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Cammalleri/Bourque trade 1 year later

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Old
02-05-2013, 03:04 PM
  #76
Bob Cole
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Cammy has sucked ever since he had his kid. Looks like the motivation just inst there anymore. Hopefully he gets back on track, I like the guy.

I like the trade now, but absolutely hate the way it was done. Gauthier is a POS.

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02-05-2013, 03:07 PM
  #77
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Langdon Alger View Post
Bourque has a hot start every year. After 20 games last season, Flames fans were ready to pronounce him the franchise's new superstar; a month and a half later, they were dancing in the streets to see him leave.

Bottom line: Don't get used to this version of Rene Bourque. It won't last. It never does.
Please be sure to bug us about it at the end of the season if you're right. Naturally' we wouldn't expect to hear from you if you're wrong. Besides, wins early in the season are golden because they make a GM less likely to make desperation trades close to the deadline.

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02-05-2013, 03:25 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
If you take the long view of this trade, Ramo may be the one player in the deal that really matters. He's 10 years younger than Kiprosoff and has been putting up stellar numbers in the KHL for a few seasons in a row.

Sure, he may never have come over with Price playing in front of him. But Calgary may have taken care of the goaltending position in post-Kiprosoff era with a very economical and crafty move.
I don't care about the Flames' long range goaltending problems and you mustn't extrapolate KHL performance to the NHL. Let's confine ourselves to the effect on the Habs. The LW hole on the second line last season was so severe that it compromised Plekanec's stats even before Gionta was injured. Look at Plekanec now before you say that Ramo may be the one player in the deal that really matters (and without knowing who the draft pick would be). I know I wouldn't trade Bourque, Holland, and a second rounder for Cammalleri and Ramo even if you paid me a commission.

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02-05-2013, 03:29 PM
  #79
Iron Throne
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You mean the one good playoff run he had?
He had 2 great runs for us in 2 years and traded in the third

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02-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #80
HarlemsFinest
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liked/like the trade. but will always be thankful for the exciting playoffs, but especially the centennial game....disney couldn't have come up with a better script.

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02-05-2013, 05:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't care about the Flames' long range goaltending problems and you mustn't extrapolate KHL performance to the NHL. Let's confine ourselves to the effect on the Habs. The LW hole on the second line last season was so severe that it compromised Plekanec's stats even before Gionta was injured. Look at Plekanec now before you say that Ramo may be the one player in the deal that really matters (and without knowing who the draft pick would be). I know I wouldn't trade Bourque, Holland, and a second rounder for Cammalleri and Ramo even if you paid me a commission.
What about for cammy, Ramo, and a 5th rounder?

People seem to forget we also gave up a 5th rounder (Ryan Culkin).

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02-05-2013, 06:54 PM
  #82
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on tsn they were talking to max, and he was saying that bourque was playing injured last year

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Old
02-05-2013, 07:24 PM
  #83
feds91
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since trade:

Cammalleri:
19 points/ 28 games in 2011-12
4 points/ 7 games in 2012-13

Bourque:
8 points/ 38 games in 2011-12
5 points/ 8 games in 2012-13

way too early to say Habs won trade.

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02-05-2013, 07:32 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds91 View Post
since trade:

Cammalleri:
19 points/ 28 games in 2011-12
4 points/ 7 games in 2012-13

Bourque:
8 points/ 38 games in 2011-12
5 points/ 8 games in 2012-13

way too early to say Habs won trade.
I like Cammalleri when he was a habs, but considering the 2nd rounder AND most of all the cap hit difference. He actually HAVE to blow Bourque completely for this trade to be considered a tie. Right now, Bourque is doing everything you can hope from a 3.3M winger, Cammalleri is not vs his 6M price tag.

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02-05-2013, 07:34 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds91 View Post
since trade:

Cammalleri:
19 points/ 28 games in 2011-12
4 points/ 7 games in 2012-13

Bourque:
8 points/ 38 games in 2011-12
5 points/ 8 games in 2012-13

way too early to say Habs won trade.
Until Cammy doubles Bourque in goals Habs won.

