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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #476
Kjell Dahlin
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UPDATE: Desharnais sent, again, his haters back in their freakin’ caves. Don’t worry: they will be back and we will be able to laugh at them all over again. On a side note, Lefebvre will need to find himself someone else for his second line center position.

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02-05-2013, 02:23 AM
  #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Desharnais is not a top 2 center for a contending NHL team. The Habs should send him down to Hamilton to help prepare our prospect wingers to make the jump to the big club, just like he did with MaxPac.
Even if the have to pay him a one way contract $1M per year to help our prospects.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Desharnais may be a top 6 winger at the nhl level... But he is not a top 6 center.

We shiukd try him on the wing... He might be very good there.
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I'll say what I said last year. He needs to be moved.
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Posts like this drive me crazy!!!!
He's lucky if he will get 1 million$. It's funny, but not one person on any other team has offered a 1 for 1 center trade with DD in this thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1336155
It seems that no other fan base wants him. But let's pay him top salary in Montreal eh
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Maybe the Habs should had kept Gomez.


DD and Eller are pretty inept so far.
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
DD has 2 shots on goal in 5 games, playin more than 16 minute/game ane with a ton powerplay....White got 7 even Moen got 3.....that's not just a slow start, that close to ridiculous!

He's minus 1...while 17 other players are in the plus.
He got two passes sor far, one on a powerplay and One on a 5 on 3.

1- His ice time dropped with Therrien playing all 4 lines
2- The Gallys experience work so well, Gally27 start to take PP out of DD's time.
¸
Therrien use a pro-active systems....players must go after the puck and try to force the other teams into mistakes. Martin...the other way around, wait for the other team's mistakes,

DD won't fit that mole, not enough good in his battle one-on-one

But in the end.....it just so easy to stop DD from playing this games.
Therrien wants speed.....he's slow
Therrien wants grit......he got none
Therrien wants toughness....he got none

Tradeblock as far as i'm concern before his value drop too low!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Before long, Galchenyuk will pivot the first line. I don't know if it will happen this season, as he has much to learn and he can benefit from playing with Officer Prust. DD isn't going to knock Plekanec out of the line up, and I can't see DD playing on a checking line.

His days are numbered. We simply have better options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Sit DD
Eller in his place at center
Pull Armstrong up to play on his line and have Weber replace him on the 4th

Send the msg that his performance has been sub par and more is expected
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
His buddies are not playing as well this year. DD was still losing battles along the boards last year.

I'm not going to debate if this is the real DD or last year, but I know that him centering one of the top 2 lines is not sustainable.
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
This is not a french/english debate (for me at least). I'm making the point that he is not NHL caliber. Let's see how he does playing along side someone not named Pacioretty and get back to me then.
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Ok I'll repeat myself since you skipped one of my earlier posts.
He can't handle strong passes. They roll off his stick most of the time.
He has below average speed for a guy his size.
He loses most puck battles in corners.
His forecheck is completely useless, always one step too late.
He's lost in the defensive zone, often floating around.
Gets outmuscled daily....

Do you need more? So far 0 good games out of 4. One last thing, find me one NHL team willing to trade their 1st or 2nd line center for Desharnais straight up.

That is all, for now...
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Originally Posted by Lizardking89 View Post
Well said. Alot of people drank too much DD koolaid and wanted to trade Pleks over the summer. He's had one good season and now that other teams know what he brings to the table. That first line with Cole and Patches were effectively shut down. DD is a 3rd line center at best going forward once AG27 is ready to play on the first line.
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Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
Not really a slow start, thats the kind of game I expect out of DD, last year was an exception he had a line that was on fire, I doubt they repeat this year but who knows.
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
therein lies the problem. one midget in the top 6 is enough. how is DD supposed to win a single puck battle? he doesn't even have good speed for a small guy
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Im still waiting to see Desharnais's underrated shot..

