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The Markov Conundrum

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Old
02-05-2013, 05:51 PM
  #201
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The team is looking up. Everyone is excited about the future because we got a high pick last year and when Koivu left the sky didn't fall.

Just too bad we weren't smart enough to deal him when he had value. We'd be that much further ahead. And I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm slagging Saku, I'm not. But the name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back and besides, we let him walk for nothing anyway.
No, I understand what you mean - and you aren't wrong in the sense that trading him would have been better than what we did. But the problem with Saku wasn't that it was ever "too late" to trade him - he didn't physically fall apart or anything, it was poor asset management but in half because Gainey's idea of an upgrade was the Gomez trade. Letting Saku walk for nothing wouldn't have hurt as much if he was replaced properly.

Likewise, I agree Markov isn't worth more than the team - if some desperate team wants to give the Habs McD or OEL for Markov, I agree, you do that. But the Rangers love their American players, it looks to me like McD is pretty much untouchable, as much as we all want the one who got away.

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02-05-2013, 06:07 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
No, I understand what you mean - and you aren't wrong in the sense that trading him would have been better than what we did. But the problem with Saku wasn't that it was ever "too late" to trade him - he didn't physically fall apart or anything, it was poor asset management but in half because Gainey's idea of an upgrade was the Gomez trade. Letting Saku walk for nothing wouldn't have hurt as much if he was replaced properly.

Likewise, I agree Markov isn't worth more than the team - if some desperate team wants to give the Habs McD or OEL for Markov, I agree, you do that. But the Rangers love their American players, it looks to me like McD is pretty much untouchable, as much as we all want the one who got away.
You know even if we were playing well, it would be awfully hard to turn down McD for Markov. I don't think McD will ever be as good as Markov is/was offensively but he had a great first year. Some good offensive talent and really steady. I don't know what's happening over there this season but last year he was an absolute stud. Great for his first year in the league.

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02-05-2013, 07:51 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by MarkovsKnee View Post
Too many things need to happen, such as Marky playing well and staying healthy over the next couple of months. We would also have to spiral down and be out of the playoffs for a Marky trade to happen.
And therein lies the rub.

It is very, very unlikely that both of those things will happen. If Markov is playing really well, the Habs won't spiral out of the playoffs picture.

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02-05-2013, 07:59 PM
  #204
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Haaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa ahaaaaaaa.........stupid!

me leaving thread LMAO

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02-05-2013, 08:28 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
And therein lies the rub.

It is very, very unlikely that both of those things will happen. If Markov is playing really well, the Habs won't spiral out of the playoffs picture.
once both happen, you then have to convince him to waive his NTC...

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02-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You know even if we were playing well, it would be awfully hard to turn down McD for Markov. I don't think McD will ever be as good as Markov is/was offensively but he had a great first year. Some good offensive talent and really steady. I don't know what's happening over there this season but last year he was an absolute stud. Great for his first year in the league.
While I think McD is somewhat overrated by Habs fans for obvious reasons...that's a trade that would be very hard to turn down, I agree. I don't think McD is exceptional at anything but he's good to very good across the board and a Subban and McD combo gives you a first pairing for the next decade. It's hard to resist that.

But I doubt either team does that trade anyway, like I said, the Rangers aren't trading an American of that pedigree. Likewise, I get trading Markov for a Hedman, OEL or Pietrangelo, but also, not happening.

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02-05-2013, 10:40 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
While I think McD is somewhat overrated by Habs fans for obvious reasons...that's a trade that would be very hard to turn down, I agree. I don't think McD is exceptional at anything but he's good to very good across the board and a Subban and McD combo gives you a first pairing for the next decade. It's hard to resist that.

But I doubt either team does that trade anyway, like I said, the Rangers aren't trading an American of that pedigree. Likewise, I get trading Markov for a Hedman, OEL or Pietrangelo, but also, not happening.
Exactly.

Only a contending team would be going for a player like Markov and the only players of interest on that team would be players that are already important factors in that teams success, they wouldn't be coming back the other way. You'd have to settle for draft picks and players with potential, but who aren't making an immediate impact. It's a big gamble if you believe the team can content in 2-3 years time.

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02-05-2013, 11:10 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Andrei79 View Post
Exactly.

Only a contending team would be going for a player like Markov and the only players of interest on that team would be players that are already important factors in that teams success, they wouldn't be coming back the other way. You'd have to settle for draft picks and players with potential, but who aren't making an immediate impact. It's a big gamble if you believe the team can content in 2-3 years time.
You never know, the thrashers traded Braydon Coburn for Keith Tkachuck.

