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OT: Pronger-Neidermayer best defensive pairing ever?

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Old
07-04-2006, 08:10 AM
  #26
Prrebel
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"Pronger isn't as flashy with the end-to-end rushes, nor the unquestioned most physical defenceman of his era (Chara and Stevens), and not as consistent offensively or as smart when it comes to taking needless penalties - but he's close. Similar defencemen in a lot of ways."

The only similaritys you described is their differences.

I would put the Robinson/Savard tandom up against any two defencemen to ever play the game. Orr may have been the greatest player ever, but as a defensive pairing goes, Larry & Serge are head and sholders above them all.

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Old
07-04-2006, 08:11 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Robinson was like a starburst. He was great for a couple years, but all that hockey got to him by the 80s. He wasn't the same player, not nearly as physical or aggressive. Pronger has flaws too, but they are definitely comparable.

Savard was a very good offensive defenseman early in his career until he broke his leg. He was never physical and later in his career he got by on smarts. Neidermayer is twice the player he was later in his career.

As a pairing though, I would go with Pronger-Neids. Montreal's strength was the Big Three, not the Big Two.

Your memory is a little sketchy. Okay i'm, being kind - very sketchy!! Robinson was like a starburst? Puhleeze!!

1974-75 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 14 47 61 76 11 0 4 4 27
1975-76 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 10 30 40 59 13 3 3 6 10
1976-77 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 19 66 85 45 14 2 10 12 12
1977-78 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 13 52 65 39 15 4 17 21 6
1978-79 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 16 45 61 33 16 6 9 15 8
1979-80 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 14 61 75 39 10 0 4 4 2
1980-81 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 12 38 50 37 3 0 1 1 2
1981-82 Montreal Canadiens NHL 71 12 47 59 41 5 0 1 1 8
1982-83 Montreal Canadiens NHL 71 14 49 63 33 3 0 0 0 2
1983-84 Montreal Canadiens NHL 74 9 34 43 39 15 0 5 5 22
1984-85 Montreal Canadiens NHL 76 14 33 47 44 12 3 8 11 8
1985-86 Montreal Canadiens NHL 78 19 63 82 39 20 0 13 13 22
1986-87 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 13 37 50 44 17 3 17 20

13 straight "starburst" seasons with 43+ points - only one season in that span when he didn't score at least ten goals. His two 80+ seasons were ten seasons apart. Mr. Starburst was still averaging more than a PPG in the playoffs 14 years after scoring that huge OT goal against Philly in the 1973 playoffs. Perhaps Robinson wasn't as aggressive by the time he was 35, but who would be as physically domninant as Larry was after 15 years in the league? You honstly think when Pronger is 35 he is going to be as physically dominant as Larry was in his prime? He's not at 31, let alone when he's 35.


As for Savard being half the player Nieds is; you don't play really close attention to Nieds, nor did you follow Savard closely I gather. That's ridiculous. If your idea of a dominant defenceman starts and ends with how quickly a player can carry the puck up the ice, Niedermayer and Coffey are two of the three greatest defencemen of all time. Folks that really know the game feel differently. There's a reason why Langway won Norris trophies while Coffey was outpointing him by close to 100 points each season BTW, and when it comes to offensive stats, Savard was very close to Nieds most seasons.

The only thing the leg injuries did was make Savard that much more effective in his own zone. He'd let Larry make the big rushes, and was rarely out of position. No; he wasn't as graceful as skater as he was at 22, but he was the best defensive defenceman of his era. As for him losing his offensive touch after the injury; again; you have a poor memory.

Serge's best offensive seasons were from 74-78, after his two broken legs. In 1974-75 Savard had 20 goals and 40 assists, his best offensive season. In Niedermayer's top offensive season, he had 63 points, and he can't touch Savard when it comes to play in his defensive zone - not even close.

So slightly better offensively, much prettier rushing the puck, about half as accomplished in hius own zone. You take the pretty skater - I'll take the results (and 8 Stanley cups).


Saying you'd take Pronger and Niedermayer as a pair over Savard/Robinson is a cruel joke, expecially considering they've never played a game together yet. Let's dismiss the four straight Cup and nine seasons Larry and Serge played together for the flavour of the month.

Comical really.

Sad to see us so quickly dismiss our former greats.


Last edited by turnbuckle*: 07-04-2006 at 08:25 AM.
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Old
07-04-2006, 08:15 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prrebel View Post
"Pronger isn't as flashy with the end-to-end rushes, nor the unquestioned most physical defenceman of his era (Chara and Stevens), and not as consistent offensively or as smart when it comes to taking needless penalties - but he's close. Similar defencemen in a lot of ways."

