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Sharks at Ducks Extremely Fancy Photoshop/Superbowl Rage edition 7:00pm PST

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02-05-2013, 04:25 PM
  #926
Phu
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
And those games, the top lines had nearly 5 minutes of PP time, like I was just saying...
You expect them to play 16 minutes of ES like Handzus, 5 minutes of PP, and then over a minute on the PK? That's gonna kill them.
The top lines should play more minutes than Handzus, including PP. He had the same time as them TOTAL time.

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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
It's pretty tough to watch Koala & Company fiddle so much with the lines after the start the Sharks got off to. It's no coincidence they've got worse as the lines have become increasingly ridiculous.
When I saw Burish out there with Jumbo it was ...



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02-05-2013, 04:30 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
It's pretty tough to watch Koala & Company fiddle so much with the lines after the start the Sharks got off to. It's no coincidence they've got worse as the lines have become increasingly ridiculous.
This. I've never understood the idea of shuffling lines 5 times a game just because a line goes cold for a couple shifts/period. The other thing that's confusing is that koala stubbornly let's players like clowe, nemo, Murray "play out of a funk" but will not do the same with a given line.

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02-05-2013, 04:37 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
When you consider this, the only plausible explanations are that 1) one or more of the studs are sick and are being held back, or 2) handzus is getting so hammered that he can't change and ends up staying out beyond his shifts.

Given that we've seen zeus appear after TV timeouts, I'm really suspicious it's 1.
Look up "false dichotomy"

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02-05-2013, 04:56 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Like I said earlier, I like advanced stats, but it isn't the be-all-end-all in judging a player. He gets the most offensive zone starts but I noticed this season especially, when the top two lines are done applying offensive pressure, they get off the ice and Handzus goes on. It's pretty hard to get a positive on-ice corsi when you're playing defense on the transition. Clowe has the 2nd best corsi-on among the forwards, and you can't tell me that he's been great.
Not to mention there are 2 other people on his line. Every game I've watched so far, he definitely hasn't looked like the weakest link on his line. Those have gone to either Wingels or Galiardi.

And those games, the top lines had nearly 5 minutes of PP time, like I was just saying...
You expect them to play 16 minutes of ES like Handzus, 5 minutes of PP, and then over a minute on the PK? That's gonna kill them.
Clowe hasn't been great, but he doesn't detrimentally affect his linemates either the way Handzus does. Wingels and Galiardi have both been decent when they get shifts away from Handzus, and even manage to look dangerous when they get a rare shift with Gomez. And no, Zeus does not play defense on the transition, he's been getting sheltered like crazy and he still gets smoked by pretty much everyone he's up against. Opposing coaches have been jumping at every chance to get their top guys out whenever Handzus is out and away from JT and Couture.

The Sharks have been barely treading water 5 on 5 because way too many minutes have been given to Handzus while someone like Gomez rides the pine. The Stuart-Vlasic pairing has also been problematic since neither of them are good at advancing the puck, limiting JT's time in the offensive zone.

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02-05-2013, 05:08 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by BadVooDoo View Post
Clowe hasn't been great, but he doesn't detrimentally affect his linemates either the way Handzus does. Wingels and Galiardi have both been decent when they get shifts away from Handzus, and even manage to look dangerous when they get a rare shift with Gomez. And no, Zeus does not play defense on the transition, he's been getting sheltered like crazy and he still gets smoked by pretty much everyone he's up against. Opposing coaches have been jumping at every chance to get their top guys out whenever Handzus is out and away from JT and Couture.

The Sharks have been barely treading water 5 on 5 because way too many minutes have been given to Handzus while someone like Gomez rides the pine. The Stuart-Vlasic pairing has also been problematic since neither of them are good at advancing the puck, limiting JT's time in the offensive zone.
I disagree. The play dies every time he touches the puck, worst of which are the high turnovers he loves to make. Notice that whenever he has the puck he completely stops moving. His strength is supposed to be along the boards but when he's there, he just stands still waiting for guys to pressure him and then he loses it. He's also easily the slowest forward on the team, even slower than Handzus and only a step faster than Murray. His poor conditioning only makes his skating worse, which gets amplified when he gets caught out for too long.

