HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Notices

The Official 2013 Draft Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-04-2013, 08:10 PM
  #301
18Hossa
Registered User
 
18Hossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,885
vCash: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by playasRus View Post
Don't think any team would pick Jones ahead of Mackinnon.
Oilers will.

18Hossa is offline  
Old
02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #302
FolignoQuantumLeap
A mad Mup
 
FolignoQuantumLeap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: A Blue Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hossa View Post
Oilers will.
That's a scary thought. Hopefully, they don't suck that hard.

FolignoQuantumLeap is offline  
Old
02-04-2013, 08:33 PM
  #303
Berserker*
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,560
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Amazing how much this teams offence revolves around Spezza. Without him long term, a potential downward projectory could be in the cards. We might be a top 10 pick when all is said and done.
We could really use a prospect in the system with number 1 center potential. If we end up with the top pick, we have to go with Mackinnon.

Berserker* is offline  
Old
02-04-2013, 08:34 PM
  #304
Berserker*
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,560
vCash: 500
If we continue to struggle, hopefully we can trade Gonchar for a late 1st. It would be awesome to get Kerby Rychel, Or Cutris Lazar or Ryan Hartman with a second first round pick.

Berserker* is offline  
Old
02-04-2013, 10:14 PM
  #305
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 21,315
vCash: 50
Aim high boyz, we gun get ma boy Jones.

ReginKarlssonLehner is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 06:38 AM
  #306
JackBauer
Registered User
 
JackBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ont.
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 500
i've always been a proponent of BPA, but it's a little surprising how many people want a D-man.

look at how our defense played without Cowen and Gonchar. look at how our offense has played without Spezza. what do you think we really need?

JackBauer is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 07:08 AM
  #307
wilfred
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Bunswick
Posts: 1,296
vCash: 500
I would take Jones if given the choice. Karlsson and Jones on the right side for the next 15 years wow ....... Method and Cowen on the left. I would have to say that might be the best young D in the league and Jones seems like he would fit the Sens system to a tee.

wilfred is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 07:45 AM
  #308
JonnyMacSen
Divide and Conacher
 
JonnyMacSen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
i've always been a proponent of BPA, but it's a little surprising how many people want a D-man.

look at how our defense played without Cowen and Gonchar. look at how our offense has played without Spezza. what do you think we really need?
I think were ok on the offensive side, but we could use another top shut down guy like Cowen, preferably who plays on the right side, unfortunately no one in this draft really fits that description as far as I know, although Jones will do

Nurse or Zadarov both play the left side but I would definetely consider taking them with our 1st depending on who's available. BPA is still the way to go for sure though.

JonnyMacSen is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 07:50 AM
  #309
OgieO
Registered User
 
OgieO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
i've always been a proponent of BPA, but it's a little surprising how many people want a D-man.

look at how our defense played without Cowen and Gonchar. look at how our offense has played without Spezza. what do you think we really need?
Well, we do have Silf, Zib, Prince, Stone, etc coming along. I kinda agree with you though - we have the hardest pieces to find along the blueline and another top prospect in the system. A foundation of Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci is pretty damned good, and Wiercioch, Boro, Gryba seem like they will be more than adequate as bottom pair guys. Our D looks pretty good long term. We're about one or two minor pieces away and can always add there through FA as needed.

I think we set ourselves up where we can just sit back and take BPA and be done with it.

OgieO is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #310
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,144
vCash: 500
Personally, I think our system is deeper at forward than on D. Probably could be deeper at center, but we have a ton of forwards.

At the NHL level, we probably have a few more key pieces already in place on the blueline (notably Karlsson and Cowen will eat a lot of minutes, and Wiercioch and Boro are showing good promise) and at center.

But for our 1st rounder, BPA available either way. Tough to look ahead 3-4 years and really know what the team will look like. Things change fast, especially with Murray making deals.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 11:26 AM
  #311
JackBauer
Registered User
 
JackBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ont.
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Personally, I think our system is deeper at forward than on D. Probably could be deeper at center, but we have a ton of forwards.

At the NHL level, we probably have a few more key pieces already in place on the blueline (notably Karlsson and Cowen will eat a lot of minutes, and Wiercioch and Boro are showing good promise) and at center.

But for our 1st rounder, BPA available either way. Tough to look ahead 3-4 years and really know what the team will look like. Things change fast, especially with Murray making deals.
People seem to think we are deeper at forward but they aren't taken into consideration where those forwards will play. Yes, we have Silf, Zbad, Stone, Prince, Noesen, etc. Let's assume everyone hits their potential. None of those guys are top line forwards. If he tops out on his potential, Zbad is a borderline #1 centre. Meanwhile, if they all reach their potential, with Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci, Weircoch, our top 4 is set. We need top-line offence. BPA still, but that's our need, not D-men.

