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Defence 101 (J.Staal goal vs Leafs)

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:12 PM
  #26
hatterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Grabovski's "great defense" is so overrated.
He doesn't play great defense. He *does* backcheck very well. In sustained zone pressure he's average at best.

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02-05-2013, 01:17 PM
  #27
hersky77
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People are making this alot worse then it should. The leafs had odds in the corner because they were going up against two canes players so percentages dictate that puck would be cleared. But in the end the canes scored so it made a decent defensive scheme look worse than it was.

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02-05-2013, 01:22 PM
  #28
Erik Estrada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
People are making this alot worse then it should. The leafs had odds in the corner because they were going up against two canes players so percentages dictate that puck would be cleared. But in the end the canes scored so it made a decent defensive scheme look worse than it was.
You plan to outnumber your opponent along the boards. That would mean 3 Leafs on 2 Canes. Not 4 on 2, in the corner, below the redline, with a 6'4 30 goal scorer in front of the crease chatting it up alone with your goalie.

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02-05-2013, 01:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
You plan to outnumber your opponent along the boards. That would mean 3 Leafs on 2 Canes. Not 4 on 2, in the corner, below the redline, with a 6'4 30 goal scorer in front of the crease chatting it up alone with your goalie.
ok so blame grabovski for not covering the front of the net then.

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02-05-2013, 01:46 PM
  #30
Bobby G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toronto murphy laws View Post
Depends on the system obviously but the majority would have Holzer staying in front of the next there covering the slot, with Grabo supporting the puck as he is.
IMO hockey is more situational than that. You can't have a strict system of who stands where. Grabo needed to realize that both D-man were engaged with a guy and had to find the center.

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02-05-2013, 01:46 PM
  #31
SerenityRick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
People are making this alot worse then it should. The leafs had odds in the corner because they were going up against two canes players so percentages dictate that puck would be cleared. But in the end the canes scored so it made a decent defensive scheme look worse than it was.
I'm sorry but it's idiotic to leave anyone that wide open in front of the net at any time. Whether the odds are in your favor that you recover the puck or not, that's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
I think the Leafs were a little thrown by the botched icing call, but it was still a complete joke to leave him standing alone in front of the net like that.

And not only did they leave him wide open, they lost a 4v2 puck battle.

At best that was a 50/50 icing call. If you're going to say it was botched then in real time and on replays it better be totally and completely obvious that Skinner was not there first. You could argue that usually the defense in that situation gets the benefit of the doubt but I would certainly not say it was botched in any way. The refs have botched a LOT of calls this season, I didn't think that non-call for icing was one of them.

also botched is a great word. botch botch.

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:20 PM
  #32
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
You plan to outnumber your opponent along the boards. That would mean 3 Leafs on 2 Canes. Not 4 on 2, in the corner, below the redline, with a 6'4 30 goal scorer in front of the crease chatting it up alone with your goalie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Gals 1 Cup View Post
IMO hockey is more situational than that. You can't have a strict system of who stands where. Grabo needed to realize that both D-man were engaged with a guy and had to find the center.
Exactly. Either Grabovski or Holzer should have been in front of the net. Clearly they got their signals crossed about which was supposed to provide puck support and which was supposed to cover the slot. It's no different than when two football players cover the same wide receiver, allowing a second receiver to get wide open.

The image looks a whole lot worse than the reality of what happened there.

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02-05-2013, 02:23 PM
  #33
WarriorofTime
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Exactly. Either Grabovski or Holzer should have been in front of the net. Clearly they got their signals crossed about which was supposed to provide puck support and which was supposed to cover the slot. It's no different than when two football players cover the same wide receiver, allowing a second receiver to get wide open.

The image looks a whole lot worse than the reality of what happened there.
That's considered a major defensive breakdown and leads to long touchdowns. That is as bad as it can get and a good equivalent. I don't know why you'd think it's an excusable error.

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
It does remind me of mites/squirts, where the kids all follow the puck around the ice like a swarm of little helmeted bees. It's kinda cute, but not at the NHL level.
Like the soccer game in Stuart Little 2

lirl


Last edited by Dustin Peener: 02-05-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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02-05-2013, 02:28 PM
  #35
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Mike Milbury absolutely blasted the leafs' defense during the intermission of the Dallas-Minnesota game last night. Said that it was "bone-headed" and that they suck. I found it hilarious

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02-05-2013, 02:30 PM
  #36
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
That's considered a major defensive breakdown and leads to long touchdowns. That is as bad as it can get and a good equivalent. I don't know why you'd think it's an excusable error.
He doesn't think it's excusable. What he said earlier in the thread is that it looks like 1 player out of position. It's still a breakdown and inexcusable leaving Staal all alone.