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02-05-2013, 05:39 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
Look up "false dichotomy"
I did consider this, which is why I hedged with "plausible" ... maybe that wasn't the right word. Maybe "likely" is a better word. I mean I suppose it is possible that coaching incompetence is putting him out there as much as thornton but past evidence is that this coach is not that incompetent.

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02-05-2013, 05:48 PM
  #932
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Did anyone else think clowe got shafted with the instigator?

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02-05-2013, 05:48 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
The top lines should play more minutes than Handzus, including PP. He had the same time as them TOTAL time.
It seems like you're descending into two different arguments.

1) Top lines should play more minutes than Handzus.

That goes along with my first point. If the Thornton, Marleau, and the likes play more minutes than Handzus total, that means they'll be playing over 21 minutes per game. That's crazy in a 48 game schedule.

2) Handzus should play less ES minutes. They shouldn't allocate those minutes to the top-lines, they should spread them out along the bottom-6.

That probably has to do with familiarity. Handzus understands the system better than guys like Galiardi and Burish. Not to mention, as bad as people think Handzus has been, I think the others have been worse. Like SJeasy noted, Handzus is slow (not as slow as Clowe though), but if he gets to the puck first, his board play is great. He's been pretty good at eating up minutes in the defensive zone, allowing the top guys to rest. He's also better defensively than the other bottom-6 forwards. Players like Burish, Desjardins, and Wingels have been pretty mediocre so far.

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Did anyone else think clowe got shafted with the instigator?
Nope, that was a good call.
On that note, did Drew whine about Clowe fighting like he did when O'Byrne fought Stuart? I was watching the Anaheim feed.

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02-05-2013, 05:55 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Nope, that was a good call.
On that note, did Drew whine about Clowe fighting like he did when O'Byrne fought Stuart? I was watching the Anaheim feed.
Not that I recall... but sometimes I block him out. It was a pretty worthless fight anyway, Clowe's heart didn't really seem to be in it and no real good punches were even landed. Seemed a little too routine to be effective as a deterrent.

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02-05-2013, 06:01 PM
  #935
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Not that I recall... but sometimes I block him out. It was a pretty worthless fight anyway, Clowe's heart didn't really seem to be in it and no real good punches were even landed. Seemed a little too routine to be effective as a deterrent.
It wasn't a deterrent at all. Like I keep saying, Clowe fighting only helps the other team because it gives them energy and puts more work on our other 5 top-6ers while he's relaxing in the box. Seriously, 9 times out of 10 Clowe fights some bonehead 4th liner to pad his penalty minutes stat because he loves that tough guy title so much.

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02-05-2013, 06:03 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post

Nope, that was a good call.
On that note, did Drew whine about Clowe fighting like he did when O'Byrne fought Stuart? I was watching the Anaheim feed.
I see it all the ****ing time and it doesn't get called. So, was it the right call? Yes. According to the rule book anyways.

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02-05-2013, 06:37 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
It seems like you're descending into two different arguments.

1) Top lines should play more minutes than Handzus.

That goes along with my first point. If the Thornton, Marleau, and the likes play more minutes than Handzus total, that means they'll be playing over 21 minutes per game. That's crazy in a 48 game schedule.
I know this is oversimplifying it a bit, but the difference between the top liners playing 18 and handzus playing 18, or the top line playing 21 and handzus playing 15 is pretty huge. It doesn't have to be that much of a change, but there were certainly opportunities to deploy the thornton line that were not taken.

Is that crazy in a 48 game schedule? The even-minutes game was not a back to back game (the top line played more in the back to back game). Is it any more crazy than what other teams are facing/doing? Most other teams have their top lines out 19-20+. Thornton has been as low as 16(!) minutes this season. That's very suspicious.

Bottom line is our top top guys are not seeing enough ice and we're not getting good enough possession play from the rest of the roster to justify it. Especially when we are missing a top player, it's curious to not ride the other top players.

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02-05-2013, 07:50 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
I know this is oversimplifying it a bit, but the difference between the top liners playing 18 and handzus playing 18, or the top line playing 21 and handzus playing 15 is pretty huge. It doesn't have to be that much of a change, but there were certainly opportunities to deploy the thornton line that were not taken.