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02-05-2013, 11:14 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
While I think McD is somewhat overrated by Habs fans for obvious reasons...that's a trade that would be very hard to turn down, I agree. I don't think McD is exceptional at anything but he's good to very good across the board and a Subban and McD combo gives you a first pairing for the next decade. It's hard to resist that.

But I doubt either team does that trade anyway, like I said, the Rangers aren't trading an American of that pedigree. Likewise, I get trading Markov for a Hedman, OEL or Pietrangelo, but also, not happening.
Well, let's be honest... none of this is going to happen. The guy also has a no-trade clause on top of everything else so we'd have to get him to accept it even if we wanted to deal him.

Interesting to see where people's heads are at though. Sad that we're sitting here wondering if we'd trade him for McD though seeing as how all we had to do was not give him away...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei79 View Post
Exactly.

Only a contending team would be going for a player like Markov and the only players of interest on that team would be players that are already important factors in that teams success, they wouldn't be coming back the other way. You'd have to settle for draft picks and players with potential, but who aren't making an immediate impact. It's a big gamble if you believe the team can content in 2-3 years time.
A team might do it if they think he's the last piece of the puzzle. Primeau+ for Shanahan, Zhitnik for Coburn... If you've got something a team needs they might do it. But they have to be contenders and they really have to need what you've got.

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02-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You know even if we were playing well, it would be awfully hard to turn down McD for Markov. I don't think McD will ever be as good as Markov is/was offensively but he had a great first year. Some good offensive talent and really steady. I don't know what's happening over there this season but last year he was an absolute stud. Great for his first year in the league.
The only way something like that would happen is if McD was having an absolutely dreadful season at which point we would question whether McD is really as good as he looked last year. Think of it like this, if we had been contenders last year but Subban was struggling would we want to trade him for Dan Boyle? Didn't think so.

The only desperate team that might be willing to overpay for Markov is Washington, if they think the only way to get Ovie back on track is to get his best friend Markov.

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02-05-2013, 11:28 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
That's a huge assumption. Mid to late 30s players you never know. You can name a bunch who aged well and then there are those who don't. And Markov's knee is definitely something to consider there.
He'll be 34 at the start of next season, that's not Mid to Late 30s. Add to that most D especially those that play an intelligent positional type of game usually stay good until their late 30s. The only concern is if he's no longer the same player because of the injuries, so far it's looking good for that.

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02-05-2013, 11:37 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You never know, the thrashers traded Braydon Coburn for Keith Tkachuck.
Wasn't it for Zhitnik? But anyways that was the year Philly was 2nd worst. If we were in the basement this year again I think there would be a lot more willingness to trade Markov.

Plus Zhitnik was no longer very good anyways, Atlanta really misjudged his level of play. But in any case if someone is willing to massively overpay then obviously we trade him, but the same applies for Price, Subban, Galchenyuk so it's irrelavent.

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02-06-2013, 12:01 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You never know, the thrashers traded Braydon Coburn for Keith Tkachuck.
was for Zhitnik not Katchuk, and yet another example of a team acquiring yuongsters/prospects who have yet to win a cup...

good thing you're in astronomy cause as a lawyer you'd be eating Kraft Dinner 365 days a year

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02-06-2013, 12:12 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Wasn't it for Zhitnik? But anyways that was the year Philly was 2nd worst. If we were in the basement this year again I think there would be a lot more willingness to trade Markov.

Plus Zhitnik was no longer very good anyways, Atlanta really misjudged his level of play. But in any case if someone is willing to massively overpay then obviously we trade him, but the same applies for Price, Subban, Galchenyuk so it's irrelavent.
Markov for McD... sure.
Subban for McD... no.

There's a difference man.

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02-06-2013, 03:18 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Markov for McD... sure.
Subban for McD... no.

There's a difference man.
You clearly missed the point, if someone is willing to massively overpay for ANY player you do the deal.

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02-06-2013, 11:59 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
You clearly missed the point, if someone is willing to massively overpay for ANY player you do the deal.
Read that post again. I'm telling you there's a difference between older and younger players... giving up Markov isn't the same as PK. And I'd be much more willing to deal Markov than PK.

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02-06-2013, 12:22 PM
  #217
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Markov's past "never spectacular" playoff performances should be considered. If the Habs make the playoffs this year, I think it will be Markov's last test before a decision is made to even consider not resigning him (asking him to waive his NTC) next year.

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02-06-2013, 01:12 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by BubbleGumPlant View Post
Markov's past "never spectacular" playoff performances should be considered. If the Habs make the playoffs this year, I think it will be Markov's last test before a decision is made to even consider not resigning him (asking him to waive his NTC) next year.
Not sure what you mean by "never spectacular". He is never a spectacular player but a very smart and effective one. If he has help on defense he will be a major contributor.

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