JackBauer is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #312
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
People seem to think we are deeper at forward but they aren't taken into consideration where those forwards will play. Yes, we have Silf, Zbad, Stone, Prince, Noesen, etc. Let's assume everyone hits their potential. None of those guys are top line forwards. If he tops out on his potential, Zbad is a borderline #1 centre. Meanwhile, if they all reach their potential, with Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci, Weircoch, our top 4 is set. We need top-line offence. BPA still, but that's our need, not D-men.
I believe Stone and Silfverberg both have 1st line upside. With Stone, you're talking about a guy who was the leading goal scorer at the WJC amongst the best of his peers a year ago. His skating could hold him back, but he has PPG potential in the NHL. But significant risk too. I think Silvferberg's potential is also that of a first line winger who can score you 30 goals year in and year out. A little less risk than Stone, but perhaps a little less overall offensive upside too. And I would say both Stone and Silf have higher potential than ZBad actually, albeit with more risk. I don't ever see Mika as a #1 center, although he perhaps could be a winger on a 1st line. But he is as safe a 19 year old forward as they come in terms of being a pro for a long time.

On D, I don't see Wiercioch or Ceci as #1 d-men, although I can buy an argument for Ceci in that echelon at least. He has top pairing upside I suppose. And I'd agree that when you factor in Karlsson and Cowen our upside on D at the top end is higher, but when you already have a young Norris trophy winner in your top 4, that's usually going to be the case. Tons of questions around the rest of our D prospects.

Either way, I hope our scouts draft the BPA available in the 1st round (ideally the 2nd round too), regardless of how they see it stacked up. Tough to tell who will pan out and who won't.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 11:58 AM
  #313
Cujomi
Leeuw YNWA Ddraig
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Personally, I think our system is deeper at forward than on D. Probably could be deeper at center, but we have a ton of forwards.

At the NHL level, we probably have a few more key pieces already in place on the blueline (notably Karlsson and Cowen will eat a lot of minutes, and Wiercioch and Boro are showing good promise) and at center.

But for our 1st rounder, BPA available either way. Tough to look ahead 3-4 years and really know what the team will look like. Things change fast, especially with Murray making deals.
We're deeper at forward but we don't have any elite offensive prospects.

Honestly, unless one of our prospects undergoes a serious uptick in their development nobody is close to bringing the impact that Spezza has on our offence. I love Silfverberg as a prospect but he will never carry our offence the way that Spezza does unless he explodes.

We have a #1 D, we have a #1 goalie we NEED that offensive catalyst to replace Spezza in a few years as he starts to decline. I don't think people really realize what Spezza brings to this team until he's gone or starts to slow down with age.

Drouin, MacKinnon, Lindholm or Monahan would be ideal for us this year to take a chance at replacing him down the line.

Also Zibanejad is not a 1st line player let alone a #1 C.

Cujomi is online now  
Old
02-05-2013, 12:46 PM
  #314
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 500
Trade down from 2nd Overall (only if Jones is taken 1st), to 5th or 6th, acquiring another top 10 pick in process.

Draft Monohan @ 5
Draft Zadorov @ 10

Trade Bishop + Puempel for a mid-late 1st Rd pick

Draft Pulock @ 17


Our D core for the future (not including Methot):

Cowen-Karlsson
Zadorov-Ceci
Weircioch-Pulock

benjiv1 is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #315
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
We're deeper at forward but we don't have any elite offensive prospects.

Honestly, unless one of our prospects undergoes a serious uptick in their development nobody is close to bringing the impact that Spezza has on our offence. I love Silfverberg as a prospect but he will never carry our offence the way that Spezza does unless he explodes.

We have a #1 D, we have a #1 goalie we NEED that offensive catalyst to replace Spezza in a few years as he starts to decline. I don't think people really realize what Spezza brings to this team until he's gone or starts to slow down with age.

Drouin, MacKinnon, Lindholm or Monahan would be ideal for us this year to take a chance at replacing him down the line.

Also Zibanejad is not a 1st line player let alone a #1 C.

I don't disagree with what you have said, I just disagree with factoring any of this into whom you are going to pick. You have to be careful about factoring that stuff in, as our scouts did in 2011. By Murray and Dorion's own admission, they didn't really consider a d-man in 2011 because we had Karlsson, Cowen, Rundblad and Wiercioch and a major void at forward, so they ended up going with the best forward on their board (Zibanejad on the Sens board). They each have been rather candid in saying they probably should have considered a d-man without mentioning Hamilton specifically (although they were also careful to emphasize they were very happy with Mika as a pick still). They didn't even invite Hamilton in for an interview. But one could certainly argue Hamilton would have been of better value to us long-term - and it's only been 18 months.