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02-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #37
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
That's considered a major defensive breakdown and leads to long touchdowns. That is as bad as it can get and a good equivalent. I don't know why you'd think it's an excusable error.
Obviously it's a defensive breakdown, but would you compare it to a bunch of pee wee football players chasing a rolling ball around the field? No, it's one guy making a bad read.

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02-05-2013, 02:42 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Obviously it's a defensive breakdown, but would you compare it to a bunch of pee wee football players chasing a rolling ball around the field? No, it's one guy making a bad read.
Ah, my bad on misinterpreting what you were saying.

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02-05-2013, 03:03 PM
  #39
tarheelhockey
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Ah, my bad on misinterpreting what you were saying.
No problem.

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Old
02-05-2013, 03:40 PM
  #40
Spazmatic Dan
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Huh.

So what you are saying is that despite all those years emphasizing goaltending and defense as being of paramount importance, the Leafs still suck? Go figure.

That about summarizes the franchise for the past 7-8 years. Spinning tires with the best of them.


Now I realize they have made improvements but they still have a ways to go IMO. Further than a lot of fans realize. People talking about the Leafs' defensive depth were looking at bodies a lot more than talent IMO.

Hopefully Gardiner/Rielly etc. and a defensive system (still in progress) can rectify that in the near future. I'm holding on to my hope as a Leafs fan.

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Old
02-05-2013, 03:51 PM
  #41
MrFunnyWobbl
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People in this thread are shocked?

What do you expect out of toronto?

Good Defense?

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02-05-2013, 03:56 PM
  #42
Leo Trollmarov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Wow 4 guys below the goal line
2.5 below the goal line




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02-05-2013, 03:58 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
ok so blame grabovski for not covering the front of the net then.
That was Holzers man, not Grabo.

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02-05-2013, 04:00 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
People are making this alot worse then it should. The leafs had odds in the corner because they were going up against two canes players so percentages dictate that puck would be cleared. But in the end the canes scored so it made a decent defensive scheme look worse than it was.
Um, no.

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02-05-2013, 04:05 PM
  #45
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This is a goal scored by the Stars yesterday on a delayed penalty 6 on 5 yesterday. Avs couldn't get the puck off them for at least 15 or 20 seconds before they scored. Pause at 0:08 or 0:09 and notice how every Avs forward is on the right side of the rink going after the puck carrier leaving two Stars on the opposite wing open as well as the guy in the middle who'd eventually score (Benn). Starts with some terrible PA Parenteau defence where he loses two players on the same play:


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02-05-2013, 04:07 PM
  #46
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Boston vs Toronto, Saturday, TV commentators, "look how Boston overloads the puck to get possession"

Carolina vs Toronto, Monday, TV commentators, "why is Toronto fighting for the puck with too many players?"

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02-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Trollmarov View Post
That was Holzers man, not Grabo.
Does Toronto play positional, or man to man coverage ?

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02-05-2013, 04:12 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
Boston vs Toronto, Saturday, TV commentators, "look how Boston overloads the puck to get possession"

Carolina vs Toronto, Monday, TV commentators, "why is Toronto fighting for the puck with too many players?"
I'm 99% sure the Bos-Tor comment was the Bruins (in Toronto's zone) retrieving the puck on the powerplay.

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02-05-2013, 04:19 PM
  #49
officeglen
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Originally Posted by BruinsBtn View Post
I'm 99% sure the Bos-Tor comment was the Bruins (in Toronto's zone) retrieving the puck on the powerplay.
Actually it was the Bruins, in their zone, on the penalty kill, but close

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02-05-2013, 04:19 PM
  #50
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
This is a goal scored by the Stars yesterday on a delayed penalty 6 on 5 yesterday. Avs couldn't get the puck off them for at least 15 or 20 seconds before they scored. Pause at 0:08 or 0:09 and notice how every Avs forward is on the right side of the rink going after the puck carrier leaving two Stars on the opposite wing open as well as the guy in the middle who'd eventually score (Benn). Starts with some terrible PA Parenteau defence where he loses two players on the same play:

Yeah, that basically comes down to Parenteau not giving enough of a **** to get back and cover someone. Duchene and Mitchell could probably have played it better, but that's at least 75% on Parenteau.

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