Very small, average speed, weak shot.. Last year DD had time to make his plays cause he was playing with 2 fast power fowards at the top of their game creating ton of space everywhere on the ice.. This year, his weakness are more apparent cause Cole is cold, has a slow start (what was to be expected) and Max is now injured.. Hopefully Eller can jump in and have an impact on this line cause if not, we are in trouble.. I love Desharnais' determination but lets be honest, he is a decent filler at best, marginal NHLer.. There is no way I see him on the wings, would get killed along the boards, the kid is a natural center, I dont see a different way to use him, just keep giving him 2 big talended wingers that skate well and can create room on the ice so he can have time to setup them.. Then you reevaluate the center position this summer, you let him walk or sign him cheap for 1 more year.. there is no way we overpay for a marginal NHLer.. no way..
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Yes it's just been 4 games but you would expect a little more from a guy that's been playing during the lockout. I hope he turns it around but I honestly think he never repeats last year's performance and glad we didn't dump Plekanec like many people suggested we should
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
How about DD sits for a game or two?
If it's good enough for elller..............
Before this thread disappears... I think we should remember who the naysayers were, all of which are suddenly silent, because they will be facing this situation by the end of the season :


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Old
02-05-2013, 02:56 AM
  #478
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Listen guys, I understand we all want our players to be big, strong, fast, skilled and so on but the only reason why DD gets unnecessary hate is because he's small and was never drafted (and because he's french).

DD is our best offensive center (will be surpassed by Galchenyuk very soon) whether you like or not and while he gets way too much love at RDS (and in french medias in general), he gets way too much hate on these boards.

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02-05-2013, 03:29 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
DD is our best offensive center (will be surpassed by Galchenyuk very soon) whether you like or not and while he gets way too much love at RDS (and in french medias in general), he gets way too much hate on these boards.
I disagree on him being the best offensive center. That's Plekanec. I highly doubt DD could do what Plekanec does offensively if he didn't have great wingers.

That said, DD represents a guilt Habs fans have in not being pushed around regardless of success. DD unfortunately does get pushed around a lot, especially in the last few games and it has broken up plays. But when he's going, he's hard to catch. He's an excellent set up man and deserves praise for it.

Desharnais has fought, scratched and clawed for every minute of ice time he has received and he's probably a big inspiration in the locker room for that.

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02-05-2013, 04:10 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I disagree on him being the best offensive center. That's Plekanec. I highly doubt DD could do what Plekanec does offensively if he didn't have great wingers.

That said, DD represents a guilt Habs fans have in not being pushed around regardless of success. DD unfortunately does get pushed around a lot, especially in the last few games and it has broken up plays. But when he's going, he's hard to catch. He's an excellent set up man and deserves praise for it.

Desharnais has fought, scratched and clawed for every minute of ice time he has received and he's probably a big inspiration in the locker room for that.
exactly, lest not forget that while everyone thought #14 was having a bad season offensively last year, he still managed 50+ pts playing alongside Geoffrion, Moen, Darche, White, Staubitz and co for more or less half he season...

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02-05-2013, 05:19 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Before this thread disappears... I think we should remember who the naysayers were, all of which are suddenly silent, because they will be facing this situation by the end of the season :

DD is not a legitimate top-6 center on a good team, I stand by that statement.

By the end of this season Galchenyuk-Plekanec will be our top-2 centers, which supports my argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed
I disagree on him being the best offensive center. That's Plekanec. I highly doubt DD could do what Plekanec does offensively if he didn't have great wingers.
It's amazing that anybody can think that Desharnais is offensively superior to Plekanec.

Plekanec scored 52 points last year playing with White, Staubitz, Moen, Darche, etc; against elite opposition; and disproportionately from the defensive zone.
Desharnais scored 60 points last year playing with Pacioretty and Cole; against tertiary opposition; and disproportionately from the offensive zone.

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Old
02-05-2013, 05:50 AM
  #482
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DD didn't play start the year with EC and Pac, else he would have had more points. Plus, imagine his numbers with healthy Markov. Bet he would have reached 70, like Plek did with Kovalev and a no 1 PP.

Plek didn't play the whole year with White, Staubitz, Moen, Darche, etc. He also played with Cammy, AK46, Cole and Gionta. No matter who he played with he didn't have a good year, stop making excuses for him. He played the pre-season and a few regular season games with Cole and couldn't generate anything. Had he played better he wouldn't have been relegated to the second line. DD lost his spot once but again, Plek didn't take advantage of the opportunity. If he could be patient in the o-zone and cycle the puck like DD he would have never lost it. If not in the transition game, Plek doesn't come close to providing his wingers the scoring chances DD does. Good for him that Markov is back.