Time will tell, but the point is you just don't know how your depth chart and prospect development will change to anticipate a real future need many years down the road. For all we know Spezza might play another 8 years in Ottawa, and along with Turris give us an indefinite 1-2 combo. Even if Spezza's gone in a few years, perhaps a Turris-Da Costa-Zibanejad-Pageau quartet might be one of the best in the league in 2017. Or 3 of those guys might not even be NHL centermen and Turris might have regressed or become injury prone.

Regardess, unless you are a lottery team, you have no way of drafting a franchise center either - or at least counting on it. Even Monahan is a reach as a prospective franchise center and scouts aren't really seeing him that way - he is probably not even rated as high a guy like Couturier was in his draft year and most people don't believe he is a franchise center (I personally think he does have #1 center potential)

Take the BPA in the 1st round. Period.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 01:07 PM
  #316
The Fuhr
Registered User
 
The Fuhr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,508
vCash: 500
2013 NHL draft lacks depth of talent
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2013-nh...0848--nhl.html

Quote:
In discussion with dozens of scouts the past few weeks as we prepare for our annual Future Watch issue, The Hockey News has learned the much-ballyhooed draft of 2013 is more sizzle than substance. Its nothing special, after all.

The 2013 draft is not as strong or as deep as we first thought, said one scout, echoing the thoughts of many others. Its a deep top 10 and an OK first round, but I dont see a lot of depth. Is it deeper than 2012? Im not so sure.
Quote:
The 2013 draft wont come close to 2003, another scout said. Lets make that clear right now. Take away the first eight or 10 picks and youre looking at guys who can contribute on the third and fourth lines, not the first line.

The Fuhr is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 01:51 PM
  #317
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
2013 NHL draft lacks depth of talent
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2013-nh...0848--nhl.html
I completely agree with this.

Outside of:

1. Jones 2. MacKinnon 3. Drouin 4. Barkov 5. Monohan 6. Lindholm 7. Shinkaruk 8. Nichushkin 9. Ristolainen 10. Zadorov 11. Nurse 12. Pulock 13. Erne 14. Morrissey 15. Lazar and MAYBE 16. Fucale / 17. Domi

I'm not that excited about the draft class.

With that being said, I think there could be some gems (maybe Hartman?).

benjiv1 is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #318
Marvelous Manked
Part Time Drag Queen
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,253
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
Trade down from 2nd Overall (only if Jones is taken 1st), to 5th or 6th, acquiring another top 10 pick in process.

Draft Monohan @ 5
Draft Zadorov @ 10

Trade Bishop + Puempel for a mid-late 1st Rd pick

Draft Pulock @ 17


Our D core for the future (not including Methot):

Cowen-Karlsson
Zadorov-Ceci
Weircioch-Pulock
What team has two picks that will both be in the top 10?

Also, I don't think passing on Mackinnon/Drouin is beneficial.

Marvelous Manked is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 02:25 PM
  #319
Cujomi
Leeuw YNWA Ddraig
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
I don't disagree with what you have said, I just disagree with factoring any of this into whom you are going to pick. You have to be careful about factoring that stuff in, as our scouts did in 2011. By Murray and Dorion's own admission, they didn't really consider a d-man in 2011 because we had Karlsson, Cowen, Rundblad and Wiercioch and a major void at forward, so they ended up going with the best forward on their board (Zibanejad on the Sens board). They each have been rather candid in saying they probably should have considered a d-man without mentioning Hamilton specifically (although they were also careful to emphasize they were very happy with Mika as a pick still). They didn't even invite Hamilton in for an interview. But one could certainly argue Hamilton would have been of better value to us long-term - and it's only been 18 months.

Time will tell, but the point is you just don't know how your depth chart and prospect development will change to anticipate a real future need many years down the road. For all we know Spezza might play another 8 years in Ottawa, and along with Turris give us an indefinite 1-2 combo. Even if Spezza's gone in a few years, perhaps a Turris-Da Costa-Zibanejad-Pageau quartet might be one of the best in the league in 2017. Or 3 of those guys might not even be NHL centermen and Turris might have regressed or become injury prone.

Regardess, unless you are a lottery team, you have no way of drafting a franchise center either - or at least counting on it. Even Monahan is a reach as a prospective franchise center and scouts aren't really seeing him that way - he is probably not even rated as high a guy like Couturier was in his draft year and most people don't believe he is a franchise center (I personally think he does have #1 center potential)

Take the BPA in the 1st round. Period.
Moving up to draft Drouin or MacKinnon would be going after the BPA. I'm not advocating going for someone that isn't BPA...I'm advocating making the moves necessary to get a forward of that calibre (Lindholm/Drouin/Monahan most likely).