Is that crazy in a 48 game schedule? The even-minutes game was not a back to back game (the top line played more in the back to back game). Is it any more crazy than what other teams are facing/doing? Most other teams have their top lines out 19-20+. Thornton has been as low as 16(!) minutes this season. That's very suspicious.

Bottom line is our top top guys are not seeing enough ice and we're not getting good enough possession play from the rest of the roster to justify it. Especially when we are missing a top player, it's curious to not ride the other top players.
The only time I've noticed the top guys getting around 16 minutes are on back-to-backs to save energy or on blow-out games to save energy and potentially build bottom-6 chemistry. Teams running their top guys for 20+ minutes a night aren't doing that intentially; it's because they have no other choice. We might have to do that if we start losing a ton of games, but hopefully that won't happen. We have to be resting our players whenever we can, ESPECIALLY with the shortened season. 18 minutes is just about right for the top-6.

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02-05-2013, 07:58 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
I disagree. The play dies every time he touches the puck, worst of which are the high turnovers he loves to make. Notice that whenever he has the puck he completely stops moving. His strength is supposed to be along the boards but when he's there, he just stands still waiting for guys to pressure him and then he loses it. He's also easily the slowest forward on the team, even slower than Handzus and only a step faster than Murray. His poor conditioning only makes his skating worse, which gets amplified when he gets caught out for too long.
The numbers just don't support that perception, he's been putting up solid possession numbers and getting scoring chances. While part of that is undoubtedly been due to the fact that Couture has been lights out so far, he hasn't been negatively affecting his lines performance either.

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02-05-2013, 08:10 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
The only time I've noticed the top guys getting around 16 minutes are on back-to-backs to save energy or on blow-out games to save energy and potentially build bottom-6 chemistry.
That 16 minute game was the vancouver one. And it was only thornton, go figure

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02-05-2013, 08:30 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
I know this is oversimplifying it a bit, but the difference between the top liners playing 18 and handzus playing 18, or the top line playing 21 and handzus playing 15 is pretty huge. It doesn't have to be that much of a change, but there were certainly opportunities to deploy the thornton line that were not taken.

Is that crazy in a 48 game schedule? The even-minutes game was not a back to back game (the top line played more in the back to back game). Is it any more crazy than what other teams are facing/doing? Most other teams have their top lines out 19-20+. Thornton has been as low as 16(!) minutes this season. That's very suspicious.

Bottom line is our top top guys are not seeing enough ice and we're not getting good enough possession play from the rest of the roster to justify it. Especially when we are missing a top player, it's curious to not ride the other top players.
It's called the flu.

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02-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #942
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Can't seem to find anything if Boyle is playing tonight for you guys. Any update on his flu?

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02-05-2013, 09:19 PM
  #943
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Can't seem to find anything if Boyle is playing tonight for you guys. Any update on his flu?
Might want to post in the GDT for tonight.

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02-05-2013, 09:28 PM
  #944
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boneheaded mistake. Thanks.

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02-05-2013, 11:05 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Can't tell if serious....

Can't handle the puck? You have to be kidding. He's the only guy on the team who can...
Wow Havlat is really proving your point right now ....

Bobbles puck right in front of net, then turns it over high for a goal against. Plus he fumbled a chance in the 1st as well.

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02-06-2013, 01:47 AM
  #946
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
It's called the flu.
Welcome to my point

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Wow Havlat is really proving your point right now ....

Bobbles puck right in front of net, then turns it over high for a goal against. Plus he fumbled a chance in the 1st as well.
He has been the recipient of some very poor -- well not poor, but late is more the word -- passes. He has to rush his moves and loses control. Playing with couture he gets those passes in stride with space.

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02-06-2013, 01:48 AM
  #947
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This reminds me of something I thought during the game: Never separate Couture and Havlat.

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02-06-2013, 01:50 AM
  #948
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This reminds me of something I thought during the game: Never separate Couture and Havlat.
Don't worry about how good they'll look since they'll never stay together again.

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02-06-2013, 01:56 AM
  #949
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Don't worry about how good they'll look since they'll never stay together again.
Mother****er, why did I comment in this GDT.

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02-06-2013, 01:59 AM
  #950
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Mother****er, why did I comment in this GDT.
Cuz you love my GDT's so much. Obviously.

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