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02-05-2013, 06:01 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzion View Post
DD didn't play start the year with EC and Pac, else he would have had more points. Plus, imagine his numbers with healthy Markov. Bet he would have reached 70, like Plek did with Kovalev and a no 1 PP.

Plek didn't play the whole year with White, Staubitz, Moen, Darche, etc. He also played with Cammy, AK46, Cole and Gionta. No matter who he played with he didn't have a good year, stop making excuses for him. He played the pre-season and a few regular season games with Cole and couldn't generate anything. Had he played better he wouldn't have been relegated to the second line. DD lost his spot once but again, Plek didn't take advantage of the opportunity. If he could be patient in the o-zone and cycle the puck like DD he would have never lost it. If not in the transition game, Plek doesn't come close to providing his wingers the scoring chances DD does. Good for him that Markov is back.
Desharnais played far more with Cole and Pacioretty than Plekanec played with the inferior Cammalleri. Brian Gionta missed 51 games due to injury last year. AK46 played with Eller and with Gomez and was then traded. Toward the end of last season Randy Cunneyworth was rolling Staubitz-Plekanec-White as out shutdown line.

In summary: Plekanec had a really good year given his role: shutdown duty against the league's best with linemates that were constantly changing and on average mediocre. I'm not making excuses, on the contrary, I'm declaring success.

BTW Markov is a moot point. None of Plekanec, Eller, Gomez, or Desharnais played with Markov last year

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02-05-2013, 06:42 AM
  #484
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I think Montreal for maybe two shifts tried Cammalleri - Plekanec - Cole and for those two shifts, they were showing really great chemistry. Then it got broken up for whatever reason. I think Montreal's season would have been quite different had that line stuck together but oh well, Galchenyuk makes up for it.

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02-05-2013, 07:58 AM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Before this thread disappears... I think we should remember who the naysayers were, all of which are suddenly silent, because they will be facing this situation by the end of the season :


Let me see.

DD made as many points as a third line winger in his rookie season (Gallagher)
He is third in points at center behind Plekanec and Galchenyuk
He is still deadlast in the faceoff behind Eller, Plek, Galchenyuk and White
His wingers Cole and Pacioretty score, combine, one single goal with him so far.

But still, he had a good week-end.

The thing you should consider is the fact that this guys doesn't put up points....he become totally useless. And we saw that with normal ice-time and PP Time (not 18 minutes and 5 minutes of PP like last Sunday) he become a way normal center.

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02-05-2013, 08:08 AM
  #486
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DD played 4 games so far with more than 18 minutes of ice time.
4 points in those games.

He played also 4 games with less than 16 minutes of ice times.
1 points in those games

Tell me that i'm a crazy DD-Haters.....but the fact remains, if you want to give more ice-time to Galchenyuk, it will come out of DD's ice-time. And then....you know what happens!!

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Old
02-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #487
DDs not undersized
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Let me see.

DD made as many points as a third line winger in his rookie season (Gallagher)
He is third in points at center behind Plekanec and Galchenyuk
He is still deadlast in the faceoff behind Eller, Plek, Galchenyuk and White
His wingers Cole and Pacioretty score, combine, one single goal with him so far.

But still, he had a good week-end.

The thing you should consider is the fact that this guys doesn't put up points....he become totally useless. And we saw that with normal ice-time and PP Time (not 18 minutes and 5 minutes of PP like last Sunday) he become a way normal center.
I see that you like using only the numbers that fit your opinion... Let's see :

Quote:
DD made as many points as a third line winger in his rookie season (Gallagher). But Gallagher is having an awesome start. Also, Desharnais is having as many points as Corey Perry. What does that mean? Nothing. Because you can't judge a player only on a chosen 8 games span.

He is third in points at center behind Plekanec and Galchenyuk. Who are both having incredible starts.

He is still deadlast in the faceoff behind Eller, Plek, Galchenyuk and White. Actually, Plekanec, Gally and DD are statistically equivalent in the faceoff circle. (only 1,8% separates them... 2 more faceoff wins would put DD in front of them) Eller and White took too little faceoffs for their stats to be significative.