It was always a mistake to take Zibanejad where we did. No offence to him, as I think he'll be a nice player, but Dougie Hamilton was the clear best choice there (at least IMO) and even though we couldn't foresee Cowen getting hurt we still weren't exactly deep with age and contracts factored in.

But yeah...Zibanejad was an error in judgement. A good player but he wasn't BPA and he didn't fill the need that we really had (which was finding a real offensive catalyst).

It's just too bad Strome was taken right before our pick.

Cujomi is online now  
Old
02-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #320
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Moving up to draft Drouin or MacKinnon would be going after the BPA. I'm not advocating going for someone that isn't BPA...I'm advocating making the moves necessary to get a forward of that calibre (Lindholm/Drouin/Monahan most likely)..
Moving up to grab a franchise player is very difficult. Even if we had the 10th overall pick, to move up to top 3 to land a player like Drouin would likely cost Turris, Lehner and the 10th overall or something along those lines. The price is always crazy, which is why you almost never see a team get to move up. Even Ottawa moving up from 6 to top 3 was overly expensive in 2011, which Murray had looked at doing, but passed when the price was set.

Even moving to from 10th to 5th to grab a Monahan or Lindholm would be pricey. Probably cost you one of Lehner, Silfverberg or Zibanejad along with our 1st. At the very least, a guy like Stone. Especially in this draft, where there is a decent drop off after #6 (at least at this juncture).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
It was always a mistake to take Zibanejad where we did. No offence to him, as I think he'll be a nice player, but Dougie Hamilton was the clear best choice there (at least IMO) and even though we couldn't foresee Cowen getting hurt we still weren't exactly deep with age and contracts factored in.

But yeah...Zibanejad was an error in judgement. A good player but he wasn't BPA and he didn't fill the need that we really had (which was finding a real offensive catalyst).

It's just too bad Strome was taken right before our pick.
I thought it was a mistake at the time too, but only time will tell. Zibanejad might just end up better than Couturier and Hamilton, or at least their equal when all is said and done. I didn't really care about picking Mika from a need perspective, I just felt Couturier was clearly the BPA. I liked him better than everyone in the top 6, other than RNH and Landeskog. Hamilton was also ahead of Zibanejad from where I stood too. And a lot of questions about Strome still as well.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:21 PM
  #321
JackBauer
Registered User
 
JackBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ont.
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
Trade down from 2nd Overall (only if Jones is taken 1st), to 5th or 6th, acquiring another top 10 pick in process.

Draft Monohan @ 5
Draft Zadorov @ 10

Trade Bishop + Puempel for a mid-late 1st Rd pick

Draft Pulock @ 17


Our D core for the future (not including Methot):

Cowen-Karlsson
Zadorov-Ceci
Weircioch-Pulock
So almost everyone on this board agrees that we have a lot of depth in 2nd-3rd line forwards and d-men and are very light on high-end forwards. in your scenario, we somehow land the 2nd overall pick and you want to trade it away to land what? another 2nd line forward and a couple extra d-men? i'm not even going to touch on the fact that to achieve this, you trade away the one forward in our system whose ceiling is a 1st line sniper. well done mate.

JackBauer is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 03:26 PM
  #322
DJB
Sens best prospect
 
DJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,766
vCash: 820
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
2013 NHL draft lacks depth of talent
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2013-nh...0848--nhl.html
Been saying this for a while, there are about 12 guys I like and then it drops significantly.

DJB is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 07:33 PM
  #323
benjiv1
Registered User
 
benjiv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
So almost everyone on this board agrees that we have a lot of depth in 2nd-3rd line forwards and d-men and are very light on high-end forwards. in your scenario, we somehow land the 2nd overall pick and you want to trade it away to land what? another 2nd line forward and a couple extra d-men? i'm not even going to touch on the fact that to achieve this, you trade away the one forward in our system whose ceiling is a 1st line sniper. well done mate.
IMO Monohan could be the best overall player in the draft (outside of Jones), which is why I would consider trading down to take him.

And why Puempel's ceiling may be a 1st Line Sniper, I would hardly say he is a sure bet. In fact, I would bet against him ever having an impact in the NHL.

I also think that Zadorov will be the #1 player teams will wish they had taken within the top 10.

benjiv1 is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 09:36 PM
  #324
Hale The Villain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,285
vCash: 50
Disagree that this draft is a weak one; lacks depth beyond the top 2 rounds? Maybe. But the top 2 rounds in this draft are the best since 08.

The fact that a team may get an elite defensive prospect like Pulock outside of the top 10, a huge goal scoring winger like Mantha outside of the top 15, and all-around talents like Rychel and Lazar at the end of the 1st round, is hard to believe.

Hale The Villain is offline  
Old
02-05-2013, 09:56 PM
  #325
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,941
vCash: 500
i have this nagging feeling we're gonna end up with Max Domi.

Completely serious.

BK201 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.