The only similaritys you described is their differences.

I would put the Robinson/Savard tandom up against any two defencemen to ever play the game. Orr may have been the greatest player ever, but as a defensive pairing goes, Larry & Serge are head and sholders above them all.


what?

Were they not both physical?
Could they not both rush the puck and provide offence?
Did they both not take penalties?

Of course they did. Larry was just a little better at it (except taking the bad penalties).

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Old
07-04-2006, 09:13 AM
  #29
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RTL, if there was a smarter D man than Serge Savard, I haven't seen him. I've heard Doug Harvey was the best at controlling the game, but I didn't have the pleasure. Savard didn't skate the puck like Niedermayer, he didn't have to. A pass moves at a higher speed. As a pairing over 10 years, give me #'s 19 and 18 any day of the week. if not for the leg injuries, Savard would have been just a notch below Orr. I believe he was that good. PLus, these 2 haven't played a shift together yet, in fact they may not play together.

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Old
07-04-2006, 09:28 AM
  #30
tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Your memory is a little sketchy. Okay i'm, being kind - very sketchy!! Robinson was like a starburst? Puhleeze!!

1974-75 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 14 47 61 76 11 0 4 4 27
1975-76 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 10 30 40 59 13 3 3 6 10
1976-77 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 19 66 85 45 14 2 10 12 12
1977-78 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 13 52 65 39 15 4 17 21 6
1978-79 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 16 45 61 33 16 6 9 15 8
1979-80 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 14 61 75 39 10 0 4 4 2
1980-81 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 12 38 50 37 3 0 1 1 2
1981-82 Montreal Canadiens NHL 71 12 47 59 41 5 0 1 1 8
1982-83 Montreal Canadiens NHL 71 14 49 63 33 3 0 0 0 2
1983-84 Montreal Canadiens NHL 74 9 34 43 39 15 0 5 5 22
1984-85 Montreal Canadiens NHL 76 14 33 47 44 12 3 8 11 8
1985-86 Montreal Canadiens NHL 78 19 63 82 39 20 0 13 13 22
1986-87 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 13 37 50 44 17 3 17 20

13 straight "starburst" seasons with 43+ points - only one season in that span when he didn't score at least ten goals. His two 80+ seasons were ten seasons apart. Mr. Starburst was still averaging more than a PPG in the playoffs 14 years after scoring that huge OT goal against Philly in the 1973 playoffs. Perhaps Robinson wasn't as aggressive by the time he was 35, but who would be as physically domninant as Larry was after 15 years in the league? You honstly think when Pronger is 35 he is going to be as physically dominant as Larry was in his prime? He's not at 31, let alone when he's 35.


As for Savard being half the player Nieds is; you don't play really close attention to Nieds, nor did you follow Savard closely I gather. That's ridiculous. If your idea of a dominant defenceman starts and ends with how quickly a player can carry the puck up the ice, Niedermayer and Coffey are two of the three greatest defencemen of all time. Folks that really know the game feel differently. There's a reason why Langway won Norris trophies while Coffey was outpointing him by close to 100 points each season BTW, and when it comes to offensive stats, Savard was very close to Nieds most seasons.

The only thing the leg injuries did was make Savard that much more effective in his own zone. He'd let Larry make the big rushes, and was rarely out of position. No; he wasn't as graceful as skater as he was at 22, but he was the best defensive defenceman of his era. As for him losing his offensive touch after the injury; again; you have a poor memory.

Serge's best offensive seasons were from 74-78, after his two broken legs. In 1974-75 Savard had 20 goals and 40 assists, his best offensive season. In Niedermayer's top offensive season, he had 63 points, and he can't touch Savard when it comes to play in his defensive zone - not even close.

So slightly better offensively, much prettier rushing the puck, about half as accomplished in hius own zone. You take the pretty skater - I'll take the results (and 8 Stanley cups).


Saying you'd take Pronger and Niedermayer as a pair over Savard/Robinson is a cruel joke, expecially considering they've never played a game together yet. Let's dismiss the four straight Cup and nine seasons Larry and Serge played together for the flavour of the month.

Comical really.

Sad to see us so quickly dismiss our former greats.
I think I touched a nerve...

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Old
07-04-2006, 10:28 AM
  #31
BOB the Builder
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best defensive pair ever was clearly the Quintal-Traverse combo

now where's my medication

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Old
07-04-2006, 11:06 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazz View Post
My guess is that they'll split them up...Spread out the power because they are both so good that if they are together then they may not be as good...who knows.
I would expect them to definitely split them up. With each of them playing close to 30 mins a night, one of Pronger or Niedermayer will almost always be on the ice for Anaheim.

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