility. However, what should that matter to the fans of other teams? Does a potential controversy serve them in anyway?


The thought process here is that Gillis will buckle to putrid offers due to internal pressures... Think about it. This is Mike Gillis we are talking about here. Go toe to toe with Eagelson Mike Gillis... Carry both #1s into the season Gillis... Sit on a disgruntled Hodgson for 2 1/2 years Mike Gillis. Patience and pragmatism are his calling cards. Do you actually think he views this as a bad situation? Having two starters chomping at the bit to get in the net? This is bad?


Cory just needs to go out and make it a debate once again. Like he did last year, when he stole the net for 6 games in a row and everyone wondered when Luongo would get back in. Short memories around here.

See not to sound like an ass here, but why can't a none Canucks fan just care about for the sake of talking hockey? Why does it have to matter who one cheerrs for? Some of us do just enjoy talking about the greatest game on earth.

I realize that in Vancity that sun rises and sets around Gillis, but do any of us know what he is thinking? It is as easy for me to say he is like a duck on the water as it is for you to say the opposite. I mean we all say Burke regrets the Kessel trade and if he knew how it was going to work out he would never of made it, he says that is not true. So, is he a liar or did he value said player that highly?

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02-05-2013, 02:57 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I'm sorry, not going to sell my Ferrari for an expired McDonalds' coupon, would rather just hold into it until someone can afford the purchase
Ok, so how long exactly does that mean you hang onto it (the Ferrari)? If there is no trade this offseason to his liking do you think Gillis should keep Loungo?

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02-05-2013, 02:59 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
Ok, so how long exactly does that mean you hang onto it (the Ferrari)? If there is no trade this offseason to his liking do you think Gillis should keep Loungo?
Luongo's worth to Vancouver in a tandom situation is greater to us (even if it's strictly this year) than most proposals for him. I would much rather keep him this year and give him away for nothing at the end of the season than take some of the insulting offers proposed in this thread.

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02-05-2013, 03:02 PM
  #733
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Luongo's worth to Vancouver in a tandom situation is greater to us (even if it's strictly this year) than most proposals for him. I would much rather keep him this year and give him away for nothing at the end of the season than take some of the insulting offers proposed in this thread.
Exactly! I can't see why this is so hard to understand. Vancouver does what is best for the team.
The frustrating part of this thread is listening to posters say that no one is prepared to pay anything for Luongo and then in the same breath say that Vancouver has to move him now or the value will go down. There's a logic gap there and it seems pretty obvious.

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02-05-2013, 03:05 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Rebuild silly.
Well, we could tank for the 2015 draft...not until then.

Before the 2014-15 season, both Sedins will be UFAs (and Hansen) and Connor McDavid will be coming up for draft.

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02-05-2013, 03:06 PM
  #735
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Exactly! I can't see why this is so hard to understand. Vancouver does what is best for the team.
The frustrating part of this thread is listening to posters say that no one is prepared to pay anything for Luongo and then in the same breath say that Vancouver has to move him now or the value will go down. There's a logic gap there and it seems pretty obvious.
I just don't understand the "you have to move him now, because his value will only get lower" argument. If all that is offered is complete crap, then I don't care if they get a little crappier. Luongo's value is largely dependent on the market, and as of right now, most teams seem content with their goalies, that could easily change and just because no GM freaked out after 8 game doesn't mean that they are confident in their tender

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02-05-2013, 03:07 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Well, we could tank for the 2015 draft...not until then.

Before the 2014-15 season, both Sedins will be UFAs (and Hansen) and Connor McDavid will be coming up for draft.
At age 34 for the sedins (when they would hit training camp) Gillis is going to be in a VERY uncomfortable position if they still want to play. I would sign them to a 5 mil one year deal. No more.

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02-05-2013, 03:08 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Luongo's worth to Vancouver in a tandom situation is greater to us (even if it's strictly this year) than most proposals for him. I would much rather keep him this year and give him away for nothing at the end of the season than take some of the insulting offers proposed in this thread.
I have agreed with that, but I am asking about after this season. Do you keep him if you are Gillis?

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02-05-2013, 03:12 PM
  #738
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Exactly! I can't see why this is so hard to understand. Vancouver does what is best for the team.
The frustrating part of this thread is listening to posters say that no one is prepared to pay anything for Luongo and then in the same breath say that Vancouver has to move him now or the value will go down. There's a logic gap there and it seems pretty obvious.

