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Palffy, Lindors and others? Why would we sign just anyone?

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07-03-2006, 08:19 PM
  #1
RE-HABS
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Palffy, Lindors and others? Why would we sign just anyone?

I think fans here need to realize that you don't just sign a UFA for the sake of signing one! Names being bounced around here are quite comical in signing washed up players like Lindors to retired players like Palffy or players like Rucchin who makes no sense with players like Bonk on the team already.

We need to make a sigining only if it makes sense financially and chemistry wise to the team, Gainey isn't one to jump the gun. We are a team that can make its adjustments in a trade or through promotion of players from the AHL and CHL or Europe.

If most people notice the majority of the signings have been by non-playoff teams who are still lacking a lot even after making these signings. How is Toronto any better with an over priced D, McCabe maybe a one year wonder and Kubina is being paid about 2 million per more than he was even seeking! Kaberle is the only good and consistant Dman there, Raycroft is a very big question mark and their forwards are slim with nothing after Sundin who is declining in skill and have little cap space left to sign and re-sign players in the forward position.

Boston may have Chara and Mara on D and signed Savard, but lets face it Glen Murray isn't Kovalchuk or Hossa...I will be extremely surprised if Savard comes close to his numbers of last year, they too need to re-sign Bergeron and Boyes who won't be cheap.

Teams like New Jersey are in so much trouble with the cap after signing Elias, Langenbrunner and White that they will have to do ala Tampa Bay and trade good players (like Sydor for 4th round draft picks), how can NJ afford Gomez or Gionta? They may not be able to afford them both! They also need to sign Martin on D who won't be near his $500,000 salary of last season.

The best signings may have been by team like Nashville getting help at centre in Arnott, Minny signing Dmen like Carney and Johnsson and Parrish at forward to go with their newly aqcuired Demitra.

We aren't the only team being fiscally smart or looking for players maybe via trade instead. Not all 30 tams are signing players, and the ones signing players aren't necessarly making good signings or addressing their real need or needs. Look at Detroit, Edmonton, Dallas, Buffalo, NJ, Anaheim (sure they traded, but didn't sign UFA's) and ourselves (Montreal)...we aren't all out there making signings and these teams may have the best bunch of GM's in the league under Gainey, Lowe, Burke, Holland, Regier, Lamerillo (cap questions, but he is a proven winner) and Armstrong. They have signed their own first and have looked at the market and have obviously assessed it too expensive to sign players because they are getting too much money compaired to their worth, why do you thing Burke traded players, prospects and picks for Pronger? It made more sense, Pronger is cheaper than the D signed in Chara and doesn't come with a no trade clause and Lupol as good as he is is expendable with players like Getzlaf, Perry, Penner and a prospect like Ryan coming up makes a trade more reasonable financially and makes more sense to the team in all. Anaheim is a legit contender for the Cup even more so after this trade.

I like what the above GM's are doing and I think we will see Gainey take the same route, it may not be the splash Burke made with Pronger, but I believe it will be significant enough to address our needs and to improve ourselves to contender status as well, you can only tinker so much...if you do too much sometimes it leads to rebuilding all over again.

Stay the course, keep to the plan and it will come together.

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07-03-2006, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
I think fans here need to realize that you don't just sign a UFA for the sake of signing one! Names being bounced around here are quite comical in signing washed up players like Lindors to retired players like Palffy or players like Rucchin who makes no sense with players like Bonk on the team already.

We need to make a sigining only if it makes sense financially and chemistry wise to the team, Gainey isn't one to jump the gun. We are a team that can make its adjustments in a trade or through promotion of players from the AHL and CHL or Europe.

If most people notice the majority of the signings have been by non-playoff teams who are still lacking a lot even after making these signings. How is Toronto any better with an over priced D, McCabe maybe a one year wonder and Kubina is being paid about 2 million per more than he was even seeking! Kaberle is the only good and consistant Dman there, Raycroft is a very big question mark and their forwards are slim with nothing after Sundin who is declining in skill and have little cap space left to sign and re-sign players in the forward position.

Boston may have Chara and Mara on D and signed Savard, but lets face it Glen Murray isn't Kovalchuk or Hossa...I will be extremely surprised if Savard comes close to his numbers of last year, they too need to re-sign Bergeron and Boyes who won't be cheap.