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Old
02-05-2013, 07:46 PM
  #86
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Cammy is a more valuable asset than Borque. Have to see how the pick turns out to evaluate the trade, but come on, Borque's off to a good start but Cammy was a playoff machine, against Chara. He has more trade value than the guy we traded him for, as evidenced by the additional pieces even PG got for him. Holland, unfortunately, isn't likely to change the equation, so it's down to the pick for me.

Don't get me wrong. If Borque can play at this level for consistent stretches then I'll feel a hell of a lot better about the trade than I did then, but that doesn't make it a good trade.

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02-05-2013, 08:51 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Cammy is a more valuable asset than Borque. Have to see how the pick turns out to evaluate the trade, but come on, Borque's off to a good start but Cammy was a playoff machine, against Chara. He has more trade value than the guy we traded him for, as evidenced by the additional pieces even PG got for him. Holland, unfortunately, isn't likely to change the equation, so it's down to the pick for me.

Don't get me wrong. If Borque can play at this level for consistent stretches then I'll feel a hell of a lot better about the trade than I did then, but that doesn't make it a good trade.
What's the good of a playoff performer who can't even help you get there? You're going to tell me if Bourque keeps this up, you still won't call this a good trade? That's crazy. I was happy with the trade even when Bourque was doing nothing. Cammy was utterly useless last year. Bourque was just as bad at half the price.

What more do you think we could've got for a 6 million dollar goal scorer who can't even score 20 goals?

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02-05-2013, 09:02 PM
  #88
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I remember when news broke that Cammalleri had been traded. When I heard it was to Calgary, all I could think of was that the only player I would want from them is Bourque (because obviously it wouldn't be for Iggy). Then Bourque starts playing for us the way he did while Cammalleri is lighting it up in cowtown, and I'm thinking "Meh, whatever, at least he's in the west now."

On the plus side, the extras made the trade look half-stomachable (new word). Holland was underachieving and has really started picking his game up shortly before the trade, and has continued on that path. The 2nd is going to be juicy is Calgary finishes as low as it looks like they could. Ramo still hasn't stepped foot onto an NHL rink for Calgary.

As far as the main pieces go, it's a slight edge to Calgary, given how well Cammy played for them last season. The side dishes give us the overwhelming victory on that part of the trade.

All in all, I'm calling it even for now. It could potentially be a win-win-and-no-loser trade if Ramo ever comes over and plays well, and if their 2nd lands us another servicable NHL prospect to compliment Holland.

(haven't even mentioned the cap space, I definitely don't belong on HF)

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02-05-2013, 10:38 PM
  #89
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Cammalleri at 6M$ right now is already bad ...and the cap is going down next season

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02-05-2013, 10:44 PM
  #90
Madam Kadri
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Cammalleri was a 20 goals, 50 points guy who was good for 65 games a season. His pricetag? 6 million dollars. That's poor value if other not as easily tangible skills aren't in his game, and well, defense or gaining puck possesion through power is surely not on his resume. And of course, once a player starts getting "old", self-preservation becomes more and more important to them, and some of them start playing "soft". Cammalleri was exactly that.

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02-05-2013, 10:57 PM
  #91
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I hated the deal at the team because of Bourques contract length, exclusively.

But in hindsight, the Habs shifted an overpaid and slow player, who was weak both defensively and along the boards, for what looks to be a high draft pick and a player who right now looks like a big body who can add enough points. It's tough to argue against it right now, but the contract length remains scary.

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02-05-2013, 11:08 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Andrei79 View Post
I hated the deal at the team because of Bourques contract length, exclusively.

But in hindsight, the Habs shifted an overpaid and slow player, who was weak both defensively and along the boards, for what looks to be a high draft pick and a player who right now looks like a big body who can add enough points. It's tough to argue against it right now, but the contract length remains scary.
Cammy would be a prime target for our second buyout though.

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02-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Actually, he really was. His trades weren't great and getting Kaberle was just stupid.
That's not what made him bad though. It was his micromanaging and media paranoia that made him bad.
Trying to control the Montreal media is always a doomed proposition. Trying to guide the Montreal media from time to time sure, controlling it...screwed right from the start.

It was the atmosphere PG created that infested all levels of the team that made him bad. Bad for Montreal and any other high profile team where such an approach is just not going to fly.


He tried to run the Habs like it was a corporation in which every employee of the organization right down to the towel boys had signed a non-disclosure contract.
He was a PR nightmare for the tradition of the Canadiens.
This post is pretty much 100% BS.