See and at no point have I said he is worthless, i do feel his contract affects his trade value more then Canucks fans feel it does. I have also said in this thread or one of the 86 others that they should keep him and run hard this year.
I simply am stating that if the cap goes down then it is harder to keep him and that affects his value, you may disagree. So to that i have simply asked if you are Gillis or as a Canucks fan, how long do you keep him? If there is no trade to Gillis' liking this offseason what do you do? I think it is a fair discussion question and in noway belittling to Loungo.

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02-05-2013, 03:13 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorman View Post
See not to sound like an ass here, but why can't a none Canucks fan just care about for the sake of talking hockey? Why does it have to matter who one cheerrs for? Some of us do just enjoy talking about the greatest game on earth.


Because that hasn't been the status quo of the thread. Usually it ties to somehow undermining the potential trade position of the Canucks. That's why this is being brought up. Go back in this thread and look at the first post about the Liut discussion.



This is a Luongo thread. People are talking about this situation as it pertains to Luongo. So far, non Canuck fans have taken the negative slant, and most Canucks fans have taken the stance that this means nothing. You yourself have highlighted the potential negatives to the situation. If this is about the altruism of talking hockey, why does your response fit into the expected non-Canuck fan norm?




Quote:
I realize that in Vancity that sun rises and sets around Gillis, but do any of us know what he is thinking? It is as easy for me to say he is like a duck on the water as it is for you to say the opposite. I mean we all say Burke regrets the Kessel trade and if he knew how it was going to work out he would never of made it, he says that is not true. So, is he a liar or did he value said player that highly?


I don't have to know what he's thinking, I know what he's done. That's why I listed past incidents that highlight his patience. On the flipside, Burke has admitted to being impatient. The clear example is the Kessel deal. So his personality can be seen all over that transaction.



Gillis is not wholly predictable. Case in point the Hodgson deal. But even in that surprise deal, you could see his patience. From the time the incident occurred with his back injury, to the time he was eventually traded, something like 2.5 years had passed. Which meant that he sat on a disgruntled player for that length of time, with his agent and father breathing down his neck throughout. That is extreme patience.



Gillis makes mistakes. See, the Ballard transaction. Or the Bernier deal. But these mistakes are not borne of impatience. I'd say more due to poor pro scouting. It's still on Gillis in the end though. So no, the sun doesn't rise and set with Gillis (cute by the way), he's just proven to be methodical to most fans here. Hope that clears things up.

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02-05-2013, 03:13 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorman View Post
See not to sound like an ass here, but why can't a none Canucks fan just care about for the sake of talking hockey? Why does it have to matter who one cheerrs for? Some of us do just enjoy talking about the greatest game on earth.

I realize that in Vancity that sun rises and sets around Gillis, but do any of us know what he is thinking? It is as easy for me to say he is like a duck on the water as it is for you to say the opposite. I mean we all say Burke regrets the Kessel trade and if he knew how it was going to work out he would never of made it, he says that is not true. So, is he a liar or did he value said player that highly?
This is why. Leafs fans want to come in here and talk about Leafs related topics. The Kessel trade has nothing to do with Luongo.

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02-05-2013, 03:15 PM
  #741
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I'm sorry, not going to sell my Ferrari for an expired McDonalds' coupon, would rather just hold into it until someone can afford the purchase
Well, you will have to accept that one day you will be that guy rocking the Magnum P.I. model. People just aren't as crazy about Magnum P.I. as they use to be.

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02-05-2013, 03:16 PM
  #742
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See and at no point have I said he is worthless, i do feel his contract affects his trade value more then Canucks fans feel it does. I have also said in this thread or one of the 86 others that they should keep him and run hard this year.
I simply am stating that if the cap goes down then it is harder to keep him and that affects his value, you may disagree. So to that i have simply asked if you are Gillis or as a Canucks fan, how long do you keep him? If there is no trade to Gillis' liking this offseason what do you do? I think it is a fair discussion question and in noway belittling to Loungo.
I agree that his contract affects his trade value. I think that the decision has already been made that ideally he gets traded this year and if not, then in the summer. The decision has been made to run with Schneider as the number one. I suppose that could change if Luongo went on a deep run in the playoffs and Schneider stumbled all year but I give it a pretty low probability of happening.

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02-05-2013, 03:19 PM
  #743
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See and at no point have I said he is worthless, i do feel his contract affects his trade value more then Canucks fans feel it does. I have also said in this thread or one of the 86 others that they should keep him and run hard this year.
I simply am stating that if the cap goes down then it is harder to keep him and that affects his value, you may disagree. So to that i have simply asked if you are Gillis or as a Canucks fan, how long do you keep him? If there is no trade to Gillis' liking this offseason what do you do? I think it is a fair discussion question and in noway belittling to Loungo.