Teams like New Jersey are in so much trouble with the cap after signing Elias, Langenbrunner and White that they will have to do ala Tampa Bay and trade good players (like Sydor for 4th round draft picks), how can NJ afford Gomez or Gionta? They may not be able to afford them both! They also need to sign Martin on D who won't be near his $500,000 salary of last season.

The best signings may have been by team like Nashville getting help at centre in Arnott, Minny signing Dmen like Carney and Johnsson and Parrish at forward to go with their newly aqcuired Demitra.

We aren't the only team being fiscally smart or looking for players maybe via trade instead. Not all 30 tams are signing players, and the ones signing players aren't necessarly making good signings or addressing their real need or needs. Look at Detroit, Edmonton, Dallas, Buffalo, NJ, Anaheim (sure they traded, but didn't sign UFA's) and ourselves (Montreal)...we aren't all out there making signings and these teams may have the best bunch of GM's in the league under Gainey, Lowe, Burke, Holland, Regier, Lamerillo (cap questions, but he is a proven winner) and Armstrong. They have signed their own first and have looked at the market and have obviously assessed it too expensive to sign players because they are getting too much money compaired to their worth, why do you thing Burke traded players, prospects and picks for Pronger? It made more sense, Pronger is cheaper than the D signed in Chara and doesn't come with a no trade clause and Lupol as good as he is is expendable with players like Getzlaf, Perry, Penner and a prospect like Ryan coming up makes a trade more reasonable financially and makes more sense to the team in all. Anaheim is a legit contender for the Cup even more so after this trade.

I like what the above GM's are doing and I think we will see Gainey take the same route, it may not be the splash Burke made with Pronger, but I believe it will be significant enough to address our needs and to improve ourselves to contender status as well, you can only tinker so much...if you do too much sometimes it leads to rebuilding all over again.

Stay the course, keep to the plan and it will come together.
I didn't like the 5 year term on arnott's contract.

It seems that teams try to outbid other teams by adding more years to the contract these days since you cant do it with money as much anyomore

Refreshing post BTW

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07-03-2006, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I didn't like the 5 year term on arnott's contract.

It seems that teams try to outbid other teams by adding more years to the contract these days since you cant do it with money as much anyomore

Refreshing post BTW
All the contracts are too long in my opinion (Gainey may see that as a down side too, after all the majority of these players are in the decline of their career not the prime), the Arnott contract is too long too, but the Preds addressed an obvious need unlike Toronto address ing their D but they will have a horrible short coming at forward and if Raycroft is the same goalie as last year they will need that D to be on 60 minutes a night for all 82 games to even be respectful in the standings.

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07-03-2006, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
I think fans here need to realize that you don't just sign a UFA for the sake of signing one! Names being bounced around here are quite comical in signing washed up players like Lindors to retired players like Palffy or players like Rucchin who makes no sense with players like Bonk on the team already.

We need to make a sigining only if it makes sense financially and chemistry wise to the team, Gainey isn't one to jump the gun. We are a team that can make its adjustments in a trade or through promotion of players from the AHL and CHL or Europe.

If most people notice the majority of the signings have been by non-playoff teams who are still lacking a lot even after making these signings. How is Toronto any better with an over priced D, McCabe maybe a one year wonder and Kubina is being paid about 2 million per more than he was even seeking! Kaberle is the only good and consistant Dman there, Raycroft is a very big question mark and their forwards are slim with nothing after Sundin who is declining in skill and have little cap space left to sign and re-sign players in the forward position.

Boston may have Chara and Mara on D and signed Savard, but lets face it Glen Murray isn't Kovalchuk or Hossa...I will be extremely surprised if Savard comes close to his numbers of last year, they too need to re-sign Bergeron and Boyes who won't be cheap.

Teams like New Jersey are in so much trouble with the cap after signing Elias, Langenbrunner and White that they will have to do ala Tampa Bay and trade good players (like Sydor for 4th round draft picks), how can NJ afford Gomez or Gionta? They may not be able to afford them both! They also need to sign Martin on D who won't be near his $500,000 salary of last season.

The best signings may have been by team like Nashville getting help at centre in Arnott, Minny signing Dmen like Carney and Johnsson and Parrish at forward to go with their newly aqcuired Demitra.