His wingers Cole and Pacioretty score, combine, one single goal with him so far. Everybody agrees that Cole was putrid until the last game. And it's quite difficult to make a pass to Pacioretty while he's in the hospital... And why should DD be responsible for their lack of production? They are not good enough to score by themselves? So then, who made them so good last year?? If I understand well, now that DD is scoring goals, we blame him because his wingers are not scoring as many? Is DD also responsible for the climate changes?
Quote:
The thing you should consider is the fact that this guys doesn't put up points....he become totally useless.
I agree with this. But you know what? DD will put up a lot of points. (sorry if that bothers you)


Last edited by DDs not undersized: 02-05-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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02-05-2013, 11:11 AM
  #488
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For all the people who claim that Desharnais isn't good enough to be in the top-6 of a good team how do they explain Krejci? When Boston won the cup he put up 62 points flanked by Horton and Lucic, is he merely a product of his linemates too?

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02-05-2013, 11:12 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
DD played 4 games so far with more than 18 minutes of ice time.
4 points in those games.

He played also 4 games with less than 16 minutes of ice times.
1 points in those games

Tell me that i'm a crazy DD-Haters.....but the fact remains, if you want to give more ice-time to Galchenyuk, it will come out of DD's ice-time. And then....you know what happens!!
Wait wait, so now gally doesn't get easy minutes anymore?

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02-05-2013, 06:14 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
DD is not a legitimate top-6 center on a good team, I stand by that statement.

By the end of this season Galchenyuk-Plekanec will be our top-2 centers, which supports my argument.


It's amazing that anybody can think that Desharnais is offensively superior to Plekanec.

Plekanec scored 52 points last year playing with White, Staubitz, Moen, Darche, etc; against elite opposition; and disproportionately from the defensive zone.
Desharnais scored 60 points last year playing with Pacioretty and Cole; against tertiary opposition; and disproportionately from the offensive zone.
I agree 100%.....I don't think Desharnais is a legit number 1 C.

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02-05-2013, 06:16 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
For all the people who claim that Desharnais isn't good enough to be in the top-6 of a good team how do they explain Krejci? When Boston won the cup he put up 62 points flanked by Horton and Lucic, is he merely a product of his linemates too?
Bah....let me put it to you this way.

If you're offered Krejci for Desharnais....what do you say?

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02-05-2013, 06:22 PM
  #492
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For all the people who claim that Desharnais isn't good enough to be in the top-6 of a good team how do they explain Krejci? When Boston won the cup he put up 62 points flanked by Horton and Lucic, is he merely a product of his linemates too?
I think Lucic is a product of Krejci. He's much inferior to Pacioretty as a hockey player. Cole and Horton are pretty comparable, depending on what you're looking for.

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02-05-2013, 07:13 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by muzion View Post
DD didn't play start the year with EC and Pac, else he would have had more points. Plus, imagine his numbers with healthy Markov. Bet he would have reached 70, like Plek did with Kovalev and a no 1 PP.

Plek didn't play the whole year with White, Staubitz, Moen, Darche, etc. He also played with Cammy, AK46, Cole and Gionta. No matter who he played with he didn't have a good year, stop making excuses for him. He played the pre-season and a few regular season games with Cole and couldn't generate anything. Had he played better he wouldn't have been relegated to the second line. DD lost his spot once but again, Plek didn't take advantage of the opportunity. If he could be patient in the o-zone and cycle the puck like DD he would have never lost it. If not in the transition game, Plek doesn't come close to providing his wingers the scoring chances DD does. Good for him that Markov is back.
DD isnt the only one benefiting from having Markov back you know...

Gionta missed MORE than half the season last year in case you didnt know...

before being traded, A.K. spent the majority of the season with Eller, not Plekanec...

Cammy was putrid, and as we can see now in Cagary, it sure wasnt Plekanecs fault...


excuses ? more like you trying to find anything possible to make #14 looks bad.

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02-05-2013, 07:14 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Bah....let me put it to you this way.

If you're offered Krejci for Desharnais....what do you say?
You mean, a C that will probably not be with us anymore within the next 2 or 3 years ? I'll take the cheaper one thank you.