Gillis will have to take the best of the trades _not_ to his liking in the offseason. At that point, getting under the 64.3 cap becomes a factor. So he will have to move him then. That is the end point to all of this.


One other factor is the _type_ of return. So far, Gillis seems insistent on a "now" contributor, along with futures. In the offseason, the pressure to get a current asset isn't there, so he could be far more willing to accept just futures. Something to think about.

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02-05-2013, 03:20 PM
  #744
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I have agreed with that, but I am asking about after this season. Do you keep him if you are Gillis?
you have to reevaluate your situation after this year

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02-05-2013, 03:27 PM
  #745
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This is why. Leafs fans want to come in here and talk about Leafs related topics. The Kessel trade has nothing to do with Luongo.
See and I was only bringing that up in terms of a reference to knowing what one was actually thinking, take it as turning it into a leaf thread if you will. I was simply stating a reference as a poster had said that Gillis doesn't view two number ones as a bad situation. I was simplying using it as a tool to say sometimes a GM says onething but others think he may not mean it.

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02-05-2013, 03:32 PM
  #746
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At age 34 for the sedins (when they would hit training camp) Gillis is going to be in a VERY uncomfortable position if they still want to play. I would sign them to a 5 mil one year deal. No more.
Sedins are actually the type of players who can be very good late in their career. Players that end up playing poorly late in careers are guys who rely heavily on speed. Puck possession players quite well. Look at other sports like soccer and basketball. The shelf life of players is a lot shorter. The reason for this is conditioning and speed are the first things to go. This is similar to hockey.

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02-05-2013, 03:34 PM
  #747
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Will Gudbranson be playing tonight? Because Gillis said he was waiting on a player(Gudbranson was injured until now). Gillis will be watching the Winnipeg-Florida game, which might be Gudbranson's first game back. I'm not saying Gudbranson will be involved, but he was definitely a player Gillis was targeting when shopping Hodgson, so value aside, it seems to me like there's at least a chance that Gudbranson might be involved.

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02-05-2013, 03:35 PM
  #748
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Sedins are actually the type of players who can be very good late in their career. Players that end up playing poorly late in careers are guys who rely heavily on speed. Puck possession players quite well. Look at other sports like soccer and basketball. The shelf life of players is a lot shorter. The reason for this is conditioning and speed are the first things to go. This is similar to hockey.
I think that even if they fade it will not be drastic from one year to the next. That they know each others games so very well will haelp them stay effective as well. Plus if you offer them a 1yr deal, lol, you may as well say hey, it was real nice knowing ya, door meet ass.

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02-05-2013, 03:36 PM
  #749
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Sedins are actually the type of players who can be very good late in their career. Players that end up playing poorly late in careers are guys who rely heavily on speed. Puck possession players quite well. Look at other sports like soccer and basketball. The shelf life of players is a lot shorter. The reason for this is conditioning and speed are the first things to go. This is similar to hockey.
I don't have a link so don't ask for it, but the Sedins have said that they want to return to Sweden for the tail end of their careers, and they want to go back when they are still "good". This came out years ago, and its possible that things have changed since, but I have always viewed the max age we get them to be about 36/37.

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02-05-2013, 03:38 PM
  #750
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Two years ago when there were discussions as to how much Cory Schnieder would bring the Canucks in trade there were weeks of posts on HF as to how much any goalie would get and how much less Cory would bring back because he was not a proven NHL starting goalie. HF fans pretty much came to the consensus that the most a proven NHL starting goalie would bring in trade would be a second round pick and a mid range prospect. Cory, being unproven would only likely return a 3rd round pick to the Canucks.

Do you really think Luongo will not return a 2nd round pick so that we Vancouver fans will really be upset & surprized with how much less we will get for Luongo? After all he is a proven NHL starting goalie. I guses some will say he hasn't played enough games this season to prove he isn't already over the hill and on the rapid decline plus point out how terrible his contract is.

If you don't think Luongo is still worth a 2nd round pick, what do you think we will have to settle for?
I don't think I have ever mentioned what they should settle for. All I said was the return might be a little less than what people are expecting. You have to agree with me with all things being equal right now in terms of contract length and age of player teams would be bidding up the price for him. What would it be if he was in year 2 of a five year deal? Maybe more valuable?

What would I think he is worth? For me, because of the contract I would say a solid top 6 player and a good prospect. Younger top six forward then a lesser prospect. Wait till the summer and it might not be all that good.

Let me end off by saying I am a Luongo fan. I like the guy, I want to see him succeed and get a cup.

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