We aren't the only team being fiscally smart or looking for players maybe via trade instead. Not all 30 tams are signing players, and the ones signing players aren't necessarly making good signings or addressing their real need or needs. Look at Detroit, Edmonton, Dallas, Buffalo, NJ, Anaheim (sure they traded, but didn't sign UFA's) and ourselves (Montreal)...we aren't all out there making signings and these teams may have the best bunch of GM's in the league under Gainey, Lowe, Burke, Holland, Regier, Lamerillo (cap questions, but he is a proven winner) and Armstrong. They have signed their own first and have looked at the market and have obviously assessed it too expensive to sign players because they are getting too much money compaired to their worth, why do you thing Burke traded players, prospects and picks for Pronger? It made more sense, Pronger is cheaper than the D signed in Chara and doesn't come with a no trade clause and Lupol as good as he is is expendable with players like Getzlaf, Perry, Penner and a prospect like Ryan coming up makes a trade more reasonable financially and makes more sense to the team in all. Anaheim is a legit contender for the Cup even more so after this trade.

I like what the above GM's are doing and I think we will see Gainey take the same route, it may not be the splash Burke made with Pronger, but I believe it will be significant enough to address our needs and to improve ourselves to contender status as well, you can only tinker so much...if you do too much sometimes it leads to rebuilding all over again.

Stay the course, keep to the plan and it will come together.
What exactly is the plan to bring home the cup. What is the plan??????????????????????????????????????? Detroit didnt need to improve. Many teams needed to improve and did. What exactly is this plan???????

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07-03-2006, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
What exactly is the plan to bring home the cup. What is the plan??????????????????????????????????????? Detroit didnt need to improve. Many teams needed to improve and did. What exactly is this plan???????
so what do you want to do?

Sign guys like arnott to 5 year terms and throw up your hands when the core youngsters are due for raises?

Its the length of these contracts that scares me and could backfire down the road for a team that is trying to build from within

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07-03-2006, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
What exactly is the plan to bring home the cup. What is the plan??????????????????????????????????????? Detroit didnt need to improve. Many teams needed to improve and did. What exactly is this plan???????
Detroit doesn't have a starting goalie (Osgood is signed as aback up and they let Legace go), they lost Yzerman and more than likely will lose Shanahan too...and Fischer isn't there either because of his heart problem...how can you say they don't have any areas to address? Their D is all old in Wooley, Chelios and Schnieder...if anyone could some UFA signings it is Detroit!

Carolina pretty much won the cup with their team from the start and only added Weight and Recchi at the deadline, a team maybe easier to assess during the season aginst the new competition than it is before the season even starts.

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07-03-2006, 08:38 PM
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think about it like this, what happens next season if the cap stays the same or actually decreases huh? all these teams that overpaid players and gave them multi-year contracts will be screwed like nobody's business. with all of these gms throwing money around like nothing, i expect next seasons ufa's batch to be paid considerably less as this is the first offeason where unrestricted free agency has been truely affected by the new cap rules. This new era is still fresh, and the smart GM's are holding back and trying to predict what this new financial atmosphere will do for their team.

Why give arnott 4.5 million now for 5 years now, when you can give a much better player like briere a similar contract next season? understand the situation, and be patient. there's no reason to rush anything by reacting irrationally.

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07-03-2006, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
think about it like this, what happens next season if the cap stays the same or actually decreases huh? all these teams that overpaid players and gave them multi-year contracts will be screwed like nobody's business. with all of these gms throwing money around like nothing, i expect next seasons ufa's batch to be paid considerably less as this is the first offeason where unrestricted free agency has been truely affected by the new cap rules. This new era is still fresh, and the smart GM's are holding back and trying to predict what this new financial atmosphere will do for their team.

Why give arnott 4.5 million now for 5 years now, when you can give a much better player like briere a similar contract next season? understand the situation, and be patient. there's no reason to rush anything by reacting irrationally.
brilliant

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07-03-2006, 08:42 PM
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Just because someone makes a post suggesting that a certain playing may be able to help doesn't mean they are suggesting a signing for the sake of a signing. I think someone like Lindros (if he would come here) could be had relatively cheap with a contract that includes bonuses. I'd rather see the Habs take a chance on Lindros for $1 million/1 Year contract than sit still and not improve the centre position. It's not like the $1 million is gonna hurt us capwise and prevent us from acquiring a player down the line. Sure Lindros could get the bananas knocked out of him on the first shift of the season, but there is also the possibility that he chips in with a 30/30 season or more.

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07-03-2006, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
What exactly is the plan to bring home the cup. What is the plan??????????????????????????????????????? Detroit didnt need to improve. Many teams needed to improve and did. What exactly is this plan???????