The team got injured and sucked and he paid the price, but he was hardly bad. He made some great moves namely choosing Price over Halak, signing Cole, trading up for Tinordi, this Bourque deal, bringing Emelin and Diaz over...

If Markov had stayed healthy last year, he's still our GM. And this team that's 6-2 right now is pretty much PG's team.

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Old
02-05-2013, 11:19 PM
  #94
Teufelsdreck
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Cammalleri is supposed to be a goal scorer but all of his points thus far are assists. Bourque has 3 goals. He checks and kills penalties and is more involved in the play. Someone pointed out that the Habs threw in a 5th rounder. Remind me when that important asset starts playing for the Flames (compared with the 2nd rounder for the Flames).

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Old
02-06-2013, 12:14 AM
  #95
Forsead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdon Alger View Post
Bourque has a hot start every year. After 20 games last season, Flames fans were ready to pronounce him the franchise's new superstar; a month and a half later, they were dancing in the streets to see him leave.

Bottom line: Don't get used to this version of Rene Bourque. It won't last. It never does.
You lost alot of credibility there, after 20 games last season he had 7 pts (6 goals and 1 assist) in 20 games...

If Flames fans were really ready to pronounce him the franchise's new superstar, with 7 pts in 20 games, then maybe it's them the problem

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02-06-2013, 01:41 AM
  #96
Pr3Va1L
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Last january when the trade occured , i though it was at best a decent move. Getting rid of a 6M$/year unidimensional player who was struggling for another struggling one with a cheaper cap size but 2 more years on his contract. Both same age.
We got a 2nd round pick, and this is where i think , we might end up as big time winner on this deal.

Calgary looks really bad right now . 4 pts in 6 games , good for the last place in the league.
Personnally i think they will finish bottom 5 .
With one of the most deep draft in years coming up , we might get a really solid prospect with that pick. One with the same kind of upside that Collberg have.

And even if it would have been a straight up swap i would still be pleased with it

I know it's early but ..
Cammalleri : 6gp-0g-2a-2pts, 6 shots, 17:39 TOI/G
Bourque : 8gp-3g-2a-5pts, 21 shots, 17:13 TOI/G

Cammalleri : 2 years left at 6M/year
Bourque : 4 years left at 3.33M/year

What do you guys think? and what kind of player (names) are we looking for as an early 2nd round pick ?
Oh ..and yeah we got Patrick Holland too on this deal . Flames got Karri Ramo.
*Late* 2nd round pick.

Snake draft guys...

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Old
02-06-2013, 01:56 AM
  #97
Bleeker
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Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
*Late* 2nd round pick.

Snake draft guys...
Obvious troll.

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Old
02-06-2013, 02:40 AM
  #98
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Wasn't a big fan of the trade then, but as it stands right now I have no problem at all with it.
Gauthier is gone, we've got Holland and a 2nd, added cap space, Bourque is playing well at the moment.
Getting rid of Cammalleri was a step in the right direction in rebuilding the team, Ramo wasn't going to sign here anyway.

Now the Flames could salvageg something out of the trade if they flip Cammalleri for something useful and get Ramo to come over and take over for them in net.


The 11-12 season was horrible in so many ways but it as things are turning out it actually put the team in a pretty good situation.

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Old
02-06-2013, 06:02 AM
  #99
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I liked the trade then and I like it now,

But,

I wish people wouldn't refer to goal-scorers as "one-dimensional". People did the same thing with Ryder. Hello ?!?!? Goal-scoring is the most important dimension for a forward.

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:58 AM
  #100
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feds91 View Post
since trade:

Cammalleri:
19 points/ 28 games in 2011-12
4 points/ 7 games in 2012-13

Bourque:
8 points/ 38 games in 2011-12
5 points/ 8 games in 2012-13

way too early to say Habs won trade.
Just comparing the players 1 for 1 and ignoring the other 4 assets, which the Habs won on both(2013 2nd >>>> 2012 5th, Holland >>> Ramo), Bourque brings more facets to his game that Cammy can't touch...

-bigger and much more physical
-can kill penalities
-cap hit is almost half 6 mil vs 3.3 mil

So if their points are even at the end of the season we still win the trade easily.

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