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State of defence:now and for cup run

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02-05-2013, 02:56 PM
  #1
yianik
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State of defence:now and for cup run

As this isnt the main part of the thread I will just say that with what we had after the Draft I thought we could be a good team in a couple of years with some additions and deductions. Seemed to me by MBs moves and non-moves he was targeting to be a deep play-off team within a few years of taking the helm. A big factor in that was Gally, and if he keeps it up we may not just be on course for that , but maybe a year faster. So I guess Im saying we may have a window opening in a season or two. Just wanted to see how the D fits that window.

Josh Gorges- hits but not a big hitter, a very solid and reliable defensive D-man. Best paired with offensive D-man. Signed for 5 more years after this one. Top 4 player.

PK Subban-offensively gifted in all respects and should improve as his game gets more polished and his hockey sense gets better. Likes to hit and to hit hard. Defensively is pretty good but does have room for improvement which is no surprise for a young D-man, especially an offensive minded one. Has all the tools to be a number one D-man, even an elite one. Has 2 years of RFA status afer next season. While his last contract took some doing I believe he likes it here and this is a great stage for him. I have no doubt that he will show us he should get the big money long term and the Habs will give it to him. The 2 years of RFA status will work to our advantage as we leverage it into a long term deal. Doughty money long term. Best teamed with defensively solid player.

Andrei Markov- excels in every offensive skill. Defensively not a big hitter but superb anticipation and positioning allows him to break-up opposition attacks. He is elite, a star player. He is 34 but given his high skill set you can see him playing well above average, say top 2, for 3-5 years more. Our Niklas Lidstrom. Is UFA after next season but loves it here and will stay a Hab as long as we offer him a contract. Can be paired with any style player, but more defensively responsible better so The General can do his thing.

Alexei Emelin- showed offence in last year of KHL but not here so far, so a defensive D-man. Defence is pretty good. His feature is he hits alot and hard. He is a wrecking ball that impacts a game because opposing players must keep track of him on the ice as they dont want to be demolished and be on highlights of the night. He is top 4and is UFA after next season. Must keep this guy. N. Grossman, a big UFA to be defensive D-man who hits, but not even close to Emelin signed with Flyers for 3.5M a year.Volchenkov signed as a UFA with the Devils for $4.25M per year and he is the closest comparison I have, but Emelin is younger and hits more and harder. Im guessing $4.5M to $4.75M to sign him long term. Best paired with offensive guy.

Raphael Diaz- okay defensively, best on bottom pairing there. Pretty decent offensively so could play top 4 with those skills. All in all a bottom pairing D-man to be used on the PP. Great asset for us as he could fillm in to our top 4 if one of our offensive guys has pneumonia. Is UFA after next season and there is the problem. There are teams where Diaz could play top 4 and therefore he could get $4M or so as a UFA. I know , Kaberle, but I dont see MB paying a guy $4M to be on the 3rd line, and even if he was interested in doing that, Diaz might want to go somewhere where he can play more.

Kaberle and Weber. Dont need Kaberle and Weber wont get a chance to play here. Both dont fit the future, Kaberle doesnt fit the now.

Prospects- we get too high and too low on prospects. All I know is we have a whole bunch of prospects , including a couple of first rounders who may not be taking our breath away right now but very usual for even top 4 guys to be to take 2-3 years of pro hockey to get any amount of time on the NHL team. With the numbers and TT having picked Im sure we will develop at least a couple or 3 guys who will be NHL regulars, and we should start seeing them get NHL time in the next year or two.

Signing all our top 4 guys for the next 4-5 years is the key here and to me it looks like a great top 4. I know some are saying we should move Markov but I wouldnt. Yes there will be the risk of him getting pneumonia again, but his talent is so high and what he brings to the table and can likely bring for the next number of years, in our window, cant likely be brought back in a trade. Diaz is a lesser conundrom, but one nontheless, maybe should move him next year at some point as I just dont see the Cap space for him.

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02-05-2013, 03:01 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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Forgot Boullion and Emelin @ 4.5 is ridiculous, he should learn how to play defence first! Looks like Markov is working his magic again.

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02-05-2013, 03:47 PM
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yianik
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Forgot Boullion and Emelin @ 4.5 is ridiculous, he should learn how to play defence first! Looks like Markov is working his magic again.
Your right, son was crying and got distracted. Cubes is a good guy for the bottom pairing who. I think, we could sign on one year deals for as long as needed. As to Emelin and the $4.5M, given the other guys I mentioned I think its about right for a top 4 bone crushing defensive D-man.

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02-05-2013, 04:14 PM
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Blind Gardien
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The D is about as good as it needs to be... as long as Markov stays healthy. Obviously Kaberle is gone, maybe or maybe not Weber, so anything extra we get from replacing them is a bonus, but I don't really seei it being at the upper end or changing the dynamic. Maybe Tinordi is ready next year, more likely not IMHO, but regardless... we are looking fine on D and at G.