I don't know what Gainey's plan is but I can take a shot.

Make the playoffs, bring in youth, move unwanted contracts off the team or players that don't fit the system.

We made the playoffs in each of Gainey's 2 seasons as GM, hopefully we continue to make the playoffs.

Markov, Ryder, Ribeiro, Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin, were all drafted by the Habs from the '98 draft to the '02 draft. Add in Murray and the team has filtered youth into the lineup over time. I get the feeling that Gainey has stepped up the pace for injecting young players into the lineup, since we have been known for taking our time in developing young talent. Next year we could see a couple more young players mixed in. Kostitsyn, Lapierre, Ferland, Danis, Cote have gotten their feet wet, Chipchura, Grabovsky, Latendressse could be next in line to get a taste of the NHL.

Removed Theodore's problem contract, got rid of mistakes like Dags, Vandy. Let Bulis and Sunny leave.

I know the theme of late is to blast Gainey for not bringing in UFA's but you would think that fans would be used to this by now. How often do we get UFA's (aside from resigning our own) What is the obession with over spending? Who's to say it will even help.

Imo this team is not a cup contender and might not be a consistent one for years (since any team that makes the playoffs can ride a hot goalie but I'm talking about being a threat every year). The youth will take time to develop and progress and there's not much in the way of superstar players. Frankly I'd rather see a good, hard working, fast skating skilled team that never quits, plays smart hockey and has a strong farm system.

We got a taste of what our prospects can do this year and we'll need them to continue to progress develop. Higgins and Plekanec imo were really impressive but the team will need them to build off that. Perezhogin must have a better season but there's a lot of hope with him. Komisarek really turned things around after tough personal problems. I hope to see Ryder play more effective without the puck. Perhaps we will start to get a better look at Kostitsyn and other prospects to see what they can bring. I'm a big fan of Lapierre's game, and think Grabovsky could be a big surprise.

Imo,

It's going to take good coaching from Carbo and his staff to get the team playing hard every night as a unit, blocking shots, taking the body, getting the cycle going, must improve our PK.

Huet will need to repeat the season he had. The real interesting part is what happens with Aebischer who is a solid goalie as well but it seems doubtful Gainey can keep both since Abby wants 50 games and we could be looking at 5M tied up in our goalies!

The defense will need to continue to put points on the board. Overall I think our D corps is solid, especially if Komisarek can play with more confidence and Markov stays healthy.

Our forwards must find a way to score more. Zednik, Bonk, Koivu, Perezhogin, Riberio, Kovalev need to generate more offense and we need to finish more.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen. That said to build a consistent contender we need to continue to draft well, develop our youth better and make smart trades.

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07-03-2006, 08:56 PM
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There is no rush to sign anyone this year. You don't build a cup- winner by buying players (although Colorado did...). It takes time. you need a little luck in the draft and when you are close to the kill you go for it. Sign a core of players for 2-3 years and hope it turns out OK.

Has anyone looked at who will be available next year??? I wouln't want to be in Buffalo's shoes. They will be younger than the UFA crop of 2006 and probably less expensive since many GM's will have little space left. Teams wit space will do very well.

We have a few good young players, a year more will help. then sign 1 or 2 significant players next year and we will be in business. Even if would have signed Elias, we are still behind Buffalo and Ottawa for example. Carolina will be about the same. would arnott have made contenders??? No.

We have a winning team that makes the playoffs, perfect for our kids.

Actually I wouldn't mind a Roenick to lead the kids this year, 1 year plus option, no more than 2Mio. Shanny would also be good. Let's keep some space on the cap, It will pay off next year.

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07-03-2006, 09:01 PM
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Some good posts on this thread. If half the teams in the NHL are making serious mistakes and handcuffing themselves with these ludicrous contracts, should we make the same mistakes? Let them hit their max and then the smart GM's can strike at will with contracts based on actual value rather than overinflated salaries for big name UFA's.

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07-03-2006, 09:49 PM
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Some good posts on this thread. If half the teams in the NHL are making serious mistakes and handcuffing themselves with these ludicrous contracts, should we make the same mistakes? Let them hit their max and then the smart GM's can strike at will with contracts based on actual value rather than overinflated salaries for big name UFA's.
Exactly, let the smart GM's like Gainey benefit from the mistakes of the others out there who will have to dump high end talent for less in return because of Cap space problems...Gainey is going to benefit and prosper because of some poor GM's bad signing and over spending.

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