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02-05-2013, 11:32 PM
  #495
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We have three good lines. One day, the Plekanec line is the number one, the other it's the Desharnais line and the other it's the Galchenyuk line their is nothing wrong with that and so, we don't have a number one centerman. Is Desharnais a number one center? I don't know but who cares because we are winning because of our balanced offense and he is a key member of that. He is not as complete as Plekanec since Thomas is a way better shooter but he is the best playmaker of that team. And big strong centermen isn't the only key to sucess. Ask the Bruins and the Sharks about Joe Thornton, the perfect fit at the center position.....

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02-05-2013, 11:42 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Bah....let me put it to you this way.

If you're offered Krejci for Desharnais....what do you say?
I'd probably take Krejci but that's more due to the fact the Krejci has put up several seasons at that level whereas Desharnais has only one so could easily regress. But the point remains, you can win a cup with a somewhat small/soft 60pt center as your #1C.

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02-06-2013, 12:25 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Before this thread disappears... I think we should remember who the naysayers were, all of which are suddenly silent, because they will be facing this situation by the end of the season :

I'm a naysayer because I suggested he sit for a game?
He was dragging his ass, I'd say that about any player that plays on the top 2 lines.
In my opinion I don't merit being on the naysayer list for the above quoted comments.
That being said I will likely merit my spot on the list for the comment below:

Desharnais SHOULD be dealt as soon as we get a deal equivalent or better than 2 extra-large pizzas and 2 buckets of pucks.
He's a small center by any standards in a league thats looking to get bigger at that position. He lacks the strength required and thus must play with not 1 but 2 power forwards to make up for his shortcomings. The more money he makes the more detractors he will have. Let's see how he does when asked to play with a bunch of scrubs or a revolving door of linemates. I just hope that Bergevin makes the right decision when the time comes and does not fold because he is the only flying frenchman on a team once known as the flying frenchmen. Now that brings me to the next point, he doesn't really fly does he? For a little guy he's kinda slow isn't he?

There you go, that ought to do it, I earned my spot. feel free to bump this thread at any time so we can reminisce.

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02-06-2013, 12:29 AM
  #498
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Too many words, sentences and paragraphs.

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02-06-2013, 02:46 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
DD isnt the only one benefiting from having Markov back you know...

Gionta missed MORE than half the season last year in case you didnt know...

before being traded, A.K. spent the majority of the season with Eller, not Plekanec...

Cammy was putrid, and as we can see now in Cagary, it sure wasnt Plekanecs fault...


excuses ? more like you trying to find anything possible to make #14 looks bad.
What I'm saying is all these guys played at least a few games with Plek last year, and all of them performed under expectations wit him. He didn't create anything 5 on 5 thus lost his spot to DD. He had a bad year, deal with it.

People rag on DD for only reaching the 60 pt mark as a no 1 center, well he would have put up the same career highs that Plek did with a healthy Markov. So thrashing him for that is ridiculous. He created a lot of offense at even strength, something we've been lacking it seems forever, and for people to not recognize that is unfortunate.

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02-06-2013, 05:46 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by muzion View Post
What I'm saying is all these guys played at least a few games with Plek last year, and all of them performed under expectations wit him. He didn't create anything 5 on 5 thus lost his spot to DD. He had a bad year, deal with it.

People rag on DD for only reaching the 60 pt mark as a no 1 center, well he would have put up the same career highs that Plek did with a healthy Markov. So thrashing him for that is ridiculous. He created a lot of offense at even strength, something we've been lacking it seems forever, and for people to not recognize that is unfortunate.
The point is that DD only got 8 more points than Plekanec in spite of being in a vastly and comprehensively superior situation:

- Plekanec was up against a Corsi Rel Qoc of +0.905, DD was up against +0.007.
- Plekanec played with Staubitz, White, Moen, Darche; whereas DD played with Cole and Pacioretty.
- Plekanec had even-strength 308 offensive zone starts, whereas DD had 347 even-strength offensive zone starts, a massive 13% difference.
- Plekanec played 16 fewer minutes on the PP and 17 fewer minutes on ES.

In spite of all these advantages, some of which are massive, DD only had 8 more points, and 1 fewer goals. Ergo, it is clear that Plekanec is the superior offensive player. He's also superior defensively. Galchenyuk will soon be superior offensively. Where does that leave DD?

As some place else than a top-6 center. He could be, for example, a top-6 winger who becomes a top-6 center when there's an injury, that would be quite fine.

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