Just need to get the real impact at forward. A decent committee there now. But still lacking a consistent gamebreaker. That could be Galchenyuk. When? Could lose some of the supporting cast around him by that time. So keeping up with things up front is the overall challenge, IMHO.

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02-05-2013, 05:42 PM
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lesHabitants514
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I think the system that Therrien has put in helps our defencemen a lot. We move well as a team in all 3 zones and we have puck support in the defensive zone to move the puck out quickly..... but... when the playoffs come around a big, strong, even unspectacular, defence can take you far..(I.E: Los Angeles, Vancouver, Boston, Chicago). I have NO problem with our top 4-(PK, Emelin, Gorges and Markov) but if one of them gets hurt and you have Diaz, Weber, Kaberle and Bouillon to fill that void, it's a little scary....Love Bouillon but not a top 4, none of them are..... I'd like to see 1 or 2 bottom pairers traded for some size....Gives the coaching staff some options for their match ups...

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02-05-2013, 05:55 PM
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TennisMenace
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Diaz will probably go elsewhere because we can't pay all our D guys 4+ million.

Besides, I'd rather spend my money on a big center if we could find one.

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02-05-2013, 06:01 PM
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yianik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesHabitants514 View Post
I think the system that Therrien has put in helps our defencemen a lot. We move well as a team in all 3 zones and we have puck support in the defensive zone to move the puck out quickly..... but... when the playoffs come around a big, strong, even unspectacular, defence can take you far..(I.E: Los Angeles, Vancouver, Boston, Chicago). I have NO problem with our top 4-(PK, Emelin, Gorges and Markov) but if one of them gets hurt and you have Diaz, Weber, Kaberle and Bouillon to fill that void, it's a little scary....Love Bouillon but not a top 4, none of them are..... I'd like to see 1 or 2 bottom pairers traded for some size....Gives the coaching staff some options for their match ups...
I think the hope is that this is where Tinordi comes in over the next couple of years.Fun part is that some other prospect comes out of the blue a bit and shows he belongs.

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02-05-2013, 06:06 PM
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The D is in great shape. Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, and Boullion is very good if a little on the short side. Tinordi replacing Boullion next year takes care of alot of that.

Beaulieu I hope the org is patient with him, I just hope he's ready to be an offensive contributer the year after next when Markovs deal runs out.

Next year I see:

Markov-Emelin
Gorges-Subban
Tinordi-Diaz

That's a B+ group no matter how you slice it.

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02-05-2013, 08:02 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Diaz will probably go elsewhere because we can't pay all our D guys 4+ million.

Besides, I'd rather spend my money on a big center if we could find one.
If Diaz or Emelin think they are worth 4million then they can both go elsewhere. Gorges only gets 3.9 and those two aren't even close. Until their game vastly improves they are worth around 2.5M.

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02-05-2013, 08:41 PM
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dackelljuneaubulis02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
The D is in great shape. Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, and Boullion is very good if a little on the short side. Tinordi replacing Boullion next year takes care of alot of that.

Beaulieu I hope the org is patient with him, I just hope he's ready to be an offensive contributer the year after next when Markovs deal runs out.

Next year I see:

Markov-Emelin
Gorges-Subban
Tinordi-Diaz

That's a B+ group no matter how you slice it.
B+!?!? You don't have 2 elite D in your top 4 and have a bottom pairing as good as that and only be a B+. Maybe if Gorges and Emelin were duds which they are definitely not

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02-05-2013, 08:48 PM
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la25ecoupe
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Beaulieu - Tinordi
Gorges - Subban
Diaz - Emelin
Weber

(in 5 years)

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02-05-2013, 08:49 PM
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InglewoodJack
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The team is good enough to win a cup. The only thing that's a variable here is if these guys actually maintain their good play.

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02-05-2013, 08:56 PM
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sharks9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
If Diaz or Emelin think they are worth 4million then they can both go elsewhere. Gorges only gets 3.9 and those two aren't even close. Until their game vastly improves they are worth around 2.5M.
Agreed. 2.5 - 3 million depending on what the cap is 2 years from now.

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02-05-2013, 10:18 PM
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HiggsBozon
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To me this team looks like it's still missing a big body defenseman to clear the crease and jump on the rebounds with authority. It's something that might have to be addressed this summer. Some might suggest Tinordi, and it might not be that bad of an idea. Personally though, I still think he could benefit from some seasoning in the AHL to develop his mean streak and his hitting game, as he's spent most of the time adjusting to the speed of this league so far.

As for Diaz, he's having a great start, but to me he's also the guy who's riding Markov's shotgun. Don't get me wrong, he's got more poise overall, but I still see glimpses of softness on the blueline sometimes. He struggles a lot to keep the puck in the offensive zone and will generally be easily outmuscled in the corners. He's definitely NHL worthy, but I'd still wait before suggesting he's the big deal.

Emelin improved a lot and started the season great. That being said ever since his monster night against the Jets I think he's been a bit less solid overall.

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